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Weapon focus (grapple), why does this exist? If you are grappling with a weapon, like those with the grapple weapon property, does weapon focus apply? Would it be weapon focus(weapon in question) or weapon focus(grapple)? Would enchantment bonuses apply to cmb rolls with a grapple weapon? Are there other combat maneuvers that you can take weapon focus with, such as weapon focus(dirty trick)? If not, why is grapple an exception?
The body part performing the grapple is the weapon, and any enhancement bonuses to that weapon, such as a bite, would apply to the grapple check.
Is it printed, literally, somewhere? It may be a hold-over from 3E, where Weapon Focus (grapple) was specifically listed as an option and left a lot of people confused back then, too.
Any weapon you can use with a combat maneuver you can apply bonuses that weapon grants on the check, since it's an attack roll. So if you had a "grapple weapon" (natural attack with the grab ability?) and weapon focus on that weapon, it should apply on grapple checks.
Yes. If you have weapon focus(bite), and the bite was making the grapple then that would apply to the grapple check.
I think that is a holdover from 3.5. It does deserve an FAQ though.
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Weapon focus (grapple), why does this exist? If you are grappling with a weapon, like those with the grapple weapon property, does weapon focus apply? Would it be weapon focus(weapon in question) or weapon focus(grapple)? Would enchantment bonuses apply to cmb rolls with a grapple weapon? Are there other combat maneuvers that you can take weapon focus with, such as weapon focus(dirty trick)? If not, why is grapple an exception?
Because usually grapple is used with your body parts and when u dont have two hands free u get a -4 penalty on the maneuver roll, Weapon Focus(Unarmed Strike)applies to grapple.
When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver,
make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your
normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have
on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These
bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to
perform the maneuver.
I have never heard of grapple weapons before. Can you state an example?
Weapon focus (grapple), why does this exist? If you are grappling with a weapon, like those with the grapple weapon property, does weapon focus apply? Would it be weapon focus(weapon in question) or weapon focus(grapple)? Would enchantment bonuses apply to cmb rolls with a grapple weapon? Are there other combat maneuvers that you can take weapon focus with, such as weapon focus(dirty trick)? If not, why is grapple an exception?Because usually grapple is used with your body parts and when u dont have two hands free u get a -4 penalty on the maneuver roll, Weapon Focus(Unarmed Strike)applies to grapple.
I have never heard of grapple weapons before. Can you state an example?When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver,
make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your
normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have
on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These
bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to
perform the maneuver.
+1
This has never once confused me. Just as you can take ray to use the feat for your magical ray attacks, so you can take it for grapple to use when you are physically grappling an opponent, thus helping out unarmed attackers.
I found the Garrote in the Adventurer's Armory, it is a two-handed weapon, doing 1d6 slashing dmg on a succesfull hit and although it has the grapple special quality the text in the book for the garrote states different from the succesful critical from your link.
Garrote: A garrote is a length of wire or thin rope with wooden handles at both ends. The wire is placed across a victim's throat and crossed behind the neck; when the handles are pulled tight, the garrote strangles him. In order for you to use a garrote, your opponent must be helpless or unaware of you. You must make a grapple check (though you avoid the –4 penalty for not having two hands free) to successfully begin garroting your opponent. Sneak attack damage does not apply to a garrote. Your garroted opponent must make a concentration check (DC 20 + your CMB + level of the spell he’s casting) to cast a spell with a verbal component, use a command word item, or use any magic requiring speech. You gain the following additional option when grappling with a garrote.
Choke: You cut off your target’s air supply so he has to hold his breath (see Suffocation on page 445 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook, and the Swim skill on page 108). Any round you do not maintain the choke, your opponent can take a breath and restart when he has to begin making Constitution checks.
Either way, Garrote is a legit weapon thus making Weapon Focus(garrote) work with the special grapple ability from the AA towards grappling your unaware opponents by RAW imo.
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There's a bit of misinformation (or at least unclear information) in this thread (though the correct info is a bit hidden in some cases), so let me clear some things up:
1. Not every combat maneuver uses a weapon. You can only apply weapon-specific bonuses (such as enhancement bonus, Weapon Focus[that weapon], etc) to a maneuver if it actually employs that weapon. By default, grapple does not use a weapon - and "unarmed strike" and natural weapons count as weapons for this purpose. Therefore, unless your weapon has the "grapple" quality, you cannot employ it in the maneuver and cannot benefit from its bonuses. In the example of a wolf's free trip, however, an exception is made: if you get a free maneuver as a result of hitting with an attack (as with bite-->grab), then you get the bonuses associated with the attack applied to the grapple check.
2. There is no printed example of Weapon Focus(some maneuver other than grapple) existing. But I bet most GMs would let you take it anyway. Not likely to break anything, you know?
