So again a noob question I'm sure.
I made a wizard with high int and cha but pretty low strength and dex basically no bonus for either 10 and 11. I really wanted all the int bonus for spells and cha for skills.
Sooooooooooooo in doing that my AC is 10, does that seem right? I'm fine with it if it is I wanted to make a true squishy with as much spells as possible, but if I made a mistake and get better AC then of course I'll take it LOL
Anyway thanks for the help
Dug
Assuming you are Medium size, then yes, your AC will be 10 if you have no armor and no Dexterity modifier (and no feats or special abilities to raise your AC, of course). In several levels wizards often have defenses that allow them to ignore AC for the most part, but for the time being, if you are worried about getting hit, I would suggest the spells mage armor, shield, and vanish.
Yep. That sounds right.
Mage armor and shield are your friends. You can use wands to free up your spell slots if you have enough gold. Mostly though learn to duck and hide. Being prone may be embarrassing, but it's a good way to survive until you can buy some AC enhancing magic items.
Dex is a decent stat for wizards, mainly for initiative but also for Ref save and AC. But it's not mandatory, and 11 is enough.
You can use Mage Armor Spell and Shield Spell and raise your AC to 18. Mage armor is a basic spell. Shield is useful, but not as good, due to duration.
In the long run, AC is not a good way to defend for Wizards. You are better using ilusions to protect yourself (invisibility, greater invisibility, blur, and, specially, Mirror Image, which is the best defensive spell). You can also get around most attacks with Levitate or Fly, or Spider Climb.
If you want to focus on AC, you can be half decent. A Gnome Mage can have AC 22 in a given encounter at lvl 1, which is probably the best AC in his party, but it's often not worth it.
Dex is more than a decent stat for wizards. It's easily any combat wizard's second most important stat, and in fact I'll boost dex at the expense of getting the highest possible int.
Dex not only helps with AC, it also gives bonuses to ranged spell attacks. My wizards frequently buff themselves with "cat's grace" before combat for this reason.
Mage Armor and Shield will give you some flex room for an encounter or two at early levels(boosting AC to 18).
Positioning will also help a lot during the early levels as well, though as time goes on it will become an issue, as at some point, something is going to get to make a full attack on you(ranged or otherwise), and you will be very dead afterward!
Without a decent AC, you probably will want to devote more than the usual amounts of your magic towards keeping yourself safe.
Edit:
Looks like everyone basically chimed in and said the same thing!
Kewl good things to know, I do have mage amor and shield, I'm going to check out vanish, hmm might up my dex by one point also, thanks all for the quick response you all rock...
Dex is more than a decent stat for wizards. It's easily any combat wizard's second most important stat, and in fact I'll boost dex at the expense of getting the highest possible int.
Dex not only helps with AC, it also gives bonuses to ranged spell attacks. My wizards frequently buff themselves with "cat's grace" before combat for this reason.
Me too. I agree. My Sorcerer second best stat is DEX, and actually I have a +4 dex belt but a +2 Cha/int headband. I'm in love with Scorching ray and Enervation, so that might explains it too. :)
However, it's not a necessary stat in every caster build. You *might* drop it to 10 (never to 8 imho), if you want some other stat for some reason. In the OP case, he wanted CHA for diplomatic skills, and he need to take the points from somewhere, Dex is a possibility. It's not the best option, but it's not an umplayable character.
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one thing to consider when thinking about upping your ac. you will be busy buffing your party and yourself. you only get one standard action a round. would you be better off casting shield on yourself or a wall spell between you and your enemies or haste on your entire party so they can quickly intercept the enemies. long duration buff spells are nice if you can get them up before a fight. another thing to consider. invisibility. normal low level invisibility is amazing for a buffing mage. hasting, enlarging, buffing, and casting your wall spells do not break your invisibility who needs ac when no one can see you. one of the most powerful uses of this is in the case of a summoning mage. let me walk you through this:
i keldor the maginificient (great mage name) cast invisibility it easiliy lasts through the entire combat at 1 min/lvl. my first invis round i haste my party. the second roudn i start cranking out monsters as far in front of me as i can and have them attack my enemies. i stay invisible and everyone dies.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/i/invisibility
very very useful spell.
hee hee so true Nephril I like that scenario
My dex is 11 but like I said I think I'll up it to 12 and get that little bonus take it from my cha...
