ok. last group didnt work out. so i joined a new crew and im running Carrion Crown....i know the players manual adds dhampir, orc and changeling......any others? i promis this is the one i will run. i just really like this these threads. and am assuming responses from at least 2 people who ususaly help me
I didnt see Orc added, just Changeling and Dhampir
in the players CC players guide, page 6 under "other races"
Changeling: When hags trick members of other races
into child-bearing unions, changelings are the result.
Always female and often sporting different colored eyes,
changelings are usually raised by unwitting parents
of their father’s race, most unaware of the unnatural
circumstances of their daughters’ birth. Details on this
new race can be found in Pathfinder Adventure Path #43.
Dhampir: Resulting from the unlikely union of a
vampire and a living human, dhampirs are graced with
long life, an elegant appearance, and unnatural ref lexes,
but are cursed with an aversion to bright light and an
aff inity to negative energy. In Ustalav, dhampirs are
more common than nearly anywhere else in the Inner
Sea region, but they are nevertheless seen and treated as
monsters. Dhampir stats can be found on page 89 of the
Bestiary 2.
Orc: While half-orcs are a standard option for PCs,
Ustalav’s proximity to Belkzen opens up full-blooded
orcs as legitimate possibilities for player characters. Of
the non-standard races presented in this section, orcs face
perhaps the largest and most widespread social stigma in
Ustalav and will present serious obstacles for a player of
this race, in both rural and urban environments
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I think those were it. Playing a full blood orc may be difficult given their history in the area. We have a Paladin from Lastwall in our group who has a hatred of orcs so that would have been difficult. The other two would be interesting but none of our players seemed interested in them so we ended up with one Elf, three Humans, and one Halfling. A good mix.
Good luck with CC! It has been enjoyable so far.
I think those were it. Playing a full blood orc may be difficult given their history in the area. We have a Paladin from Lastwall in our group who has a hatred of orcs so that would have been difficult. The other two would be interesting but none of our players seemed interested in them so we ended up with one Elf, three Humans, and one Halfling. A good mix.
Good luck with CC! It has been enjoyable so far.
i had a friend try to run it in another group. we made it to book 3 and quit. not sure if he ran it properly. im giving it a shot for my new crew. i hope to do better than my other buddy. of course it was his first anything in PF. and he chose to DM. lol
Ustalav isn't really built to handle the traditional fantasy races. (I cannot think of a single Dwarf NPC in the whole campaign, for example.) Including the LotR-style races clashes with the feel of Gothic. The interesting "race choices" are really just different types of humans.
That being said, the races I would consider:
- Taldan
- Varisian
- Sczarni
- Kellid
- Changeling
- Dhampir
I know the player's guide mentions "orc" (and "halforc"), but actually looking at the campaign, that would make a poor, poor choice. If a PC wants to embrace the same feel as an Orc, I would recommend that he play a Kellid. (Which, incidentally, is what one of my PCs is doing.)
I think half-orc is fine, as long as you give the PC a little bit of a harder time interacting with the public. I think it is common knowledge that half-orcs are usually the product of rape and don't really bear personally responsibility for (1) who they are or (2) what their orc fathers did. But they would still receive frostier receptions. Am I missing something? I do have a half-orc in my party, so it would be good to know.
well i always allow any core race. im more curious about the ones in the bestiaries
- Taldan
- Sczarni
- Kellid
what books are these in?
what books are these in?
They're human ethnicities. You can find details in the Inner Sea Primer or the Inner Sea World Guide.
Taldans make up the population of most of the big nations of Avistan (or, at least, the nations that like to think of themselves as important). Taldor, Cheliax, Andoran, and the like.
The Sczarni are the Varisian mafia, basically. (And Varisians are the natives are Varisia - basically Roma/Wanderers/Gypsies.)
Kellids are barbarians, in the mold of Conan.
Yeah, the Sczarni are really a criminal subtype of ethnic Varisians. My understanding is that a lot of Ustalavians are ethnically Varisian.
I think half-orc is fine, as long as you give the PC a little bit of a harder time interacting with the public. I think it is common knowledge that half-orcs are usually the product of rape and don't really bear personally responsibility for (1) who they are or (2) what their orc fathers did. But they would still receive frostier receptions. Am I missing something? I do have a half-orc in my party, so it would be good to know.
Did you read Player's Guide? Here's what it says about Half-Orcs:
Half-orcs are an extraordinary sight in Ustalav, and
outside the seedier side of Ustalav’s many urban centers,
half-orcs are most often found along the nation’s
western border. The Whispering Tyrant ruled Ustalav
for nearly a millennium as master of the vast orc hordes
of Belkzen, and even a thousand years after the Shining
Crusade defeated him and drove his armies back into the
wastelands, the residual bloodlines caused by generations
of orc attacks on human settlements still pop up in even
the most prestigious of families. Though Sczarni are
typically capable of defending themselves and wary of
outsiders, some vulnerable caravans have been known
to hire the occasional half-orc guard to ensure that
they have the brawn on hand to counter any unexpected
resistance from the nation’s darker denizens. Despite
this, half-orcs are seen as monsters by most Ustalavs, and
a half-orc in any Ustalavic setting is often the subject of
extreme prejudice.
Bolded for emphasis. And that sentence makes me think that full-blooded Orcs would be attacked on sight anywhere in Ustalav. Which begs the question why suggest Orcs as a playable racE?
what books are these in?
They're human ethnicities. You can find details in the Inner Sea Primer or the Inner Sea World Guide.
