Weapon special abilities on non-magical weapons

[Salabrian]

Howdy Everyone,

We all know that to put a magical ability (e.g. flaming or ghost touch) on a weapon, that weapon must already be a magical weapon (e.g. longsword +1 or higher). Question is: Could you put a NON-magical special ability (e.g. throwing or agile) on a non-magical weapon?
The relevant rule quote here is "A weapon with a special ability must also have at least a +1 enhancement bonus"
Now, I argue that a masterwork weapon does indeed have a +1 enhancement bonus (to hit), and while I wouldn't necessarily say this lets it receive magical special abilities (masterwork does not equal magical weapon), I see no reason, either in the rules or in game/story world logic, why non-magical abilities couldn't be included in the making of a masterwork weapon.

Take "Agile" for instance. "Agile weapons are unusually well balanced and responsive." No mention of anything magical here, just that it is a very well-made weapon. Sounds sort of like a masterwork weapon, wouldn't you say? So how about you pay the extra 300 for masterwork (+1 enhancement) and then an extra 2000 for it to be made extra balanced (agile), and there you a have a (non-magical) agile masterwork blade?

[Cheapy]

They are all magical. None of them are non-magical. The fluff doesn't matter, as there are no non-magical magic weapon enhancements.

This is a rules question and the answer is a resounding no.

[Salabrian]

Cheapy wrote:

They are all magical. None of them are non-magical. The fluff doesn't matter, as there are no non-magical magic weapon enhancements.

This is a rules question and the answer is a resounding no.

Well, damn. How 'bout you tell me how you *really* feel?

just kidding

[Salabrian]

Cheapy wrote:

They are all magical. None of them are non-magical. The fluff doesn't matter, as there are no non-magical magic weapon enhancements.

This is a rules question and the answer is a resounding no.

Aside from that, how about the fact that "A weapon with a special ability must also have at least a +1 enhancement bonus" and a masterwork weapon "provides a +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls"?

[Archaeik]

Considering that rule is specifically under "magic weapons", you can be confident they intended it to be a magical bonus.

[Herald of the Vile]

Strickly speaking, Salabrian, you are looking for an exotic weapon that has t
he agile quality; I suggest you ask your gm about adding your example to the game, most gms won't argue with the expenditure of a feat for a nifty trick. But by the letter of the rules as they exist currently, all such effects detailed as magic items are magic items and will always be magic items, otherwise they would cost less and professions would matter in every game.
-Herald of the Vile

[Weables]

yea. unfortunately, you can use the same argument as much as you want, but the answer is still no, by the rules.

You CAN do this with an amulet of mighty fists, but only because it says so. Hope that helps

[Salabrian]

Thanks everyone-- looks like that's a wrap! Now I just have to figure out what to do with all these "agile masterwork rapiers" I bought in bulk from that guy on the corner. With prices so low, shoulda known it was a scam...

[Double-orc]

New player...first time post >.<

I am playing in a campaign (where we are all fairly inexperienced (including the GM)) and we killed a guy that we weren't really supposed to be able to kill and I got a +3 adamantine butterfly knife from him. What exactly does that mean? +3 to hit? +1 with other qualities?

Also, I had the main cleric in town put ghost touch on it (actually she did it for free since they were sending us to go fight incorporeals), and I was wondering if that was even possible? After reading this, I'm not sure that it was.

Thanks!

[Jiggy]

Double-orc wrote:

New player...first time post >.<

I am playing in a campaign (where we are all fairly inexperienced (including the GM)) and we killed a guy that we weren't really supposed to be able to kill and I got a +3 adamantine butterfly knife from him. What exactly does that mean? +3 to hit? +1 with other qualities?

Also, I had the main cleric in town put ghost touch on it (actually she did it for free since they were sending us to go fight incorporeals), and I was wondering if that was even possible? After reading this, I'm not sure that it was.

Thanks!

Okay:

The "butterfly knife" is the kind of weapon it is (as opposed to longsword, crossbow, etc).

"Adamantine" is the material it's made of (instead of just regular steel). It's super-hard and therefore bypasses DR/adamantine and also hardness of 20 or less (good for destroying objects, particularly animated ones).

The "+3" means it's been magically enchanted to have a +3 enhancement bonus to attack rolls (to hit) and damage rolls. It also means that it's magical, and therefore it will bypass the damage reduction of creatures with DR/magic.

It also means it's eligible for other magical upgrades, such as Ghost Touch. You have one pimpin' knife.

[Double-orc]

Awesome! So the +3 is to hit and damage? That's sick. Thanks for the quick reply!