Hey James (or whoever reads this and is in the know),
I'll be playing a Monk for the first time at some point in the very near future, so just wanted a little clarification on something.
As a Monk bonus feat, you can select Improved Trip without needing to meet the prerequisites. This includes Combat Expertise and an Intelligence base of 13 Wisdom.
Now, all that Greater Trip asks for in the main list is Improved Trip and a BAB of 6. Yet, when you scroll down to the description, it states you need Combat Expertise, Wisdom 13 and Improved Trip.
However, it's my understanding that Greater Trip is only saying you need Combat Expertise because you usually need that to gain Improved Trip. Only the Monk class ignores this and allows you to have it regardless.
So, what I'd like to know is if Greater Trip was actually only intended to require Improved Trip, and if the Monk was designed to be able to advance from Improved Trip to Greater Trip without the need to have Combat Expertise on his feat list?
To me, it makes sense to work this way. I just see the Monks way of getting Improved Trip as a faster way than normal, because they can get it without having to have Combat Expertise. So, it'd make sense to be able to advance straight on to Greater Trip when you meet all of the requirements except for Combat Expertise.
Is this how it was intended?
Yar.
uhm... Greater Trip has the following prerequisites: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, base attack bonus +6, Int 13.
A monk only gains Improved Trip as a potential bonus feat. Should he wish to later gain Greater Trip, he will need to meet all of it's prerequisites.
That is the way the rules are written. Seeing as how it's been like this for the last several years, I'd be willing to make a guess that that is how it is intended as well. Sure it may make sense to allow a monk to ignore those prereqs as well, but that is not the RAW, and as such I highly doubt that is RAI either.
~P
Devs normally ignore thread where they are specifically called out.
Yes it was intended to require improved trip and combat expertise.
Text always trumps the table whenever they disagree.
edit:added combat expertise for purposes of clarification.
The game has always required you to have all requirements. If an exception is not specifically spelled out then you can't get it. Personally I think the monks should have been able to get greater trip later, but when the subject came up in the past the devs figured the monk was ok as is.
Yar.
uhm... Greater Trip has the following prerequisites: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, base attack bonus +6, Int 13.
A monk only gains Improved Trip as a potential bonus feat. Should he wish to later gain Greater Trip, he will need to meet all of it's prerequisites.
That is the way the rules are written. Seeing as how it's been like this for the last several years, I'd be willing to make a guess that that is how it is intended as well. Sure it may make sense to allow a monk to ignore those prereqs as well, but that is not the RAW, and as such I highly doubt that is RAI either.
~P
Sorry, but both RAW and RAI is "screw monks, we don't want them to be as good at tripping as they were in 3E." Since Greater Trip in PF is basically 3E's Improved Trip, which monk could get w/o any pre-reqs at level 6, as opposed to level 9 in PF if they magically had 35 point buy or no stat roll lower than 12 or something.
I'd like to think most DMs would be willing to houserule to allow Greater Trip for monks to take w/o Int 13 and Expertise, but the official PF answer seems to be UC's Vicious Stomp feat, which is unarmed only and very similar to Greater Trip, but inferior in almost every fashion.
One of many reasons why I make feats like Improved Trip scale. In my games, if you have Improved Trip, then once your BAB hits +6, you also have Greater Trip. But yeah, by RAW, monks can't get Greater Trip without an absurd amount of investment, one of many ways in which the class which ought to be the best at maneuvers isn't.
Yar.
Sorry, but both RAW and RAI is "screw monks, we don't want them to be as good at tripping as they were in 3E." ...
I highly disagree with this statement. It is simply not true. RAW is Rules As Written, and nowhere does it say "screw monks". Also, Tripping in PF is a different mechanic than it was in 3.x, so "we don't want them to be as good at tripping as they were in 3E" is an invalid statement as well. 3.x tripping also gave you free extra attacks. That is no longer true (in PF), so there really is little point in comparing 3.x Tripping to PF Tripping.
... if they magically had 35 point buy or no stat roll lower than 12 or something.
Wow, really? I'm sorry, but I can't take you seriously if you truly believe that the only way for a monk to get Greater Trip is to "magically had 35 point buy or no stat roll lower than 12 or something."
GM's are well within their rights to House Rule that Monks can qualify for Greater Trip with only Improved Trip as a prereq. But understand that that IS a House Rule. That is not RAW.