Taldans make up the population of most of the big nations of Avistan (or, at least, the nations that like to think of themselves as important). Taldor, Cheliax, Andoran, and the like.
The Sczarni are the Varisian mafia, basically. (And Varisians are the natives are Varisia - basically Roma/Wanderers/Gypsies.)
Kellids are barbarians, in the mold of Conan.
ross, would u recommend any other races due to proximity of the start of the quest. any player races in the bestiaries?
ross, would u recommend any other races due to proximity of the start of the quest. any player races in the bestiaries?
Why do you emphasize "proximity to quest-start"? The plot-hook specifically mentions that the PCs could have traveled from extremely far away. This isn't like Curse of the Crimson Throne, Council of Thieves, or Kingmaker where the PCs are supposed to be locals. Proximity is explictly called out to be irrelevant by the Player's Guide.
And, to explicitly answer your question about bestiaries: I would not allow any of them, with the possible exception of Aasimar.
The mood of Carrion Crown is a xenophobic Gothic Horror (read the chapter on Ravengro in book 1, or the mob-justice parts of book 2 for clear examples of this). You are of course allowed to do whatever you want with your homegame, but in my opinion, you ruin the module if you allow "weird" player characters.
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Honestly, you could allow any starting race into Carrion Crown - as noted in the Player's Guide, the PCs are former associates of the professor, and may have come from far-off lands to mourn his death. Whatever you allow, include it in the story. If a player chooses an unusual race as part of a character concept, hear them out and work with them to incorporate it instead of dismissing it outright (if they're picking a race purely because they want the stats, and they're not willing to make it part of the story, then you can shut them down).
An odd race should provoke interesting reactions from the surrounding NPCs. Don't allow a player to pick an orc if the first thing you're going to do is have a mob of townsfolk storm the party in an orc-murdering rage, but don't allow said orc to go by unnoticed. Perhaps this example orc could travel with the party under the deception that he's a "spoil of war" from a previous conflict, or a few ranks in Disguise (or the ability to cast Disguise Self) could do the trick.
Ustalav is primarily inhabited by humans of the Varisian ethnicity (although one of a far less nomadic bent than their Varisia kin), with hints of barbaric Kellids to the north and Taldorins/Cheliaxians intermingling along the coast. They are an insular people, and even core races like elves, dwarves, halflings, etc, will be seen as unusual. Less frightful townsfolk may approach and ask to touch an elf's ears or a dwarf's beard. They may boast of their (completely incorrect) knowledge of the character's race ("Why, everyone knows that halflings are just tiny elves, and there's no such thing as a dwarven lady!")
I'm currently running a party through Carrion Crown, and a few players made odd choices for races that have worked out well - for a time the party contained a dwarf, an elf, a dhampir, a tengu, and an aasmair (plus a token human). The alien nature of the party helped to drive home the feeling of isolation, yet each has a way to interact with the common human townsfolk (the dhampire disguised himself, the aasmair was a knight from Lastwall, and the tengu wore a plague doctor's mask to hide his beak). Oddly enough, as players have moved on to new characters, the party now is 3/4th human.
Anyway, I hope that helps!
ross, would u recommend any other races due to proximity of the start of the quest. any player races in the bestiaries?Why do you emphasize "proximity to quest-start"? The plot-hook specifically mentions that the PCs could have traveled from extremely far away. This isn't like Curse of the Crimson Throne, Council of Thieves, or Kingmaker where the PCs are supposed to be locals. Proximity is explictly called out to be irrelevant by the Player's Guide.
And, to explicitly answer your question about bestiaries: I would not allow any of them, with the possible exception of Aasimar.
The mood of Carrion Crown is a xenophobic Gothic Horror (read the chapter on Ravengro in book 1, or the mob-justice parts of book 2 for clear examples of this). You are of course allowed to do whatever you want with your homegame, but in my opinion, you ruin the module if you allow "weird" player characters.
u have a strong point sir. i will just go with races in the players guide
Did you read Player's Guide? Here's what it says about Half-Orcs:
Despite this, half-orcs are seen as monsters by most Ustalavs, and
a half-orc in any Ustalavic setting is often the subject of
extreme prejudice.
Yeah, I read that, and I'm certainly playing that there is significant prejudice against the PC. But I also think that "extreme prejudice" is a bit much, so I'm not making it impossible for the PC to function. She does travel in disguise.
also i think ill add tiefling beause the whole fiendish element would go well with horror
You can have the half-orc have the Pass for Human feat, giving them essentially a +20 on disguise checks to pass for human.
I have an idea for an orc character for this - a wandering beggar, broken in mind and body from some of the eldritch horrors plaguing Ustalav. He makes somewhat of a living fashioning and selling crude masks, one of which he wears at all times. Because of his low station and half-thought out disguise, most people give him a pass (though he is often the first to be run out of town if something bad happens).
A dhampire or changeling could have connections to the characters in book . . . 4 or 5? with the hags and the vampires.
I kind of like the idea of giving each character something to hide. Race could easily be one of those things. As Erik Freund noted, xenophobia is a recurring theme in the adventures. Making the characters a weird race gives them something to hide even from other players, possibly, and can help underscore that theme through NPC interaction.
If you are pulling themes from Lovecraft, what about the theme of hidden family legacy, or a taint in the bloodline? Half-Orcs, Changelings, or Dhampires might not know what they are, or the full extent of their history or powers, giving the players something personal to discover through the course of the adventure. What will they do when they find they are as much a monster as the things they fight?
I haven't actually run it, though, so it may be more trouble than its worth :P