I'm making a Paladin of Serenrae, a Dervish Dancer who uses no shield and no armor. I realize that the spell only lasts a round, but if it works on Bracers of Armor as it does on armor then it could be quite effective in the right moment.
Invoking this litany strengthens your defenses. Any enhancement bonus your armor has is doubled and you are immune to fear. While subject to this spell, the target cannot be the target of another spell that has the word "litany" in the title.
I suppose the question comes down to what is meant by 'your armor'. Does it mean 'your leather or metal armor' or does it mean 'the thing providing you with your armor bonus' which bracers clearly do. Bracers have an armor enhancement bonus and can be enchanted with the same special qualities as armor. The two do not stack because they provide the same sort of bonus.
It works on bracers of armor because the mechanical effect is on the enhancement bonus that is provided.
It comes down to your GM, I would personally say that they simply overlap and there is no strengthening
What simply overlaps?
If enchanting +4 chainmail with this spell it briefly becomes +8 chainmail... I would think that enchanting +4 Bracers of Armor would do the same thing, no?
It works on bracers of armor because the mechanical effect is on the enhancement bonus that is provided.
That was my assumption, but thanks for the clarification. Its a rock-solid enough interpretation of the RAW to make it inarguable, correct?
Enchantment bonuses or bonuses of the same type do not work together. I am also unsure of whether casting a spell on an existing enchantment would actually boost it...
As a GM I would personally rule no as it states armour, not armour bonus.
The spell specifically says that 1) you are casting the spell on the enhancement and 2) that you are boosting it. Consider Bracers of Armor to be armor that provides an AC bonus of +0 with no penalties to movement or skill checks.
Armor Kilts would be cheaper. Nice suggestion BBT.
I'm making a Paladin of Serenrae, a Dervish Dancer who uses no shield and no armor. I realize that the spell only lasts a round, but if it works on Bracers of Armor as it does on armor then it could be quite effective in the right moment.
Invoking this litany strengthens your defenses. Any enhancement bonus your armor has is doubled and you are immune to fear. While subject to this spell, the target cannot be the target of another spell that has the word "litany" in the title.
I suppose the question comes down to what is meant by 'your armor'. Does it mean 'your leather or metal armor' or does it mean 'the thing providing you with your armor bonus' which bracers clearly do. Bracers have an armor enhancement bonus and can be enchanted with the same special qualities as armor. The two do not stack because they provide the same sort of bonus.
I am afraid this won't work:
These items appear to be wrist or arm guards. They surround the wearer with An invisible but tangible field of force, granting him an armor bonus of +1 to +8, just as though he were wearing armor. Both bracers must be worn for the magic to be effective.
You gain an armor bonus from the bracers, not enhancement bonus to armor. If the latter was the case, you could just put on a full plate for +9 armor bonus and add bracers +8 which would enhance them to a +17 armor.
So in your case the enhancement bonus to armor would be +0, thus the litany would double that to ... +0.Using armor with actual enhancement bonuses on them is the way to go here, or getting a magic vestment spell cast on you right before that litany spell :-)
enhancement increases affect the overall armor bonus.
The spell increases the enhancement aspect of the armor bonus.
Even an +1 full plate has a +10 armor bonus. The spell would however double the +1 aspect.
enhancement increases affect the overall armor bonus.
The spell increases the enhancement aspect of the armor bonus.
Even an +1 full plate has a +10 armor bonus. The spell would however double the +1 aspect.
I am not sure - are you replying to me? Because then we agree... :-)
I am afraid this won't work:
These items appear to be wrist or arm guards. They surround the wearer with An invisible but tangible field of force, granting him an armor bonus of +1 to +8, just as though he were wearing armor. Both bracers must be worn for the magic to be effective.
You gain an armor bonus from the bracers, not enhancement bonus to armor. If the latter was the case, you could just put on a full plate for +9 armor bonus and add bracers +8 which would enhance them to a +17 armor.
So in your case the enhancement bonus to armor would be +0, thus the litany would double that to ... +0.Using armor with actual enhancement bonuses on them is the way to go here, or getting a magic vestment spell cast on you right before that litany spell :-)
+1
I am not sure - are you replying to me? Because then we agree... :-)enhancement increases affect the overall armor bonus.
The spell increases the enhancement aspect of the armor bonus.
Even an +1 full plate has a +10 armor bonus. The spell would however double the +1 aspect.
I was disagreeing, but I changed my mind. :)
If you have a +1 bracer of armor and you grade I think the intent was for the bonus to be an enhancement bonus, but I can't prove it so I have to go by RAW which never mentions an enhancement bonus.
I'm making a Paladin of Serenrae, a Dervish Dancer who uses no shield and no armor. I realize that the spell only lasts a round, but if it works on Bracers of Armor as it does on armor then it could be quite effective in the right moment.
Invoking this litany strengthens your defenses. Any enhancement bonus your armor has is doubled and you are immune to fear. While subject to this spell, the target cannot be the target of another spell that has the word "litany" in the title.
I suppose the question comes down to what is meant by 'your armor'. Does it mean 'your leather or metal armor' or does it mean 'the thing providing you with your armor bonus' which bracers clearly do. Bracers have an armor enhancement bonus and can be enchanted with the same special qualities as armor. The two do not stack because they provide the same sort of bonus.