~P
Wow, really? I'm sorry, but I can't take you seriously if you truly believe that the only way for a monk to get Greater Trip is to "magically had 35 point buy or no stat roll lower than 12 or something."
I was just throwing out a high number, I may have (slightly) exaggerated. But monk needs str, dex, con, and wis before he can even think about int, and some people seem to abhor the idea of nuking charisma down to nothing. The whole point of getting the maneuver feats as bonus feats is to avoid the pre-reqs a monk would have a lot of trouble meeting, but PF spliiting them up into Improved/Greater and just giving monks Improved ones as bonus feats messed up that balance.
One of many reasons why I make feats like Improved Trip scale. In my games, if you have Improved Trip, then once your BAB hits +6, you also have Greater Trip. But yeah, by RAW, monks can't get Greater Trip without an absurd amount of investment, one of many ways in which the class which ought to be the best at maneuvers isn't.
It's pretty mixed then. StreamOfTheSky and Concerro both think the same as me, but both you and Pirate (Arrr, me hearty!) see it to not be the case.
I'm guessing it's going to be one of those topics that cause much debate and unless a Dev comes on to say otherwise, the question won't ever be answered.
Still, I like your idea about scaling up from Improved to Greater Trip as you level. I figured it made sense, so hopefully my GM/DM will allow this option for me as well.
The purpose of the Monk being able to obtain it without the need for Combat Expertise is just ambiguous to me, because in order to make it worthwhile, if it doesn't work how I believe it should, there is no real advantage to the Monk having it without the requirements at all.
I mean, unless of course you just want Improved Trip and don't want to progress it, but it makes sense for it to work in the way myself, Concerro and StreamOfTheSky believe it should....especially for a Martial Artist Monk.
I also have the required 13 Wisdom to use it, but just have no space for Combat Expertise in my build, so was really confused as to why you'd be given Improved Trip, but still need all of the requirements to take it to greater, when the Monk Class feature specifically states you do not need to meet the prerequisites.
I do not agree with you Bandavaar. You misread my statement. I said text trumps the table, and the text says....
<looks again>
I wrote it badly I was saying you need both feats. I will edit it(previous post).
I do not agree with you Bandavaar. You misread my statement. I said text trumps the table, and the text says....
<looks again>
I wrote it badly I was saying you need both feats. I will edit it(previous post).
Ah, now that you've corrected it, I see that. :)
I guess although StreamOfTheSky appears to be thinking the same as me, the moral of the story is that yes, many people think a Monk should have been able to get it in the same way they get Improved Trip, but as it's not specifically stated anywhere, they don't.
She does not agree with you rules wise. She thinks the monk should have been allowed to do it balance-wise, and in that regard I do agree with you.
Note that she says "Sorry, but both RAW and RAI is "screw monks, "
edit:Stream your avatar looks like a female so I am assuming you are female. Feel free to correct me if you are not a female.
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I have a player in a game I am currently GMing who has played a monk from 5th lvl to now 13th lvl, they had to take Combat Expertise in order to also take Greater Trip while receiving Improved Trip as a bonus feat, and the thing is a machine of tripping (and disarming, and grappling, etc.).
I don't think spending one of your feats on Combat Expertise "screws" your monk at all, especially considering that in PF you get a feat every odd-numbered level plus bonus feats.
Also, I can't speak for Mr. Jacobs but when these types of questions are asked in his thread about asking him questions he usually replies that he is not the person to ask about rules questions like this.
The actual answer, is "whatever your GM will allow", because that is Rule 0 and that is what matters most because that is the game you will be playing. To share my opinon as a GM, I almost always go by RAW unless there is a specific house rule that all of the players in my game and I have agreed on before play starts.
Also for a monk shifting the AC over from your attack sometimes makes you a god when somthing tries to maul your face off.
I guess so.
Ah well, it's just a shame it won't work as it means the Monk being able to get Improved Trip without the prerequisites is absolutely pointless as you still have to spend the same amount of feats to get Greater Trip.
I'm in a dilemma right now though, because my build is below, but I have no idea what to replace for Combat Expertise.
