Zulfur
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I am looking for ideas on how to best deal with a character that uses a whip to give him a 15' reach and he trips everything in combat. He never causes damage really, but he trips everything so the others can get the reap the creatures -4 AC for prone and the free AOO on standing which takes a move action.
Basically he trips and everyone cannot not get hit at all for the rest of combat as the creatures try to stand and get beat down by the group with AOOs. Rinse and repeat for the next creature.
Currently I have resorted to keep the intelligent monsters attacking from the prone, animal INT would make a boar or bear keep trying to stand to attack. But I need better alternatives. At the higher levels I will have multi-legged creatures and floting or flying creatures, but I am having troble now at the lower levels.
Thanks for any replies.
Thalin
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Well, he only gets so many attacks, and whips don't threaten AOOs (polearm trippers are actually more difficult). Even if he maxed out he's probably under 50% against "strong" monsters for tripping, and lots of legs make it even more difficult. If the enemy is surrounded they can full attack @ -4 instead of granting AOOs; and casters can go defensive.
Trippers are one of the most effective melee, but far from overpowering. Let them have their moments, but high CMB monsters, flyers, and insect-like creatures are all but immune to them. Creatures en masse work well, especially against whip-trips.
| DJEternalDarkness |
I've found that somedays you sit back and take it, other days you overwhelm them with oozes, elementals, and flying things that can't be tripped.
Really it's a give and take, sometimes as a DM you feel like all you're doing is giving, but thems the breaks.
However, as Thalin said, whips don't allow AoO unless you get it from a PrC or something like that (the Whipmaster from the Sword and Fist springs to mind).
| MurphysParadox |
Tripping works well on things with 2 legs. Less or more and it isn't so useful (CR 1/3 spider with a 24 CMD vs trip). Snakes, spiders, stirges, elementals, carrion crawlers, oozes, wolves, and birds are all good examples for low level creatures with high trip resistance. Also ranged attackers with precise shot to ping the whip user.
Beyond that, after tripping a monster or two, have the rest of the intelligent critters run in on him. Even if there's a PC in the way, he or she can only get one AOO per round, so the first goblin dies but the other three get through to swarm the whip user.
It isn't really about ganging up to kill the tripper, it is about making target dangerous to him, so he has to ignore supporting the fighters to go and take care of his own threat. And to cost him some actions in healing or hiding.
| StreamOfTheSky |
Use crossbowmen, not archers. Crossbows can be fired while prone. :)
They'll provoke for shooting and have -4 AC versus his attacks, but you said he isn't much of a treat for damage anyway.
It's really easy to shut down a tripper, though. Many legs, flight, creatures like serpents and oozes, pretty much anyone with the Monkey Style feat...
| Umbranus |
Just to add some more options:
Give some humanoid foes imp. trip to give them +2 CMD vs. trip attacks.
The sacred mountain monk becomes untrippable at some level.
Use concealment or incorporeal creatures.
For some fun encounter make an alchemist who has additional legs instead of additional arms.
And as for the standing up part: I think there are some options that give the ability to stand up faster and some even without provoking.
And a feat that lets you make 5ft. steps while prone.
| Quatar |
One thing I've not seen mentioned yet:
Melee weapon with reach use the cover rules for ranged attacks! Which often causes even a single other person near the target or between the attacker and target for the target to have soft-cover which gives them a +4 to AC, which also affects CMD.
Make sure to learn how cover works for him (once figured out you recognize it relatively fast), and enforce it.
If thats something you hadn't done all the time, then that alone might make the trip fighter alot less dangerous.
However this person probably invested lots of feats and resources into becoming a good triper, apperently likes it, and maybe is not very good at straight out combat. While I feel your pain, it would be sort of unfair to throw only "hard to trip" or trip-immune monsters at him from now on, because that's basicly a kick to the nuts.
From time to time, so he learns theres more to it, sure, but not exclusively.