If everyone was already on the same page on all this, then nevermind. I just wanted to clarify just in case. :)
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The thing is, why would weapon focus(grapple) exist, if there is no weapon focus(trip), or weapon focus(dirty trick)? Why the exception?
Well, Dirty Trick didn't exist when the CRB came out. :P
As for Trip, well... Beats me. A home GM would probably allow it (but not allow it to stack with WF on the weapon you use for the trip).
I have never heard in Pathfinder at least the Weapon Focus(grapple). Maybe as StreamOfTheSky said it is a remnant from 3e or something. A far as Weapon focus(Trip) is concerned, there is no need for such a feat since you have the Weapon focus(Flail) for example, benefiting your weapon as well as your trip maneuver. Now for weapon focus(dirty trick) i cant tell, since its description is quite vague and the GM is the final arbiter of what can be accomplished with this maneuver.
So, you could take Weapon Specialization(grapple)? How the heck would that work?
First i guess you mean Weapon Profficiency not Specialization. Second no, grapple isnt a weapon, its a special combat maneuver. And it seems you havent read the post from Jiggy which is quite self-explanatory on the situation.
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I have never heard in Pathfinder at least the Weapon Focus(grapple).
Whenever you're not sure if something made it into Pathfinder or not, the first step is to check the Pathfinder Core Rules:
You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for the purposes of this feat.
For future reference, the official PRD (not to be confused with the fan-made SRD) is available for free from the same domain (Paizo.com) as the messageboards, so even if the SRD is blocked at work or whatever, if you have access to the boards you have access to the PRD. :)
To play devil's advocate here:
Weapon Focus (Combat)
Choose one type of weapon. You can also choose unarmed
strike or grapple (or ray, if you are a spellcaster) as your
weapon for the purposes of this feat.
Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected weapon, base
attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on all attack rolls you make
using the selected weapon.
I guess the real FAQ question here is if Weapon Focus(Grapple) benefits both the normal grapple with the two free hands and the weapons with the special grapple ability:P
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To play devil's advocate here:
I guess the real FAQ question here is if Weapon Focus(Grapple) benefits both the normal grapple with the two free hands and the weapons with the special grapple ability:PWeapon Focus (Combat)
Choose one type of weapon. You can also choose unarmed
strike or grapple (or ray, if you are a spellcaster) as your
weapon for the purposes of this feat.
Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected weapon, base
attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on all attack rolls you make
using the selected weapon.
I can't think of any grammatically-sound way of interpreting Weapon Focus (grapple) to exclude weapon-based grapples.
I have never heard in Pathfinder at least the Weapon Focus(grapple).Whenever you're not sure if something made it into Pathfinder or not, the first step is to check the Pathfinder Core Rules:
You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for the purposes of this feat.For future reference, the official PRD (not to be confused with the fan-made SRD) is available for free from the same domain (Paizo.com) as the messageboards, so even if the SRD is blocked at work or whatever, if you have access to the boards you have access to the PRD. :)
Yeah just minutes ago noticed that, im punishing myself in shame with a whip right now:(
There's a bit of misinformation (or at least unclear information) in this thread (though the correct info is a bit hidden in some cases), so let me clear some things up:
1. Not every combat maneuver uses a weapon. You can only apply weapon-specific bonuses (such as enhancement bonus, Weapon Focus[that weapon], etc) to a maneuver if it actually employs that weapon.
That information has changed since then which is what I was going off of.
If you want to make a trip combat maneuver, do you have to use a weapon with the trip special feature?
No. When making a trip combat maneuver, you don't have to use a weapon with the trip special feature--you can use any weapon. For example, you can trip with a longsword or an unarmed strike, even though those weapons don't have the trip special feature.
Note that there is an advantage to using a weapon with the trip special feature (a.k.a. a "trip weapon") when making a trip combat maneuver: if your trip attack fails by 10 or more, you can drop the trip weapon instead of being knocked prone.On a related note, you don't have to use a weapon with the disarm special feature (a.k.a. a "disarm weapon") when making a disarm combat maneuver--you can use any weapon.
Note: This is a revision of this FAQ entry based on a Paizo blog about combat maneuvers with weapons. The previous version of this FAQ stated that using a trip weapon was the only way you could apply weapon enhancement bonuses, Weapon Focus bonuses, and other such bonuses to the trip combat maneuver roll. The clarification in that blog means any weapon used to trip applies these bonuses when making a trip combat maneuver, so this FAQ was updated to omit the "only trip weapons let you apply these bonuses" limitation.
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Read my post (and that FAQ and blog) carefully, concerro. I just said that not every maneuver uses a weapon. That's still the case. The blog post and updated FAQ shifted Trip its debated status in the "not weapon based" category to a clear position in the "weapon based by default" category.
But the two categories still exist.