HP: 10
AC: 13
Touch: 13
Flat Footed: 11
Initiative: 2
Str: 17
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Wis: 12
Int: 14
Cha: 7
Fort: 4
Ref: 4
Will: 4
CMB: 3
CMD: 16
Monk feats:
Improved Unarmed Strike
Stunning Fist
Special Monk Feats:
1st level onwards - Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Grapple
6th level - Improved Trip, Mobility
10th level - Spring Attack
Normal feats:
Greater Trip
Greater Grapple
Pinning Rend
Vicious Stomp
jawbreaker
bonebreaker
neckbreaker
Power Attack (taking at first level)
Style feats:
Dragon Style
Dragon Ferocity
Might want to consider manuver master instead of martial artist as i think it can get greater trip without CE,
edit:Stream your avatar looks like a female so I am assuming you are female. Feel free to correct me if you are not a female.
Not female. :)
Not used to having to pick an avatar image w/o option of providing my own, and that was just the first one I saw that I thought looked cool.
Check yes they add all improved manuevers all greater and all strikes into the normal monk feats.
Might want to consider manuver master instead of martial artist as i think it can get greater trip without CE,
I thought about that, but Martial Artist is the best fit for my character concept, so changing Archetype really isn't an option.
One thing I did wonder though, was if you have Vicious Stomp (when an enemy falls prone - so after a trip - you get an AoO against it with an unarmed stike) and Greater Trip (you get an AoO against an enemy when you trip it), do these abilities both stack, giving you two AoO's in one round as well as your full attack action?
If it comes to it, I might just get rid of the Dragon Styles and put Combat Expertise in along with something else, as I see no other viable option to include Combat Expertise for Greater Trip.
Might want to consider manuver master instead of martial artist as i think it can get greater trip without CE,
Yeah, the Maneuver Master monk is kind of the proof that the vanilla monk can't get greater trip without meeting all the prerequisites, as the Maneuver Master adds all the Greater Maneuver feats to his bonus feat list. That's the RAW way to get Greater Trip on a monk for 'free'.
I would say no on the vicious stomp greater trip since you usually get only one AoO per action that grants one though ask your DM.
One thing I did wonder though, was if you have Vicious Stomp (when an enemy falls prone - so after a trip - you get an AoO against it with an unarmed stike) and Greater Trip (you get an AoO against an enemy when you trip it), do these abilities both stack, giving you two AoO's in one round as well as your full attack action?
Yes, they stack. As you said, you get the AoO from Greater Trip as a result of tripping them, and you get the AoO from Vicious Stomp as a result of them falling prone adjacent to you.
Didn't think about that reasoning Stream I revise my stance to sure and make sure to kick them while they are down.
Yes, they stack. As you said, you get the AoO from Greater Trip as a result of tripping them, and you get the AoO from Vicious Stomp as a result of them falling prone adjacent to you.
Ah good, I thought as much. :D
I've removed Dragon Ferocity for Combat Expertise and just kept Dragon Style, because running and charging through rough terrain and ally squares is still nice, along with the fact it allows me to deal 1 and a half times my Strength bonus on the first unarmed strike I make each round. At my current level, that would only give me 2 extra damage, but if I were to use my combat reflexes to make additional AoO's in one round, enabling me to trip for an AoO and stomp as an AoO, with that 2 extra damage on top, mixed with a flurry of blows and power attack, it seems like a pretty lethal combo. :)
Thanks very much for the help guys!
Hey James (or whoever reads this and is in the know),
I'll be playing a Monk for the first time at some point in the very near future, so just wanted a little clarification on something.
As a Monk bonus feat, you can select Improved Trip without needing to meet the prerequisites. This includes Combat Expertise and an Intelligence base of 13 Wisdom.
Now, all that Greater Trip asks for in the main list is Improved Trip and a BAB of 6. Yet, when you scroll down to the description, it states you need Combat Expertise, Wisdom 13 and Improved Trip.
However, it's my understanding that Greater Trip is only saying you need Combat Expertise because you usually need that to gain Improved Trip. Only the Monk class ignores this and allows you to have it regardless.
So, what I'd like to know is if Greater Trip was actually only intended to require Improved Trip, and if the Monk was designed to be able to advance from Improved Trip to Greater Trip without the need to have Combat Expertise on his feat list?
To me, it makes sense to work this way. I just see the Monks way of getting Improved Trip as a faster way than normal, because they can get it without having to have Combat Expertise. So, it'd make sense to be able to advance straight on to Greater Trip when you meet all of the requirements except for Combat Expertise.
Is this how it was intended?
In case you were unaware, there is a thread titled "ASK JAMES JACOBS QUESTION HERE"
PS: I will refrain from my normal rant on people who try to call out devs in posts and belittle the meaning of a forum and just say, if they wanted that much direct contact with you they'd give you their email.
