Con drain. 0=redundant?


Rules Questions


Hi guys, I'm about to use wraiths on my party. These have a d6 con drain attack
from my understanding of con damage won't the afflicted person be dead long before 0 con? Maybe I'm reading the rule wrong. Please let me know if my math is off. example 10 level fighter 90 hp (con =16) fails fort save and the roll is a 6 doing 6x10 HD, and the fighter losses 60 hp. Next hit 2nd wraith (crappy roll again example) fails save this time looses 4 con 4x 10 = 40 hp loss dieing fighter on ground 2 hits.
Am understanding this rule?

Shouldn't wraiths be a much higher cr than 5?


Actually, the fighter would be losing half the number of hit points you state. This is because a -6 to Constitution results in a -3 to the modifier, so when the fighter loses 6 Con he loses 3x10 HD, losing 30 HP. Then, with the loss of 4 Con he loses 2x10 HD, losing 20 HP. So he actually won't die due to HP reduction before he loses all of his Constitution.

Grand Lodge

Divide the damage by 2, as 2 points of Con damage only removes 1 HP per HD.


The damage is to con, so in your example above, the fighter would drop from 16 con (+3) to an effective 10 con (+0). This would mean a net loss of 30 hp since the extra hp is con bonus x lvl.

Even at if he were drained to 1 Con (-5), he would still have 10 hp left.

As for the CR being right? Well, they go down fairly fast and definitely earn their position as "focus on that thing first!"

My experience (in play) has been they rarely offer much of a threat to the party but scare the bejesus out of them... making it a great monster.

Sean Mahoney


Ability drain does not lower derived stats by the same amount as the stat itself. It lowers it an 1/2 the rate. Thus with a con of 16 at 10'th level, you have a modifier of +3. When you are drained 6 con, you lose 3 hp per level = 30. It would take 12 more con drain to bring the character down to 0, but since he only has 10 con left, he dies at 0 con, even though he still has 10 hp left despite being at 0 con.


Dr.Rant wrote:

Hi guys, I'm about to use wraiths on my party. These have a d6 con drain attack

from my understanding of con damage won't the afflicted person be dead long before 0 con? Maybe I'm reading the rule wrong. Please let me know if my math is off. example 10 level fighter 90 hp (con =16) fails fort save and the roll is a 6 doing 6x10 HD, and the fighter losses 60 hp. Next hit 2nd wraith (crappy roll again example) fails save this time looses 4 con 4x 10 = 40 hp loss dieing fighter on ground 2 hits.
Am understanding this rule?

Shouldn't wraiths be a much higher cr than 5?

If the wraith rolled a six your con would go from say 16 to 10 resulting in a drop of a +3 modifier and the loss of 3*10 HP, so 30 HP.

Wraiths are fine for the CR, my players while scared rarely die to them.


When you lose con you just reduce the hit points that your constitution modifier would give you. Every 2 points of constitution loss drops the modifier by one so by losing 6 con you lose 3 hp/level. That means the fighter in the above scenario lost 30 hp.

The danger with the wraiths is the if you lose con then your fort save drops, which makes it easier to fail the next save.

edit:ninja'd 5 times.

Silver Crusade

You are doubling the penalty.

Read page 555 of the Core Rule Book

For every 2 points of damage you take to a single ability, apply a -1 penalty to skills and statistics listed with the relevant ability.

So, it should be penalty (3) x HD (10) = 30hp lost off of total hp. A 2nd hit of 6 would repeat that and cause a loss of 30 more leaving the character with a Con score of 4 and 30hp total. Let's say the last hit drains 4 leaving them at 0 con (and dead from con loss) with 10hp.

Edit: Woah, yeah... what everyone else said.


Oooooo ok I get it now wasn't see the word penalty in

Constitution: Damage to your Constitution score causes you to take penalties on your Fortitude saving throws. In addition, multiply your total Hit Dice by this penalty and subtract that amount from your current and total hit points. Lost hit points are restored when the damage to your Constitution is healed. A character with a Constitution score of 0 is dead.

Ok thanks all!!!!!

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