Currently, Disarm, Sunder and Trip all use weapons by default. A trip weapon can be employed in a Drag or Reposition as well. All other maneuvers (plus Drag/Reposition if your weapon doesn't have the trip quality) are still weaponless unless you have a special weapon quality or other exception.
There is no weapon focus (grapple). www.d20pfsrd.com is not the official prd.
There is, read Weapon Focus from Core Rulebook, or you will face Jiggy's wrath as i did:P
Shadowcat the prd has the same wording. Bear in mind that they often copy and paste form the prd.
Weapon Focus (Combat)
Choose one type of weapon. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for the purposes of this feat.
Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected weapon, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on all attack rolls you make using the selected weapon.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon
Jiggy:You are correct. I thought I read that the weapon always applied if the maneuver was applicable. That sucks and the tetori monk just lost a few cool points.
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So, weapon focus(grapple) exists for time you are grappling without using a weapon? I really cannot see a situation where one would be grappling, without using at least an unarmed strike. I know there are combat maneuvers that theoretically use no weapons, but most do. This must exist for things like grappling using spells. I am somewhat coming to terms with this feat. Am I right so far?
Anytime you grapple you get the +1 from the feat.
I am going to houserule it so that any weapon that can be used to grapple adds its bonus(from feats and magic, etc) to attacks though. It just makes things easier for me that way.
An unarmed strike can be used to grapple, and bonuses to it apply to grapple checks made with an unarmed strike, as noted by SKR.
You have a quote for that? Here is what I saw in the FAQ.
For other maneuvers, either you’re not using a weapon at all, or the weapon is incidental to making the maneuver and its bonuses shouldn’t make you better at attempting the maneuver. For example, just because you have a +5 greatsword doesn’t mean it gives you a +5 bonus on dirty trick checks (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player’s Guide 320), and just because you have a +5 dagger doesn’t mean it gives you a +5 bonus on grapple checks. Of course, the GM is free to rule that in certain circumstances, a creature can apply weapon bonuses for these maneuvers, such as when using a sap in a dirty trick maneuver to hit an opponent in a sensitive spot.
An unarmed strike can be used to grapple, and bonuses to it apply to grapple checks made with an unarmed strike, as noted by SKR.You have a quote for that? Here is what I saw in the FAQ.
For other maneuvers, either you’re not using a weapon at all, or the weapon is incidental to making the maneuver and its bonuses shouldn’t make you better at attempting the maneuver. For example, just because you have a +5 greatsword doesn’t mean it gives you a +5 bonus on dirty trick checks (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player’s Guide 320), and just because you have a +5 dagger doesn’t mean it gives you a +5 bonus on grapple checks. Of course, the GM is free to rule that in certain circumstances, a creature can apply weapon bonuses for these maneuvers, such as when using a sap in a dirty trick maneuver to hit an opponent in a sensitive spot.
It was an remark posted by SKR several posts down.
Later, he says that he's going to confer with Jason before posting an official answer. Still no official post AFAIK.
So, barring special circumstances, you still can't use Unarmed Strikes to grapple.
I think that is what I was remembering when I thought the unarmed strike or natural attacks would work.
I do hope they change it.
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So do any bonuses my whip has apply if I grapple with Greater whip Mastery?
Without a grapple weapon, you just grapple your foe, with your mind?
Just when I think I am starting to figure things out, there is something else.
Unarmed Strike is descried as a punch, kick, headbutt, etc. Grappling a foe with your hand is not the same as grappling them with a punch.
I'm sure there could be a situation in which you do, in fact, grapple with a punch or kick, but that would be one of the special circumstances to which the FAQ refers.
For the monk, his whole body is an unarmed strike. What is he grappling with?
Not true.
A monk's attacks may be with fist, elbows, knees, and feet.
You could even extend this to mean that a Monk can strike with any part of his body. The sentiment from my previous post still holds. A strike is not the same as a grapple.
A punch or palm strike is not the same as grabbing someone. Elbowing someone in the face is not the same as putting them in a choke hold.
Same way a sword pommel is not a sword. The monk is traind to hit hard and has some advantages when grappleing but his unarmed strike is not waht allows him to grapple.
Same way a sword pommel is not a sword. The monk is traind to hit hard and has some advantages when grappleing but his unarmed strike is not waht allows him to grapple.
Correct. Monks do not have Grab.
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An attack with a sword pommel, is still an attack with a sword, though in an improvised fashion. We are not talking about using weapons in improvised ways though.
A creature need not have feet, hands, or a head, to make an unarmed strike, but it requires a physical body. When you grapple, you use your physical body, the same thing you use to make an unarmed strike.
Not every feat or use of a feat is best for PCs. Sometimes they work better for monsters. A creature with Improved Grab might benefit from Weapon Focus (grapple) more than a PC. Most monsters don't have Improved Unarmed Strike. I'm working under the assumption you can grapple with an unarmed attack instead of getting into the argument about that.