Meeting the prerequisites for Greater trip isn't hard in all honesty. You already will meet two of them on your own, albeit you have to wait until level 8, when your BAB will be +6. By then, you'll have two ability score bonuses of your choice. So basically, you only need one feat and an Int of 13. By level 8, I don't think a 13 is going to be hard to reach.
Also, playing a monk made me get rid of two common misconceptions people have about the class (and most classes in general).
1. You don't need an 18 (or 17) in your strength. Having a 16 isn't bad at low levels, with only a .05 difference in your chance to hit anything compared to an 18 Strength. At later levels, you'll get belts of Strength and your ability increases to up your strength more. And while every little bit does help, a difference of one won't change much.
2. Wisdom is more important than Dex. Wisdom gives you your AC and unlike Dex, you still have it when flatfooted and against touch attacks. Wisdom makes your stunning fist better. And you naturally gain AC per level, not to mention the ki ability to get even more AC. I'd say that Str, Wis, and Con are a lot more important than Dex. I personally just got enough Dex to get some of the Dodge feats quicker, but that's just me and YMMV.
Any reason why you have Combat Reflexes? Just curious honestly.
Well, the Combat Reflexes is just because it looks like the best one for me to have from the Bonus Monk feats early on.
Later on, it'll allow me to do both of my AoO's in one round.
This is the first time I would have used a Monk, so I'm still unsure on some things, but I could always swap my Dex and Wis scores around, so I'd have a 12 Dex and 14 Wis instead. I guess that makes more sense.
As for the ki pool, the Martial Artist Monk doesn't get that. I think I like the concept of the Martial Artist more though, because I don't like the idea of praying to things constantly and often like characters with their own ideals, so the ability to choose any alignment was quite fun (I chose Chaotic Good).
The campaign is homebrew, with only about 1 or 2% of the world population left in existence. There aren't any places to craft magic weapons, or items in general, so I'm relying on my stats and am just going to put all of my skill points into Strength as I want to be able to deal massive damage.
My AC however, will suck for a long time, so I better hope I roll well on my HP rolls!
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I wouldn’t focus too heavily on AoO’s either. Because you don’t have reach you won’t be getting many AoO’s. When you finally get them you are hitting at ¾ BAB. You don’t get much from Power Attack in this scenario because it’s another penalty on your already pathetic attack roll.
It’s much the same with Spring Attack as you only get a single attack at ¾ BAB. Because you’re not a Rogue you don’t even get a chance to add extra sneak attack dice.
If you relied on your Acrobatics to move past enemies you could probably save a feat on Mobility...
If you 2-handed a Temple Sword you could open combat with a charge in order to get close to your enemy and make a single attack. You’d have to make this attack at ¾ BAB but you do get a +2 to hit because of the charge. This is also one of those rare scenarios where you actually get to apply 1.5x STR to your damage. If you’re using Power Attack you're negating the benefit of the charge, but breaking even with the other scenraio. You get a 3:1 return on damage though.
The next round you stand & Flurry with your Temple Sword 2-handed. You get to attack at full BAB and a get 3:1 on damage if using Power Attack.
Use your sword to Trip your foe. Because you took Improved Trip (without blowing a feat on Combat Expertise) you don’t provoke an AoO and you get a +2 bonus.
If successful you won’t get an AoO but you still get all the advantages of having them prone (+4 to hit essentially).
Throw in Stunning Fist during your next FOB. It's at +4 to hit, and if it works you’re likely getting even better odds at hitting with your follow up attack (which should be made with your Temple Sword 2-handed for that 3:1 return on Power Attack).
If they want to try standing up you finally get that AoO you’ve been waiting for!
Wash, rinse, repeat.
Note that if James comes to answer, he isn't a rules guy and has stated before that this answers are as a GM, hes a 'rule of cool' guy. His input is definitely helpful, but doesn't trump the text. The only two devs that trump the rule are Jason and Sean I think.
I wouldn’t focus too heavily on AoO’s either. Because you don’t have reach you won’t be getting many AoO’s. When you finally get them you are hitting at ¾ BAB. You don’t get much from Power Attack in this scenario because it’s another penalty on your already pathetic attack roll.