Also could someone tell me about spells
I can use as many 0-levels per day and can choose from any of the 3 I memorize each day
With my int bonus I get 5 spells per day from 5???? that i memorize each day?? not sure I got that right or not.
thanks again..
As a wizard, you ought to be casting mirror image during most challenging encounters (thus, AC becomes a secondary defense). Similarly, you can cast expeditious retreat, fly or invisibility to elude your enemies.
As a 1st level wizard you should have 1 1st-level spell per day. Plus an additional 1 1st-level spell if you are a specialized in a school, and another if you have a high enough Intelligence (12 to 19) or another 2 if your Intelligence is 20 or more. You should have 2 to 4 1st level spells per day, along with 3 cantrips. Your cantrips are spells that are never expended when you cast them and you can exchange them for any other cantrip anytime you prepare spells.
However, it's fine to say that AC shouldn't be completelly ignored. You can be shot during a surprise round, you may roll low initiative, and sometimes, monsters can see through invisibility or mirror image, or can fly. If you have AC 10, you are going to be Power Attacked / Deadly Aimed to death. Cast Mage Armor, use low cost Natural Armor amulets and rings, and use cover whenever you can. Just don't become overzealous on that.
As a 1st level wizard you should have 1 1st-level spell per day. Plus an additional 1 1st-level spell if you are a specialized in a school, and another if you have a high enough Intelligence (12 to 19) or another 2 if your Intelligence is 20 or more. You should have 2 to 4 1st level spells per day, along with 3 cantrips. Your cantrips are spells that are never expended when you cast them and you can exchange them for any other cantrip anytime you prepare spells.
So what does it mean in the core when it says your 1 spell a day along with your int modifier. my int is 18 which is a modifier of +4 so shouldn't that mean I have 5 per day? Soooo many rules to look thru LOL
also does it also mean thats how many spells I can memorize per day or how many I can use? thanks again
If your Intelligence is 18, you will have 3 0-level spells (cantrips), and 2 1st-level spells (3 is you specialize in a school, but your 3rd 1st-level spell must be of that school).
...also does it also mean thats how many spells I can memorize per day or how many I can use?
That is how many spells you can memorize day (after 8 hours of uninterupted rest). Your spellbook will contain all of the cantrips and 3 plus your Intelligence modifier (in this case 4) 1st level spells; for a total of 7 for you. Out of these 7 spells you prepare 2 (or 3, if you are a specialist) each morning. You can use each prepared spell once before it is expended must be rememorized to be cast again, with the exceptions of cantrips, which are not expended when cast.
If your Intelligence is 18, you will have 3 0-level spells (cantrips), and 2 1st-level spells (3 is you specialize in a school, but your 3rd 1st-level spell must be of that school).
Ahh Ok I was reading it wrong thanks...
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As a wizard, you ought to be casting mirror image during most challenging encounters (thus, AC becomes a secondary defense). Similarly, you can cast expeditious retreat, fly or invisibility to elude your enemies.
Mirror Image is in no way separate from good AC. Indeed, with the massive, massive buffing PF gave mirror image, accumulating a huge AC and miss chance greatly improves the defensive power of the mirror image. Recall, in PF, if they miss you by 5 or less, an image goes pop. But that means the images effectively have almost your AC (in 3E, they just had 10 + your dex mod AC...).
I have seen both another player's PC, and an enemy NPC exploit the massive AC + miss chance + mirror image combo. In the PC's case, it led to being practically untouchable. Maybe getting hit once every 20 attacks or so, against foes with very high attack bonuses. In the NPC case, it was a wizard that was 2-3 levels above us...still presumably a beatable challenge. He wasn't even using optimal tactics, either. He literally waded into melee with us. An illusionist. No Eldritch Knight or anything. He had buffed his AC very high and had a miss chance. It took us about 10 rounds to take down all his images...then he just put it up again (DM actually apologized to us as he did it... "I am so sorry..." :) ). It took us real life time of 3 hours and nearly 20 rounds of combat, with the dude literally tanking against us. It didn't even end with us killing him. He ran out of spells and ran away!
As a wizard, you ought to be casting mirror image during most challenging encounters (thus, AC becomes a secondary defense). Similarly, you can cast expeditious retreat, fly or invisibility to elude your enemies.Mirror Image is in no way separate from good AC. Indeed, with the massive, massive buffing PF gave mirror image, accumulating a huge AC and miss chance greatly improves the defensive power of the mirror image. Recall, in PF, if they miss you by 5 or less, an image goes pop. But that means the images effectively have almost your AC (in 3E, they just had 10 + your dex mod AC...)
