Ray of frost. no optimised spell caster is going to prepare this spell, right?
well maybe. there's a way to make it worthwhile.
first you take magical lineage (ray of frost).
add rime spell metamagic.
suddenly you have an at-will ray that entangles for one round, and deals a bit of damage as a bonus effect. not so shabby, hey?
well then it gets better. spell perfection.
that's right, a fifteenth level cast blowing a feat on a cantrip.
Why? because an at-will quickened spell that inflicts -4 dex, -2 attack, halves speed and prevents running or charging for one round is cool.
literally.
it doesn't work if the enemy's resistant or immune to cold, but short of that it's a very solid lock-down effect and completely worth a 0-level slot.
or do you disagree?
A rime spell causes creatures that takes cold damage from the spell to become entangled for a number of rounds equal to the original level of the spell.
Being entangled for 0 rounds does not default to 1 round.
oops.
as i said earlier, i should start thinking before posting.
I did not catch it until the 2nd time I read it. I almost gave it a "thumbs up".
well if you throw on spell perfection (highten spell) till it's a 9th level spell in a level 0 slot then it becomes unlimited use 9 round entangle, which isn't a bad use of a standard action aganist a bbeg even at high levels.
Fueldrop, except the rule says "the original level" of the spell.
Which is still zero.
i thought highten spell got around that? i've always viewed it as kind of the whole point for having highten spell! (persistant spell makes it obsolete for upping saves.)
oh well, learn something new every day ect...
Fueldrop, except the rule says "the original level" of the spell.
Which is still zero.
No, Fueldrop is correct on using heighten spell. It's true that metamagic only increases the lv of the slot used not the actual lv of the spell. EXCEPT for heighten spell, which increases the actual lv of the spell. So that is a very nice combo if you are playing passed lv 15.
Disruptive spell is better for that. Take draconic or elemental bloodline in addition, and you are fine :-)
Acid splash might be better, though.
if only daze wasn't hd limited...
No, Fueldrop is correct on using heighten spell. It's true that metamagic only increases the lv of the slot used not the actual lv of the spell. EXCEPT for heighten spell, which increases the actual lv of the spell. So that is a very nice combo if you are playing passed lv 15.Fueldrop, except the rule says "the original level" of the spell.
Which is still zero.
Heighten changes the actual level, not the original level. The original level before heighten comes into play is 0.
I guess I should have bolded "original" too Wraith... sigh...
If i may alter my original proposition?
Ray of frost/acid splash + Spell perfection (ray of frost) + magical lineage (ray of frost) + disruptive spell + quicken spell = target must make a concentration check of RoFDC+Spell level to cast or use spell like abilities in the next round. even if that's only a 5% fail chance (natural 1) it's still worth a swift action right?
You don't fail concentration checks on a nat 1. Later in the game they become so easy you autopass unless you heighten the spell*, but then you start to take up actual spell slots, and it is not worth it since concentration check modifiers can get high enough that you can still get into autopass territory eventually.
Compared to blowing of a quickened Black Tentacles, Haste, Stinking Cloud, True Strike or so on?
Nah. It's nice to have at will, but at 15th level you already have more spells than you need.
Note that you can also just take spell perfection once ever, so I'd personally rather put it into something like Stone To Flesh, Dimension Door, Hold Monster or whatever.
HOWEVER... if you haz some sneak attack to toss on, Ray of Frost becomes quite nice.
I'll expand on what Alitan has said a bit by pointing out the Arcana of the Draconic Bloodline.
Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you cast a spell with an energy descriptor that matches your draconic bloodline's energy type, that spell deals +1 point of damage per die rolled.
Sneak Attack counts as a 'die rolled'.
True, but I don't know how many GM's you can convince that is the intent of the wording which matters a lot more than any rules juggling we can perform on these boards.
So a spellslinger with ray of frost and sneak attack (vivisectiost maybe?) and eldritch heritige, could add his gun attack bonus to the spell and get extra dmg per dice rolled?
Also, could a spellslinger 1/bladebound magus sack his arcane pool to make his cane pistol +1 (pistol) and then burn a wiz spell to make his gun seeking/ghost touch/ or anyother element? Spell slinger does not indicate what spells you can or cant' burn, as well, there's no +1 min. to enhancement bonus.