I'm not really focusing on AoO's. The only two reasons I chose Combat Reflexes is because you're very limited by the Monks list as to what you can choose as a bonus feat (the others are no good to me, where my character concept is concerned) and it would allow me to use my AoO when I trip an enemy and when he lands in the same round.
This allows me to open my flurry of blows with a trip attack, giving me an AoO from Greater Trip and Vicious Stomp, then I can continue my flurry of blows against his now lowered AC with a +4 to hit for him being downed.
By end game, I didn't think my Attack Bonus was that poor. I'd have a +6 Strength and my BAB with a normal hit would be 15, making a +21 to hit (24 with the first two Flurry of Blow strikes). Granted there are still high powered creatures I wouldn't even be able to touch, but that's where the other party members come in, boosting me up with Bull's Strength and lowering the enemies AC (if they so choose to do so).
It’s much the same with Spring Attack as you only get a single attack at ¾ BAB. Because you’re not a Rogue you don’t even get a chance to add extra sneak attack dice.
If you relied on your Acrobatics to move past enemies you could probably save a feat on Mobility...
Again, Mobility was the best option for me from the Monk Bonus Feats. If I could replace a Monk bonus feat with a normal feat, I would, but as I can't, it's best for one of my plans.
Being a Monk, I should technically have the most manoeuvrability and highest movement speed in the group, so for things that are highly dangerous, the plan was to run up to them (assuming level 20 - you can move 90 feet), punch, kick, headbutt them or whatever, then run away again. As long as I don't run past them, they won't get an AoO against me and I can keep whittling away their life without them ever being able to catch up to me (even though I'd only be dealing out one attack per round).
If you 2-handed a Temple Sword you could open combat with a charge in order to get close to your enemy and make a single attack. You’d have to make this attack at ¾ BAB but you do get a +2 to hit because of the charge. This is also one of those rare scenarios where you actually get to apply 1.5x STR to your damage. If you’re using Power Attack you're negating the benefit of the charge, but breaking even with the other scenraio. You get a 3:1 return on damage though.
The next round you stand & Flurry with your Temple Sword 2-handed. You get to attack at full BAB and a get 3:1 on damage if using Power Attack.
Use your sword to Trip your foe. Because you took Improved Trip (without blowing a feat on Combat Expertise) you don’t provoke an AoO and you get a +2 bonus.
If successful you won’t get an AoO but you still get all the advantages of having them prone (+4 to hit essentially).
I see where you're going with this, but I'm either going to buy a Temple Sword as backup (for this purpose) or just not use anything other than my own body as a weapon throughout the entire campaign. This is because the concept of my character is that he sees weapons as a cheap way to kill foe and feels that real strength comes from the power of ones own body and he wants to prove this theory to everyone.
Using a weapon would be to contradict himself and his own beliefs.
Throw in Stunning Fist during your next FOB. It's at +4 to hit, and if it works you’re likely getting even better odds at hitting with your follow up attack (which should be made with your Temple Sword 2-handed for that 3:1 return on Power Attack).
If they want to try standing up you finally get that AoO you’ve been waiting for!
Wash, rinse, repeat.
That's a nice idea as I wasn't sure if I'd use Stunning Fist or not, but seeing as I have a +2 Wisdom, I could combine Stunning Fist with Quivering Palm later on (at level 20) and unless they make a DC 22 Fortitude Save, they'd die.
If they're on the floor, that's a +4 to hit and if I've already hit them with Stunning Fist of Fatigue, that's a +6 to hit....then if they're paralysed, it automatically hits. :D
One question I have though is how imaginative can you be with your attacks, because if you go by RAW, any unarmed attack deals the same damage, but I don't know if it was intended for you to specifically be limited to just using your hands and feet, or if in a flurry of blows, you can make up a random combo, just for aesthetics?
Like, what I have in mind is at level 20:
Attack 1: Sweep the enemies legs out with a quick trip attack.
Attack 2: Punch enemy as he's falling down (AoO for falling enemy)
Attack 3: Stomp on enemy as he's down (AoO from Vicious Stomp)
Attack 4: Stomp again
Attack 5: Stomp again
Attack 6: stomp again
Attack 7: kick
Attack 8: jump on the enemy to pin him
Attack 9: grapple him, tearing his flesh away (Pinning Rend causing damage dice bleed damage)
Combo 2:
Attack 1: Punch with right hand
Attack 2: Punch with left hand
Attack 3: Uppercut
Attack 4: Headbutt
Attack 5: Roundhouse kick to the face
Attack 6: Slam back into them
Attack 7: Sweep legs out (with trip)
Attack 8: Stomp the enemy into the ground with left foot (AoO)
Attack 9: Stomp (with Vicious Stomp AoO) with right foot
Your title reads like a stalker love letter. Just saying.
