|
So, someone else pointed out to me the details below and I wanted to ask if I was missing something, RAW this looks correct, likely not RAI
1)A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.
2)the magus spell combat/strike abilities only talk about weapons, but not specific ones, with Spellstrike saying: "he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack."
so can the Magus buff his monk fists and wail away with them? Again, if I'm not missing something somewhere RAW looks like yes, but I want to be sure.
Thanks!
You're losing a lot on the unarmed strike as opposed to a 18-20 (which at 5th level you can make keen via arcane pool) threat range weapon, though.
I didn't know flurry was incompatible with spell combat. If so, I guess you should do Master of Many Styles. But could someone quote exactly why you can't?
|
|
Arcane pool pumping the fists is the main thing which doesn't stop the flurry.
considering that a spell isn't a 'Monk weapon' I suppose it makes sense that you can't flurry and spell strike, but, monks get a crap load of attacks at higher level even when not flurrying, and arcane pool can buff that... so... meh
|
|
You're losing a lot on the unarmed strike as opposed to a 18-20 (which at 5th level you can make keen via arcane pool) threat range weapon, though.
this is a monks unarmed strike though which an get buffs from both Ki pool and Arcane pool... and if your a monk of the empty hand you can make anything keen or vorpal with the arcane pool... Oooo... I so want to have a Vorpal feather quill... heheheh
But if you use spellstrike to channel a touch spell into your fist and attack with it (against full AC as an unarmed strike), you're still attacking only with unarmed strikes, are you not? You could not spell combat w/o spellstrike (such as to cast a buff spell), but why wouldn't this work?
|
|
but why wouldn't this work?
under RAW: Spell Combat says: "This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast. "
Flurry of Blows says: " When doing so he may make one additional attack using any combination of unarmed strikes or attacks with a special monk weapon (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham) as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat)."
"Spell" is not in the "special monk weapon" list.
You could hold the charge and attack next round, but that kind of wastes the whole thing since it only goes off once, not on each blow in the flurry. Why extend combat another round?
You quoted spell combat, not spellstrike. Spellstrike says:
"Spellstrike (Su): At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon's critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier."
Yes, spell combat lets you cast while full attacking (flurry is a full attack). Spellstrike lets you make an extra attack if you deliver the (touch) spell through your weapon, with your weapon. By using spellstrike with spell combat, you get an additional attack and cast the spell, and deliver it through your weapon, and all of your attacks made that turn are thus with your weapon. Which in this case is an unarmed strike, so the flurry prohibition against attacking w/ non-monk weapons has not been broken.
I'm asking why that does not work.
|
|
Yes, spell combat lets you cast while full attacking (flurry is a full attack). Spellstrike lets you make an extra attack if you deliver the (touch) spell through your weapon, with your weapon. By using spellstrike with spell combat, you get an additional attack and cast the spell, and deliver it through your weapon, and all of your attacks made that turn are thus with your weapon. Which in this case is an unarmed strike, so the flurry prohibition against attacking w/ non-monk weapons has not been broken.
I'm asking why that does not work.
As I pointed out above. you can only flurry with your hands, and monk weapons on the list. Spell combat lets you use a spell as a second weapon. "Spell" is not on the monk weapon list that allows you to flurry. if you use the spell, you loose the flurry. the wording of spell combat is "This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast. " therefore it will break the flurry.
Two weapon fighting allows full attacks too, but if your fighting with non-monk weapons you cannot TWF and flurry... same same
|
|
Again, I think that people may have missed my point...ANYONE can deliver a touch spell through an unarmed strike. Sorcerer, Wizard, Witch, Cleric, Druid, ANYONE. When using an unarmed strike to deliver a touch spell you are SPECIFICALLY NOT using Spellstrike.
no I get you and you are correct. Spell strike, however, is dependent on spell combat. You must cast the spell to be able to spell strike with it.
this isn't what I was excited about. it's the fact that I can use the arcane pool to pump his fists with niffty effects like so: "At 1st level, a magus can expend 1 point from his arcane pool as a swift action to grant any weapon he is holding a +1 enhancement bonus for 1 minute. For every four levels beyond 1st, the weapon gains another +1 enhancement bonus, to a maximum of +5 at 17th level. These bonuses can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weapon enhancement to a maximum of +5. Multiple uses of this ability do not stack with themselves.
At 5th level, these bonuses can be used to add any of the following weapon properties: dancing, flaming, flaming burst, frost, icy burst, keen, shock, shocking burst, speed, or vorpal. Adding these properties consumes an amount of bonus equal to the property's base price modifier (see the Magic Weapon Special Ability Descriptions). These properties are added to any the weapon already has, but duplicates do not stack. If the weapon is not magical, at least a +1 enhancement bonus must be added before any other properties can be added. These bonuses and properties are decided when the arcane pool point is spent and cannot be changed until the next time the magus uses this ability. These bonuses do not function if the weapon is wielded by anyone other than the magus."
since it states that these stack up to +5, when the ki pool comes on line I can throw those together and while I might not be able to use Dancing, Keen or Vorpal on his fists, as a Monk of the Empty hand I can use them on anything he grabs...
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Er... While the result is correct, I think the way you got there is wrong.
When I was looking at the same thing, I ran into this incompatibility before I ever got to weapon types:
Starting at 1st level, a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action.
As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action
Besides that, aren't there spells you can "hold the charge" on that you could spellstrike flurry? I seem to recall there being one druid spell that produced fireballs you could throw SMB style that might be a candidate.
|
|
Right, you can hold the charge on a spell, but that means he can take a full attack action to attack and cast a spell (attack cannot be flurry because he's duel wielding and spell is not a monk weapon), then hold the charge and flurry next round with the first hit setting off the spell... that's fine and k.o. dokely with me.
I just wanted to make sure arcane pool can buff his fists. Hence the reason for the post. Since it can, then I can make them +1 weapons, eventually make them flame bursting or the like, and give him Pool strikes later... and bane.... and ghost touch... you get the point...
|
|
Don't forget that it will stack with amulet of mighty fists!
True, but I was hoping to keep the amulet slot open for other things, but it is a possibility as well.
I think the biggest thing people are missing in my question is "does this make the monk better in combat" I.e. the Magus is secondary and thus those cool class features of the magus,like Spell combat, while still nice in this build, are backseat options. Spell strike, as you Sir Galahad have pointed out, is all but useless in this build. Can be good in certain situations, like using a pool cue to deliver a spell on the fly (empty hand monk), but as a monk, I want to be flurrying on my attacks as much as possible.