Is there any way to reduce the reload time for a sling?
There are two feats in the Halflings of Golarion book that speed up reload time, if you don't opt to play a halfling and go with the Warslinger trait.
Ammo drop decreases reload time to a swift action and Juggle load decreases reload time to a free action. You will need a rank in Sleight of Hand for these feats and Ammo drop is required before taking Juggle load. Also, you have to be proficient in the use of slings.
You can find the feat descriptions here: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats.
Spending 2 feats just to reload a weapon that's inferior to a xbow?!
I just allow Rapid Reload to work with a sling. RAW, seems as though warslinger is the only reasonable option in PF, unfortunately.
I'm playing a Druid that uses a Sling (rarely).. Is reloading a normal Sling a move action? Just like a Crossbow?
Slings apply strength bonus to damage.
In that, they're superior to an Xbow
Slings apply strength bonus to damage.
In that, they're superior to an Xbow
Well when you are playing a Gnome Druid with a 10 STR... guess it doesn't matter
There is no justification for making loading a sling any slower than loading a bow.
Reach for quiver - take out arrow - knock arrow - draw and loose
Reach for pouch - take out stone - put stone in cup - spin and loose (or a variant depending on your slinging style)
There is no justification for making loading a sling any slower than loading a bow.
Err.. except maybe historically where a bowman was much, much faster than a slinger.
Rules as they are... not much to help. But I agree with the sentiment that there should really be no reason to now allow Rapid Reload to apply to slings.
David and Goliath?
i think that was more of an advertisement for the vital strike tree, rather than rate of fire.
"A good slinger could fire more than twelve rounds a minute"
"Larry Bray set the Guinness World Record for a stone cast with a sling in 1981, achieving an impressive range of 437m (Norris, 1985). In retrospect, Mr. Bray believes he could have surpassed 600m mark with a better sling and lead projectiles (Bray, Personal Communication, March 21st, 2004)"
For some (more) interesting info on sling use -
Slings apply strength bonus to damage.
In that, they're superior to an Xbow
A light crossbow also has two die size increases in damage over a sling, more than +50% range, and a better critical threat range. Sling needs a str 14 just to pull even on damage (d8 avg of 4.5, d4 avg. of 2.5), higher to actually surpass the xbow. The xbow user, meanwhile, can nerf hsi str down to 7 and have no repurcussions to his damage at all. A sling user str drained to the point of a str penalty will take that penalty on his damage rolls.
With a very high strength (which likely comes at the expense of dex, that stat you need in order to hit in the first place), sling can be better if Rapid Reload were to work for both. But in most cases, the xbow is clearly superior. Oh, and you can drop pone as a free action with a xbow and still shoot just fine for a sweet +4 AC vs. your sniper nemesis. Sling can't do that, either.
There is no justification for making loading a sling any slower than loading a bow.Err.. except maybe historically where a bowman was much, much faster than a slinger.
Cite a reference please. I'm skeptical.
Stream, you are absolutely correct.
However, I always suggest a sling and some throwing weapons for high STR melee types. Both apply strength. Slings for longer range, thrown items (darts) for shorter. Lots of melee characters neglect ranged combat, and so they also focus their resources ($) on melee, ignoring ranged. If you're going to not sink big money into ranged weapons, may as well use something that does better damage for no additional cost.
As a primary weapon, yes the Sling has drawbacks (by the RAW), and I probably wouldn't recommend it over other weapons... unless you have a strength of like 30+
Oh, I love the sling, I wish it didn't get cheated out of Rapid Shot. :)
All my melee characters carry at least a sling and clubs. The former is nearly free, the latter literally is free. There is no excuse to not have a ranged weapon unless you've recently been robbed blind or something.
Harrison, Chris. “The Sling in Medieval Europe"
Great link - thanks!
According to this article, slings were slightly faster to use than bows, and crossbows were the slowest by far (about 5 times slower than a bow).
I'll do my best to forget this whenever I'm role-playing ;o)
- Niilo
The best data I can find for a professional archer is "The average English Military Archer could fire 12 to 15 arrows per minute and hit a man-sized target at a minimum of 200 yards. The maximum range was about 400 yards with flight arrows."
But, the data from various sources is somewhere between 4 and 5 seconds an arrow, which is roughly the same as the mark set for an experienced slinger. I didn't give them enough credit and I thought the rotations of the sling would add more time to their release.