Lol, excellent.
I don't usually call people out specifically on any board, but I wanted clarification and figured he was the best person to ask in this instance. Still, other members have answered me, so that's also fine and nice of them. :)
I know a few members got annoyed with me asking for him outright, but that's their problem. I don't really care what others think of me for trying to get some clarification and most of you on here are pretty civilised, so were kind enough to answer me. Problem solved. :p
I wouldn’t focus too heavily on AoO’s either. Because you don’t have reach you won’t be getting many AoO’s.
Except for the 2 AoOs with every succesful Trip, you mean?
Except for the 2 AoOs with every succesful Trip, you mean?
:D
I've finalised my build anyway. Take a look below if you'd like. :)
Name: Kaze "Muscle Rider" Daizaemon
Race: Human
Eyes: Brown
Hair: Short, spiked and Black
Height: 6'3
Weight: 200 lb's
Age: 26
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Level: 1
HP: 10
AC: 13
Touch: 13
Flat Footed: 11
Initiative: 5
Str: 17
Dex: 13
Con: 14
Wis: 14
Int: 13
Cha: 7
Fort: 4
Ref: 3
Will: 4
CMB: 3
CMD: 16
Traits:
Reactionary - You gain a +2 trait bonus on Initiative checks.
Adopted - Warrior of Old (Elf) - You gain a +2 trait bonus on Initiative checks.
Waterskin - 1gp, 4lb's
Bedroll - 1sp, 5lb's
Canvas - 1sp, 1lb
6 rations - 3gp, 6lb's
Backpack - 2gp, 2lb's
Carrying: 38lb's
Heal 3
Acrobatics 5
Climb 7
Escape Artist 5
Perception 6
Hates Cold and has penalties in the cold due to his light clothing:
Sense Motive 6
Ride 5
Survival 3
Swim 7
Level 2: Evasion, Improved Grapple
Level 3: Power Attack, Pain Points, Manoeuvre Training, Fast Movement +10ft
Level 4: Exploit Weakness, AC +1
Level 5: Combat Expertise, Immunity to Fatigue, High Jump
Level 6: *Improved Trip, Fast Movement +20ft
Level 7: Greater Trip, Physical Resistance
Level 8: AC +2
Level 9: Greater Grapple, Improved Evasion, Fast Movement +30ft
Level 10: *Dodge, Immunity to Exhaustion
Level 11: Pinning Rend
Level 12: Fast Movement +40ft, AC +3
Level 13: Jawbreaker, Defensive Roll
Level 14: *Mobility
Level 15: Bone Breaker, Immunity to Stunning, Quivering Palm, Fast Movement +50ft
Level 16: AC +4
Level 17: Neckbreaker
Level 18: *Spring Attack, Fast Movement +60ft
Level 19: Dragon Style, Greater Defensive Roll
Level 20: Immunity to Death effects and Energy drain, AC +5
Alignment: A martial artist may be of any alignment.
Pain Points (Ex): At 3rd level, a martial artist's advanced knowledge of humanoid anatomy grants a +1 bonus on critical hit confirmation rolls and increases the DC of his stunning fist and quivering palm by 1. This ability replaces still mind.
Martial Arts Master (Ex): At 4th level, a martial artist may use his monk level to qualify for feats with a fighter level prerequisite when those feats are applied to unarmed strikes or weapons with the monk special quality. This ability replaces slow fall.
Exploit Weakness (Ex): At 4th level, as a swift action, a martial artist can observe a creature or object to find its weak point by making a Wisdom check and adding his monk level against a DC of 10 + the object's hardness or the target's CR. If the check succeeds, the martial artist gains a +2 bonus on attack rolls until the end of his turn, and any attacks he makes until the end of his turn ignore the creature or object's DR or hardness.
A martial artist may instead use this ability as a swift action to analyze the movements and expressions of one creature within 30 feet, granting a bonus on Sense Motive checks and Reflex saves and a dodge bonus to AC against that opponent equal to 1/2 his monk level until the start of his next turn.
This ability replaces ki pool.
