Hey,
I made my first "Battlecleric" for the upcoming Rise of the Runelords campaign. First I wanted to go with Gorum and maybe prestige into "Divine Scion", but Gorums domains are not that good. So I decided zo go with Desna as her domainlist is awesome. What I came up with is this: (20pt-buy, 2 traits)
NG Human Desna-Cleric 1 (Travel, Luck)
STR 18
DEX 12
CON 14
INT 7
WIS 15
CHA 10
Special:
Channel Energy 3/day (Luck, Heal) d6/+1
Agile Steps 5/day
Bit of Luck 5/day
Traits:
Heirloom Weapon (for either Greatsword or Earthbreaker proficiency)
Deft Dodger
Feats:
Heavy Armor Proficiency
Toughness
So what do you guys think, is there any way to get some more battlefocus out of this? (no battle-oracles please, I dont like them :P)
Maybe Liberation would be nice instead of luck, especially since I dont really have a standard-action to spare for "Bit of Luck" and the 8th-level aura is just awesome.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/equipment-traits/heirloom-weapon
This one.
That's a low charisma for a cleric. The lack of channeling is going to hurt, especially in early levels. Hope you're not too attached to the spells you prepare, as you'll probably need to drop them for cures. It'll be less important once you can afford a cure wand, but if your group is the sort where healing (in and/or out of combat) is needed, you might struggle to keep up. Maybe drop your strength or con down a bit for extra charisma?
I'm playing a 6th level Desna cleric in a Planescape campaign, and I will say Bit of Luck has been one of the single most powerful tools at my disposal. Coupled with a good Barbarian party member I make sure she destroys all in our path O.O
I give this a 0.7 out of Pi.
Your Dex is above Cha, your Str well above Wis, you've got a 7 in Int.
Of course this is if you want to be "strong" (which has nothing to do with your strength score if you're not a barbarian), and someone who just makes a character he loves shouldn't pick his god because he's got the right domains when he's playing a cleric.
Sorry if it's a very negative review, and it's your first character.
For a little more constructive advice, I would go with 16 Str, Wis, and try to up Int and Charisma, if you don't want to roleplay a 7 Int (please noone derail this into a how-to guide for roleplaying scores).
I realize you want a battlefocus cleric, but you go into the direction of a one-trick-pony, the law of diminishing return applies here. (to get a little better at battle, you get a lot worse at everything else)
I give it a 27.3 but I'm not telling you the scale.
Just kidding.
Looks pretty good to me if all you want to be good at is fighting. As suggested, I would consider dropping str slightly to gain some charisma. Especially if there is noone else that can cast a cure spell.
Heavy armor is kinda group and campaign dependant. If there are other slow and noisy characters, go for it. If the rest of the group is highly mobile or fairly sneaky, they may not appreciate you slowly clanking around after them.
Then again, they may appreciate that they are faster than you if they have to run away. =)
With the low wisdom, obviously not planning on casting alot of offensive spells. That's ok, clerics have alot of useful buffs/deffensive spells in addition to the cures.
What feat progression are you planning to take?
I currently have a Cleric of Gorum in the last mod of RotRL campaign. Its been kind of bitter sweet.
All the problems I ran into came after the first Mod. I found even with Heavy Armor proficiency and Toughness I still couldn't hold my own on the front line.
The first issue was since we had a caster heavy group so I didn't have much help on that front line. Making me the primary target. I hope you don't have this problem. Made me wish I had a shield.
The next problem I had was with range. Later on, seems like everything has reach. Cause a real problem for me and the melee oriented ranger. I used spells to overcome this, he swapped out his weapon for a pole arm.
The last thing you have to worry about is action economy. Later when my character hit his stride. For me this was starting at level 11 when I picked up Heal. I was an absolute Titan. I can be one of the deadliest members of our party. I could do the most sustained damage without taxing my resources, but I still couldn't really fulfill the healing roll and do melee damage. This wasn't really a problem unless the end of the 5th mod,(due to the nastiness there and the fact we lost the other "healing" cleric) when I found myself struggling to keep the group alive and going. Effectively stopping my damage cause was always something that needed fixing with my magic.
In recap, If you have some front liners you shouldn't have an issue with problem 1. Problem 2 will come up, prepare to deal with it. Problem 3 will come up late in the campaign (after level 12ish)if your the primary healing of your party, it will make that 18 strength seem kind of wasted stat.