Unless you have an optimized AC, +5 to a regular AC is pretty much the same as autohit.
My sorcerer has dex 16, Natural armor +4, a Deflection ring, mage armor, and sits on 22 AC at lvl 10 unless I cast Shield. That means my mirror image has AC 17. By lvl 10, most monsters hit AC 17 with a 2+. You can add displacement or blurr to that, but if you do, you only get an effect against unintelligent enemies (like animals and some magical beasts). See below
I have seen both another player's PC, and an enemy NPC exploit the massive A + miss chance + mirror image combo. In the PC's case, it led to being practically untouchable.
If you close your eyes, you ignore Mirror Image and only roll for 50% chance to miss (half that if you have blindfighting)
Yeah, the DM in the game w/ that PC uses that tactic sometimes. It just means that the player gets to use it for 50% miss chance (ie, a 3rd level spell effect) and make it last through multiple combats instead of just one. So..still pretty good.
In the case of the NPC, it was the first time I or I think anyone else in the party had ever played PF, we were used to the much more sane 3E version. We wasted a bunch of effort on now invalid tactics. Like taking the massive penalties for TWF (w/o having the feat) just to get more attacks thinking the images would be easy to hit, and it was worth popping them. And then when we did hit the caster, thinking we'd be able to correctly target him until his next turn when he could shuffle the images around, only to discover that text had been removed and the images were basically constantly shuffling by extension of the omission...
We just didn't think of closing our eyes for some reason. Probably weren't thinking straight due to the frustration. We just got so single-minded determined to get rid of those stupid images, like tunnel-vision.
Yeah, the DM in the game w/ that PC uses that tactic sometimes. It just means that the player gets to use it for 50% miss chance (ie, a 3rd level spell effect) and make it last through multiple combats instead of just one. So..still pretty good.
In the case of the NPC, it was the first time I or I think anyone else in the party had ever played PF, we were used to the much more sane 3E version. We wasted a bunch of effort on now invalid tactics. Like taking the massive penalties for TWF (w/o having the feat) just to get more attacks thinking the images would be easy to hit, and it was worth popping them. And then when we did hit the caster, thinking we'd be able to correctly target him until his next turn when he could shuffle the images around, only to discover that text had been removed and the images were basically constantly shuffling by extension of the omission...
We just didn't think of closing our eyes for some reason. Probably weren't thinking straight due to the frustration. We just got so single-minded determined to get rid of those stupid images, like tunnel-vision.
:D
Illusionist tend to frustrate people. Your party fell into the trap, it's kinda thematic :PYes, It's a very powerful effect, even if you close the eyes. However, if he is already stacking miss chance to Mirror Image (ie: displacement), it's pointless to keep the eyes open. You'll have 50% miss chance regardless, and you have the images on top of that.
Whoa cool
So if there is 5 images in MI you have a 1 in 5 to hit but if you close your eyes you have a 50% to hit? Why is that, its awesome by any means just curious as to why.
Becouse Mirror Image is a Figment Illusion. It's sight based, and do not work on blind characters. If you close your eyes, you have a 50% chance to miss, becouse your target is invisible to you (you also lose Dex Bonus, he gets +2 to attack you, and some movement penalties as well).
Sometimes it's just better to close the eyes, sometimes it's better to attack and remove images (for example, a low damage monk might flurry to remove all images and allow a heavy hitting barbarian to Vital strike the guy to death).
But if the guy is stacking Mirror Image and miss chance (from blur or displacement), it's better just to close the eyes.
If you don't have Mage Armor up all the time, consider buying a Haramaki. 3 gold and 1 lb for 1 AC and no drawbacks. Just remember the armor bonus it grants will not stack with Mage Armor (or any other armor bonus you might have, like Bracers of Armor). Still, it's a nice fallback until you can get Mage Armor up for most of the day.
Or Silken armor. It's more expensive, but looks better :P
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Whoa cool
So if there is 5 images in MI you have a 1 in 5 to hit but if you close your eyes you have a 50% to hit? Why is that, its awesome by any means just curious as to why.
your eyes can deceive you don't trust them.