So you're going for a Caster 15/Vivisectionist 5 to be able to put out the awezome effect of 1d3+3d6+4 damage as a swift once per round at close range?
That's... awesomely bad. Even with a tiny chance to cause a spellcaster to fail a spell with it.
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Heighten changes the actual level, not the original level. The original level before heighten comes into play is 0.No, Fueldrop is correct on using heighten spell. It's true that metamagic only increases the lv of the slot used not the actual lv of the spell. EXCEPT for heighten spell, which increases the actual lv of the spell. So that is a very nice combo if you are playing passed lv 15.Fueldrop, except the rule says "the original level" of the spell.
Which is still zero.
If you wanted to distinguish between the concepts of:
a) The unmodified spell level of a spell
b) The level of the spell immediately before application of a feat, presuming it may have already been modified by others
what terms would you use for the cases?
My reason for asking is that I believe that 'original' may be a poor choice of words with regards to knocking out heighten for this feat.
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I took the "original level of the spell" portion to indicate that the fact that the metamagic raises its level by 1 doesn't affect the dice being applied to the spell. It may not necessarily be excluding Heighten, which should make it work.
That is, the extra reminder that the spell taking up a spell slot 1 level higher won't have any effect on how many d6 of cold damage are being dealt.
Effects of Metamagic Feats on a Spell: In all ways, a metamagic spell operates at its original spell level, even though it is prepared and cast using a higher-level spell slot. Saving throw modifications are not changed unless stated otherwise in the feat description.
Heighten spell changes the effective level aka giving it a heightened level which is different from the original level.
So you're going for a Caster 15/Vivisectionist 5 to be able to put out the awezome effect of 1d3+3d6+4 damage as a swift once per round at close range?
That's... awesomely bad. Even with a tiny chance to cause a spellcaster to fail a spell with it.
agreed. on the other hand cross-blooded elemental (primal)/dragonic sorcerer/rogue/Arcane trickster starts getting a Lot more impressive (at 5/5/10 you have 1d3+8d6+18)
That does sound interesting. 46 avg damage is nothing to sneeze at. For someone going arcane trickster it might be worth picking up, but I don't think it's worth building around (seeing as how you could throw around a lot more powerful stuff as a swift action at those levels).
Might be worth noting that with such a low level, you can easily pick up a lesser metamagic rod or ten to modify it on the fly.
That does sound interesting. 46 avg damage is nothing to sneeze at. For someone going arcane trickster it might be worth picking up, but I don't think it's worth building around (seeing as how you could throw around a lot more powerful stuff as a swift action at those levels).
Might be worth noting that with such a low level, you can easily pick up a lesser metamagic rod or ten to modify it on the fly.
it's kind of unfortunate that the +damage part of the combo doesn't work for vampiric touch... 15d6+30 damage and a like number of temp HP? count me in!
I'll expand on what Alitan has said a bit by pointing out the Arcana of the Draconic Bloodline.
Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you cast a spell with an energy descriptor that matches your draconic bloodline's energy type, that spell deals +1 point of damage per die rolled.
Sneak Attack counts as a 'die rolled'.
Nice thought, but unfortunately not applicable. The spell deals d3 damage, +1 for the arcana. The sneak attack adds precision-based damage, the dice of which have nothing to do with the method used to deliver said damage. Yes, the sneak attack damage is the same type as the weaponlike spell, but the arcana is for boosting damage from spells, not bonus damage tacked on to spells. I think.
Hell, I don't know for certain -- RAW could indeed make that arcana buff SA damage. But after getting (x)d6 thrown onto my cantrip I wouldn't press to add (+x) to it very hard. And my own feeling on the matter is that arcana buffing applies to spell damage specifically, not to non-magical damage buffing on the spell effect.
While I understand that, the arcana specifically says +1 damage per die rolled, not +1 damage per die of just the spell itself.
Like others have said though, there are better things you could be doing with your standard action.
I made the same connection... And also did not realize it didn't default to 1 round...
Course, I also cross-blooded it and made them suffocate and be unable to cast spells (Void-Touched).... Void Touched works, still, buut the entangle is still a no go, which is total bummer...