7 Int..no comment LOL, Str higher than Dex on a Cleric of the God of Liberation (or should I say one of the few with the domain)...odd but understandable. Just another battle cleric to me, but it's not really your design. I just can't rate stats alone, I need to read a background and how it all ties together.
I'd pass on that Greatsword. Eventually you will have to take the proficiency feat so why waste a trait.
@Fionnabhair:
We will have another highly CHA/WIS focused cleric in the party, so I thought I´d skip this part.
@Richard:
As long is its no flame every review is good. (And its just my first cleric ;))
Dumping STR a little and getting more WIS is a good idea. (bonus spells, DCs) INT and CHA could be swapped, but i´d like to leave them that way, cause there are already other party members focusing heavily on these stats and i kinda like the idea of a divine barbarian (though I am missing the rage subdomain).
@Kydeem:
Heavy Armor shouldnt be a problem cause most of the time we just kick in doors and rush blindly. :P But i thought about swapping it for Weapong Focus.
I highly wanted to focus on buffs, so no WIS 18 shouldnt be that big of a problem.
Hm feats ... maybe:
1 Toughness, Heavy Armor or Weapon Focus
3 Power Attack
5 Furious Focus or Lightning Reflexes
@blackbloodtroll:
As a PG i´d like an Asimar with Travel/Darkness but my GM wont allow that, so as we have no wizard and two clerics (the other one is gorum btw Rage/Tactics), getting fly and teleport seemed nessecary and on the other hand Travel is my favored Domain. So Travel/Luck or Travel/Liberation would be the best.
@Slacker
thx for the advice.
maybe sth like:
STR 16
DEX 12
CON 14
INT 9
WIS 16
CHA 9
or with dumping what I can
STR 17
DEX 10
CON 14
INT 7
WIS 18
CHA 7
Ah and just for your information: Everything Paizo published is available to me. No 3.5 or 3rd party.
@Deyvantius:
First mechanics, then background to justify the mechanics :P
@Deyvantius:
First mechanics, then background to justify the mechanics :P
ARGH ! FLAME WAR !!!
Sorry, but you may get responses from a lot of 'true believers' that insist the only right way is create the concept background first then find the mechanics to fit that.
I make characters either way, depending upon my mood.
Ah and just for your information: Everything Paizo published is available to me. No 3.5 or 3rd party.
Guided weapon are paizo and 3.5 AFAIK. I don't know if that's all right but check it out.
Since there is another cleric that will focus on spells and channeling, you might consider taking 1 level of fighter (or even 4 levels). Martial weapons, heavy armor, tower shield, and an extra feat for the loss of 1 caster level and 1 on will saves.
Oh and cleric can't take weapon focus or power attack at level 1 since both require a BaB of +1 or better.
longspear or morningstar (which you can 2h or combine with a shield if you need it) should be enough really, unless your getting an auto proficiency with a weapon due to your god i would avoid taking a trait to get proficiency with just that weapon since it will be pretty useless when you change at about level 2 for a masterwork weapon or at level 4 for a +1 weapon.
greatsword is a fine weapon but unless you get martial weapon prof or dip into another class then its probably not going to be amazing as you will spend a lot of your time wishing you didn't have to cast greater magic weapon on your crappy heirloom weapon every day. heavy armour prof is a waste at level 1 as you are not going to be picking up any heavy armour or even enough money to buy heavy armour straight away anyway, much better to take it at level 3 and take a feat that you will get some use out of straight away, in your case i would probably take weapon focus to make your high str really count so you can one hit all the monsters in the first few encounters and make it more likely that you hit.
if you have selected your god purely for the domain options that is fair enough but i would urge you to look at some of the other gods with better weapon proficiencies for free and their subdomains, saraenrae has one of the best weapon options avaialble on the table for a 2h battle cleric who also wants the option of using a shield, shelyn has an excellent reach weapon proficiency for free and they both have access to great domains (not as good as liberation but still).
ARGH ! FLAME WAR !!!
I know but when I first do a character of a class I´ve never played before I like to know what I can do with the rules before I fit that char into the world.
BTW -> plz no flamewar in this topic!!! :P
Mechanically solid. Though Gorum's Domains aren't actively bad, just not as good as Desna'a (because nobody's are).
Hmm... Groetus's set of domains (with things like both Darkness and Madness, and the Protean subdomain) looks pretty sweet to me, as well...
Yeah, I forgot the +1 BAB req for Weapon Focus.
Heirloom Weapon keeps getting worse as neither me nor my GM read that "specific" in the text.