That being said, bows are more accurate but less damaging, but that's not the topic at hand. Seems as if the slingers draw even on this one.
Speaking historically...
For slings, you don't do the "swing over your head over and over" move like you see in movies. You can, if you have the time ... that would be akin to "readying an action" to fire, like pulling back the hammer on a gun, or drawing a bow with an arrow loaded.
Many slingers just launch like an exaggerated throw, maybe with one rotation, or less. If you read up on slings, they're pretty awesome. They're just less intuitive and harder to use in tight formation... hence their phasing out. Range and rate of fire and effectiveness of slings is actually quite comparable, and sometimes superior, to bows.
There is no justification for making loading a sling any slower than loading a bow.
Reach for quiver - take out arrow - knock arrow - draw and loose
Reach for pouch - take out stone - put stone in cup - spin and loose (or a variant depending on your slinging style)
I have shot bows and slings, and I have to tell you, the amount of time it takes to spin a sling up to a speed to actually do damage is about equivalent to the time it takes to load and shoot a bow at least two times. Additionally, a sling that is long enough to allow you to throw a stone at a fatal velocity requires about 9 square yards of unobstructed space around you.
I do think that it would be reasonable to give iterative attacks with the sling tho, because it is actually quite effective to load a sling with multiple stones to achieve a shotgun-like effect.
This, of course, is absolutely academic, since this is a game where many physical phenomena are abstracted so much that they have very little to do with their real-life analogue.
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There is no justification for making loading a sling any slower than loading a bow.
Reach for quiver - take out arrow - knock arrow - draw and loose
Reach for pouch - take out stone - put stone in cup - spin and loose (or a variant depending on your slinging style)
I have shot bows and slings, and I have to tell you, the amount of time it takes to spin a sling up to a speed to actually do damage is about equivalent to the time it takes to load and shoot a bow at least two times. Additionally, a sling that is long enough to allow you to throw a stone at a fatal velocity requires about 9 square yards of unobstructed space around you.
I do think that it would be reasonable to give iterative attacks with the sling tho, because it is actually quite effective to load a sling with multiple stones to achieve a shotgun-like effect.
This, of course, is absolutely academic, since this is a game where many physical phenomena are abstracted so much that they have very little to do with their real-life analogue.
You are using your sling in an ineffective manner then....
You don't need to "spin it to get to speed" and you don't need to have space all around you. There are several different throwing styles for slingers including a few variations of overhand, sidearm, and underhand forms (I use a modified underhand toss) and using my throw I need around 4 feet directly behind me to throw and I am fairly accurate to 50 yards...no space is needed to either side of me and from the time I load until I throw it is one quick movement of the arm (mostly wrist). I don't usually try for speed but I can probably toss one every 6 seconds....I usually try for power and I can put a metal shot through a sheet of 3/8" plywood at 50ish feet currently....I have seen videos of people doing the same but through 3/4" plywood, I am working on it.I learned to build my slings from Slinging.org and found most of my info from there. Been slinging for around 5 years now but then I am usually a quick study in combat stuff.
There is no justification for making loading a sling any slower than loading a bow.Err.. except maybe historically where a bowman was much, much faster than a slinger.
Rules as they are... not much to help. But I agree with the sentiment that there should really be no reason to now allow Rapid Reload to apply to slings.
Err...except where historically that was not necessarily the case.
Bows, particularly the "long bow" have had better historical coverage than slings. Medieval chroniclers looked down on ranged weapons in general. The sling was seen as the lowest of the low, best used by peasants and shepherds, so it got even less favourable coverage.
The real disadvantage was learning to be a proficient slinger took even more time than a proficient archer.Exactly, and yet the sling is a Simple weapon while the Bow is martial....should be reversed, a bow is really easy to use in a basic fashion.
I would like to see a variant combat system where weapons were not classed as simple, martial and exotic, but rather you could have different levels of proficiency with a weapon.
Proficiency level could affect iterative attacks, rate of fire for missile weapons, even damage dice or whether you can perform combat manoeuvres with a particular weapon.
I would like to see a variant combat system where weapons were not classed as simple, martial and exotic, but rather you could have different levels of proficiency with a weapon.
Proficiency level could affect iterative attacks, rate of fire for missile weapons, even damage dice or whether you can perform combat manoeuvres with a particular weapon.
That would be a cool idea, and one I'd like to see.