I am afraid this won't work:
These items appear to be wrist or arm guards. They surround the wearer with An invisible but tangible field of force, granting him an armor bonus of +1 to +8, just as though he were wearing armor. Both bracers must be worn for the magic to be effective.
You gain an armor bonus from the bracers, not enhancement bonus to armor. If the latter was the case, you could just put on a full plate for +9 armor bonus and add bracers +8 which would enhance them to a +17 armor.
So in your case the enhancement bonus to armor would be +0, thus the litany would double that to ... +0.
This last line is simply wrong.
Full Plate Armor (+9 AC), ehancement bonus (+1 AC)
Litany of Defense doubles the +1 not the +9.
Bracers of Armor (+0 AC), enhancement bonus (+4)
Litany of Defense doubles the +4, not the +0.
Its really that simple.
I'm making a Paladin of Serenrae, a Dervish Dancer who uses no shield and no armor. I realize that the spell only lasts a round, but if it works on Bracers of Armor as it does on armor then it could be quite effective in the right moment.
Invoking this litany strengthens your defenses. Any enhancement bonus your armor has is doubled and you are immune to fear. While subject to this spell, the target cannot be the target of another spell that has the word "litany" in the title.
I suppose the question comes down to what is meant by 'your armor'. Does it mean 'your leather or metal armor' or does it mean 'the thing providing you with your armor bonus' which bracers clearly do. Bracers have an armor enhancement bonus and can be enchanted with the same special qualities as armor. The two do not stack because they provide the same sort of bonus.
I am afraid this won't work:
These items appear to be wrist or arm guards. They surround the wearer with An invisible but tangible field of force, granting him an armor bonus of +1 to +8, just as though he were wearing armor. Both bracers must be worn for the magic to be effective.
You gain an armor bonus from the bracers, not enhancement bonus to armor. If the latter was the case, you could just put on a full plate for +9 armor bonus and add bracers +8 which would enhance them to a +17 armor.
So in your case the enhancement bonus to armor would be +0, thus the litany would double that to ... +0.
This last line is simply wrong.
Full Plate Armor (+9 AC), ehancement bonus (+1 AC)
Litany of Defense doubles the +1 not the +9.Bracers of Armor (+0 AC), enhancement bonus (+4)
Litany of Defense doubles the +4, not the +0.Its really that simple.
You cannot give an enhancement bonus with bracers, just armor bonus and special qualities.
I've always thought Bracers should be enchantable personally. They grant Armor Bonus, not enhancement bonus. So I've always thought they should be able to be enchanted like normal armor, but then not allowed to put special abilities on except as enhancements.
I may so houserule it in my own games. I don't feel it's overpowered, given the cost of Bracers at AC 8 (with up to a +13 AC with a +5 enhancement).
But its the internet, and he disagreed. Doesn't that make him wrong by default, in the OPs eyes?
I've always thought Bracers should be enchantable personally. They grant Armor Bonus, not enhancement bonus. So I've always thought they should be able to be enchanted like normal armor, but then not allowed to put special abilities on except as enhancements.
I may so houserule it in my own games. I don't feel it's overpowered, given the cost of Bracers at AC 8 (with up to a +13 AC with a +5 enhancement).
I don't quite get what you mean. You can already give them special abilities, you are just limited by
- a total bonus equivalent of +8, so you could have +7 armor and light fortification +1 for a +7 light fortification bracers of armor for the cost of a +8 bracers of armor- no flat cost enhancements
So apart from removing the +8 limit - what are you aiming for?
When armor is improved by adding AC it is an enhancement bonus.
Bracers that are improved upon are just given a normal armor bonus.
He would have the max armor bonus to be at 8, and still have an enhancement bonus of +5 to be added bring them to a 13.
When armor is improved by adding AC it is an enhancement bonus.
Bracers that are improved upon are just given a normal armor bonus.
He would have the max armor bonus to be at 8, and still have an enhancement bonus of +5 to be added bring them to a 13.
If that's what he means, I wonder what the price tag of that would be. Theoretically fine, though probably too expensive. On the other hand, bracers are so much better than ordinary armor (protects against incorporeal, no ASF or ACP, ...), that it might prove a problem later on.
Bracers and Litany definitely don't work together. They are a magic item, not armor, that grants an armor bonus, not enhancement bonus. Nothing to target, nothing to double.
Bracers and Litany definitely don't work together. They are a magic item, not armor that grants an armor bonus, not enhancement bonus. Nothing to target, nothing to double.
I'm sorry but do you know what bracers are?
Bracers and Litany definitely don't work together. They are a magic item, not armor that grants an armor bonus, not enhancement bonus. Nothing to target, nothing to double.I'm sorry but do you know what bracers are?
Wrist guards for preventing injuries from using a bow. In Pathfinder they are an item not placed on the armor list and not significantly defensive enough to provide a non magical Armor Bonus.
A lot of monks would be very unhappy were bracers to become actual armor.
Bracers and Litany definitely don't work together. They are a magic item, not armor, that grants an armor bonus, not enhancement bonus. Nothing to target, nothing to double.
I absolutely stand corrected. Missed my perception roll on this one I guess.
Not a problem Wiggz, the rule-set can get fairly technical with things like this.