One level-dip of fighter might be the best option, saves me a feat and I could make up for the CL with Magical Knack. Though I am going to ask my GM about the guided weapon, could be another option.
I looked at all of the Gods, the major ones at last, and I´d either like Gorum or Desna. And as I want Travel, I´ll stick with Desna and throw some Starknifes occasionaly. ^^
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I would wait until later for heavy armour, or not at all. A suit of Mithral full plate with the comfort enchantment reduces the ACP to 1, and a mithral shield to 0, sure the -1 on all attacks kind of sucks, but isn't the end of the world.
Also consider the Defense subdomain of protection. Between Barkskin as you l2 domain spell, and the granted domain power you don't need a cloak of protection nor amulet of natural armor.
If you want to be everyone in your parties friend in lieu of one domain take the Tactics Inquisition (god permitting.) Granting everyone your Wis bonus to init.
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Everything Paizo published is available to me
Since you have access to all Paizo materials you should keep an eye out for the Guided weapon property.
It allows you to use Wis in place of Str for Attack and Damage.Look at it here:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapons-non-core/we apon-property---guided
With this you can do both spellcasting AND damage via melee.
It would also give you more ability build points to play around with. You can afford to place some into Cha if you need to.
Hope this helps.
If you want to play a front line combatant with divine power you may want to consider an Oracle. An Oracle of Battle will be much stronger in a fight, but still be able to cast spells. Since you already have another Cleric in the party this gives you a chance to be different. Take Skill at arms for your first revelation and you will have proficiency with all armors and martial weapons.
Are you set on Cleric? I've heard/seen good things about battle Oracles, and that may better fit your concept of "divine barbarian".
EDIT: Yarr! Ninja'd.
the first thing he said was no oracle builds tbh, i agree that a battle oracle would be a stronger option than a melee cleric build when focused but if he wants to make a cleric help him optimise what he asked you to optimise and don't suggest things that he specifically called out that he didn't want?
not getting on at you but its in the first post.
@Secane
Guided is awesome, though as it is from another adventure, at least according to pfsrd, so I have to discuss this with my GM.
@blackbloodtroll
Thx, I´ll look them up, though evil alignments are forbidden.
Inquisitor would be a solid choice, but I´m kinda stuck with this battlecleric-concept ;).
@bigkilla
Crusader sounds promising but I think with one lvl of Fighter I would sacrifice less and gain more.
Is there a Trait that gives you Perception as a class-skill?
Is there a Trait that gives you Perception as a class-skill?
Eyes and Ears of the City (LN only)
And I think there are some others for elves and 1/2 orcs.
Check the campaign specific traits also.
So you really want to play a guy that makes Forrest Gump look like Einstein?
plz no flamewar in this topic!!! :P
but anyways I have no problem with roleplaying my ugly and dumb divine brute.
So still at work and bored ...
After considering everything I think I´ll start out with 1 Level of Fighter and continue Cleric with Liberation/Travel afterwards
Stats are either
STR 16
DEX 10
CON 12
INT 9
WIS 16
CHA 9
or
STR 17
DEX 10
CON 14
INT 7
WIS 18
CHA 7
Traits:
Deft Dodger & Rich Parents or Amror Master, if we get money at the start
Feats:
1 Toughness, Power Attack, Furious Focus
2
3 Combat Casting
4
5 Extend Spell
Very reasonable.
By the time you get there, you may want something else instead of extend spell. But it is a solid option.
Umm, your build 1 is short by your +2, which you would place in Wis for a 18 there. In other words, you’re making your character a ugly, despised by all idiot for one pt in STR (which doesn’t help right now) and 2 points in CON.
How about str 14
Dex 10
Con 14
Int10
Wis 16
Cha 10
I´m not sure about the feats from lvl5 on either. Any Suggestions?
Seriously though 20 point buy so I'd avoid negatives. Of course your choice and depends on what your GM makes you actually play out.
15 STR and WIS and 14 con will be fine, put the bonus in STR add +1 at 4 and then all WIS. Trust me you will find some +2 WIS and still have plenty of "no save reliant" spells to cast (cure/buff/etc.)
IF you are just set on maxxing stats and don;t care about the negatives just pump STR or CON. HPs last loner than the crappy +1 AC you are getting from dex
I´d rather max the stats, cause as I know the DM it wont be played out that much. I could go with dwarf, might be a better choice as the +2 to CON gives me basicly the same as Toughness and Darkvision. Although I dont know if its realy wise to dump CHA to 5 and skip Channel.
As for feats, maybe Defensive Combat Training to keep my CMD competetive.