If you don't have Mage Armor up all the time, consider buying a Haramaki. 3 gold and 1 lb for 1 AC and no drawbacks. Just remember the armor bonus it grants will not stack with Mage Armor (or any other armor bonus you might have, like Bracers of Armor). Still, it's a nice fallback until you can get Mage Armor up for most of the day.
I personally like the ceremonial silk robes better. I have found that it fits with the GMs I game with better since it's both more expensive and more "wizardly" than a piece of metal wrapped around the belly.
However this is mostly a 'flavor' thing -- just something that might help get a bit more AC without throwing the GM for too much of a loop.
Both are an excellent choice later on too when you want a bit more AC than mage armor provides or you want to have heavy fortification or the determination property for those "oh no" moments.
Dropping Dex isn't great, but it's not lethal. However, NEVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMISTANCES, should you dump Con. Everyone needs at least 12, preferably 14. Trust me on this one. ; )
Just remember, you probably want at least a 14 or 16 in Dex if you want to use ray attacks.
Why do you need higher AC for ray attacks??
If you don't have Mage Armor up all the time, consider buying a Haramaki. 3 gold and 1 lb for 1 AC and no drawbacks. Just remember the armor bonus it grants will not stack with Mage Armor (or any other armor bonus you might have, like Bracers of Armor). Still, it's a nice fallback until you can get Mage Armor up for most of the day.
I personally like the ceremonial silk robes better. I have found that it fits with the GMs I game with better since it's both more expensive and more "wizardly" than a piece of metal wrapped around the belly.
However this is mostly a 'flavor' thing -- just something that might help get a bit more AC without throwing the GM for too much of a loop.
Both are an excellent choice later on too when you want a bit more AC than mage armor provides or you want to have heavy fortification or the determination property for those "oh no" moments.
Kewl I'll check em out. I assume I would need to take the feat that lets me wear amor?
Kewl I'll check em out. I assume I would need to take the feat that lets me wear amor?If you don't have Mage Armor up all the time, consider buying a Haramaki. 3 gold and 1 lb for 1 AC and no drawbacks. Just remember the armor bonus it grants will not stack with Mage Armor (or any other armor bonus you might have, like Bracers of Armor). Still, it's a nice fallback until you can get Mage Armor up for most of the day.
I personally like the ceremonial silk robes better. I have found that it fits with the GMs I game with better since it's both more expensive and more "wizardly" than a piece of metal wrapped around the belly.
However this is mostly a 'flavor' thing -- just something that might help get a bit more AC without throwing the GM for too much of a loop.
Both are an excellent choice later on too when you want a bit more AC than mage armor provides or you want to have heavy fortification or the determination property for those "oh no" moments.
Not really they both have 0 ACP so proficiency isn't required.
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Why do you need higher AC for ray attacks??Dropping Dex isn't great, but it's not lethal. However, NEVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMISTANCES, should you dump Con. Everyone needs at least 12, preferably 14. Trust me on this one. ; )
Just remember, you probably want at least a 14 or 16 in Dex if you want to use ray attacks.
It's not the AC, it's the to-hit. Ranged touch attacks are usually pretty easy to hit with, but you'll still be wanting some bonuses.
Rocking on both accounts, thanks guys..
Archers with Seeking enhancement on their bows close their eyes and laugh at Mirror Image. Just throwing that out there. Miss chance not a worry.
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So again a noob question I'm sure.
I made a wizard with high int and cha but pretty low strength and dex basically no bonus for either 10 and 11. I really wanted all the int bonus for spells and cha for skills.
Sooooooooooooo in doing that my AC is 10, does that seem right? I'm fine with it if it is I wanted to make a true squishy with as much spells as possible, but if I made a mistake and get better AC then of course I'll take it LOL
Anyway thanks for the help
Dug
get a mirthril buckler asap. shield spell is still better, so you can cast it to override the buckler when you need the extra 3.
from level 1 on, i wouldnt play a mage without a nice dex and int score. people neglect the fact that mages use ranged touch attacks that use dex as the attack stat. cha is just about the most worthless stat in the game, unless you plan on making a char mage, which a sorcerer is much better for this, then you are wasting stats by choosing cha.
for a wizard i choose int>dex>con>wis>cha>str (unless im playing a EK wizard then strength before cha)
Kewl more great info thanks again. I'm definitely reallocated some points around..