Extreme Endurance (Ex): At 5th level, a martial artist gains immunity to fatigue. At 10th level, he also gains immunity to exhaustion. At 15th level, he gains immunity to stunning. At 20th level, he gains immunity to death effects and energy drain. This ability replaces purity of body, diamond body, and perfect self.
Physical Resistance (Ex): At 7th level, if a martial artist suffers any effect that causes ability damage, ability drain, or temporary ability score penalties, the effect is reduced by 1 point. This reduction increases by 1 for every three levels beyond 7th (to a maximum reduction of 5 at 19th level). This ability replaces wholeness of body, timeless body, and tongue of sun and moon.
Defensive Roll (Ex): At 13th level, a martial artist may use the defensive roll advanced rogue talent once per day, plus once per three levels beyond 13th (to a maximum of 3 times a day at 19th level). This ability replaces diamond soul.
Quivering Palm: A martial artist may use this ability one additional time per day per level above 15th, but may not have more than one in effect at a time.
Greater Defensive Roll (Ex): At 19th level, a martial artist suffers no damage on a successful defensive roll, and only half damage if the Reflex saving throw fails. This ability replaces empty body.
He likes to stop evil beings in their track and is always looking to fight someone more powerful than himself.
In his not so distant past, Kaze cared for a child who was kicked out onto the streets by his own parents, due to their own selfish addiction to pesh. The reason for this was that they couldn't afford to pay for both, drugs and their kid. One had to go, but unfortunately for the kid, it wasn't the right decision that they made that day.
Despite his cold outlook, Kaze does have a softer side. In fact, he wept when he thought of how Takeshi was thrown out at such a young age. He felt sorry for the boy, realising the kid had never felt or experienced the love someone needs through their childhood. As such, he took the child in, seeing him as his own adoptive brother. This boy was called Takeshi.
Takeshi admired Kaze for what he had done, seeing him for the decent, nice and honourable person he was. The boysaw him as a beacon of hope and began to call him "Muscle Rider" (this is the name of a character in an old pre-catastrophy comic he was given to as a gift from Kaze's adoptive parents).
Kaze decided to leave Takeshi with his own adoptive parents, who promised him they would take the child in as their own, teaching him how to become a warrior as strong as him. Being both Elf and Half-elf, they have the youth and energy see it through, too.
One might think that leaving the boy once again was a harsh thing to do, but knowing that Takeshi looked to Kaze for help at any sign of trouble, he figured in order for the boy to grow as strong as he is, he needed to be out of the picture, so Takeshi could grow into an independent young man one day.
When he said his goodbyes, he told Takeshi that one day he would be back, telling him that he'd always be around, watching him grow into the powerful and honourable man he was meant to be. This comforted Takeshi, to know that his idol, Muscle Rider, would always be watching over him, no matter where in the world he was.
To this day, Kaze continues testing his strength and fighting abilities, constantly searching out new opponents to learn things from them, broadening his fighting capabilities and proving to the world how strong he is.
Although good, Kaze takes some sport from laying out opponents that cross his path. This is usually because he only fights those with bad intentions. He's one of the only people he knows to prefer fighting with his own bare hands, using his own incredible strength to every battle. Though this is highly dangerous, his strength, combined with his incredible will power is strong enough to go face to face with any the most powerful opponents around.
He sees weapons as cheap, unskilled ways to deal with things and feels that real strength comes from the power of ones own body. He believes that by becoming the strongest hand to hand fighter in existence, he can prove this theory to everyone. Using a weapon would be to contradict himself and his own beliefs.
Kaze has always been a quiet individual and is always the first to enter a fight where the strongest opponents are present. His own strength is one to be feared, but his compassion for others is one to be admired.
He's a nice guy, but has little personality.
For example, he's good looking, but he doesn't talk much. He has his own goals in mind and although he would help others, he has no intention of leading the group or throwing out his own ideas or opinions. He just likes to get in and beat on things in the most efficient way possible (more than likely to be seen as brutal by the other party members), then out of battle, he just prefers to tag along at the back, observing and saying very little. He's more of a thinker than a socialiser.
Adopted and reactionary both have trait bonuses which don't stack.
I should have put this in the other post
Many traits grant a new type of bonus: a “trait” bonus. Trait bonuses do not stack..
I should have put his in the other post
Many traits grant a new type of bonus: a “trait” bonus. Trait bonuses do not stack.
Aww, well everything else is good to go. Shame because I was told they only don't stack if they're from the same trait area.
For example: Two traits from Combat or two from Magic.
Big shame about not being able to have that high of an Initiative, but I'll just grab the +1 Reflex Save trait then.
While a monk of any intelligence can get Improved Trip... Greater Trip still requires it. Basically, a monk's training lets them bypass the requirements for the less powerful feat in the chain, but it doesn't let them bypass the requirements of the more powerful version.
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I should have put his in the other post
Many traits grant a new type of bonus: a “trait” bonus. Trait bonuses do not stack.Aww, well everything else is good to go. Shame because I was told they only don't stack if they're from the same trait area.
For example: Two traits from Combat or two from Magic.
Big shame about not being able to have that high of an Initiative, but I'll just grab the +1 Reflex Save trait then.
There are two different restriction on traits:
1 - You can only select one from each category - so you can't pick two traits that are both magic ones, even if they affect wildly different things
2 - Many traits grant a trait bonus. This is just another type of bonus, like luck or competence. These do not stack with each other.
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Note that if James comes to answer, he isn't a rules guy and has stated before that this answers are as a GM, hes a 'rule of cool' guy. His input is definitely helpful, but doesn't trump the text. The only two devs that trump the rule are Jason and Sean I think.
And I believe Jason über alles when it comes to official rulings.
While a monk of any intelligence can get Improved Trip... Greater Trip still requires it. Basically, a monk's training lets them bypass the requirements for the less powerful feat in the chain, but it doesn't let them bypass the requirements of the more powerful version.
The irony is that when Paizo first came out with PFRPG stats for their iconic monk, they also forgot about the Combat Expertise requirement and gave him Greater Disarm. So even the developers weren't sure how it works!
Maybe it works without that and there is just a lot of rules lawyering going on. Most of those feat chains are too long anyway and too crowded.
If Combat expertise would at least give synergies with dodge and acrobatits and fighting defensively or the total defense action it would be worth something.
Anyway a maneuver master can get the feat for sure.
Maybe it works without that and there is just a lot of rules lawyering going on.
You know it's going to be a strange day when James Jacobs gets called a rules lawyer.
If Combat expertise would at least give synergies with dodge and acrobatits and fighting defensively or the total defense action it would be worth something.
Combat Expertise grants a dodge bonus, so it stacks with the Dodge feat and with Fighting Defensively as a Full-Round or as a Standard Action. Only Total Defense doesn't stack, because it's a special exception. Acrobatic doesn't have anything to do with AC. If you mean using the acrobatics skill to tumble, C.Exp, Dodge, and fighting defensively all still count to AC if you fail and provoke.
Ok maybe it stacks and i was just ranting, also i didn´t call out specific persons.
And:
Special: If you have 3 or more ranks in Acrobatics, you gain a +3 dodge bonus to AC when fighting defensively instead of the usual +2, and a +6 dodge bonus to AC when taking the total defense action instead of the usual +4.
I still think some feat chains are too long or too difficult to pull off.
Special: If you have 3 or more ranks in Acrobatics, you gain a +3 dodge bonus to AC when fighting defensively instead of the usual +2, and a +6 dodge bonus to AC when taking the total defense action instead of the usual +4.
I totally forgot about that! I need to edit some of my character sheets...
Special: If you have 3 or more ranks in Acrobatics, you gain a +3 dodge bonus to AC when fighting defensively instead of the usual +2, and a +6 dodge bonus to AC when taking the total defense action instead of the usual +4.
I didn't even know about that! Thanks for the heads up!
That's how monks end up with ACs of 50 at high levels.
Just add Crane Style.
The bonus gets included in posts but no one ever explains it.
Combat Expertise is a solid choice for monks. The INT req. Is kinda harsh.
I kinda agree that G. Trip would be nice as a vanilla bonus feat.
That's how monks end up with ACs of 50 at high levels.
Just add Crane Style.
The bonus gets included in posts but no one ever explains it.Combat Expertise is a solid choice for monks. The INT req. Is kinda harsh.
I kinda agree that G. Trip would be nice as a vanilla bonus feat.
Wow, with my stats above all I can see by end game is a max AC of 27.
AC: 13 (Dex +1, Wis +2)
AC: 27 (Dex +1, Wis +2, Combat Expertise +12 at level 20, Fighting Defensively +2) = 27
It could go up more if I found a headband, but otherwise it won't. :(