In the upcoming game I'm planning to run I've spoken with the players to get a sense of what they were thinking of playing, and so far here's what I was told: Four players seem pretty set in what they're playing; a bard, inquisitor, ranger, and magus. The other two (I have six players) are undecided but one is leaning toward an arcane caster (probably a wizard) and the other a martial class, maybe a rogue.
This will be the first Pathfinder game I've run as a GM, so what should I keep in mind for creating challenging but fair encounters with this group? I was planning on restricting the easy availablity of magic items but if all I need do is make sure they can get their hands on wand of CLW I don't think that will be a problem.
Anything else to keep in mind?
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It really depends on what flavor of the class each player is planning on running. Not every ranger has to be an archer, and not every bard stands around singing the party into awesomeness and socializing with NPCs. The bard can heal [not optimal, but he can do it], the magus can load up with defensive magic and front-line, and the ranger can go up front and brutal paired with his animal companion. Heck, if he and the magus can coordinate with some teamwork feats [and maybe the rogue, too for great flanking], you can put together a pretty effective party designed to eradicate enemies as quickly as possible. Remember; every point of damage that is prevented [by killing the enemy] is a point that doesn't need to be healed. I played a paladin once that was the party "healer" based solely on that basis. Nobody died over the seven levels that we played.
Basically, if your players are teamwork-oriented and play things tactically, they should be okay. Wizards can control the battlefield to prevent enemies from closing, summon up allies to handle healing, or even control some of the enemies and turn them to the party's cause. Not too familiar with the inquisitor, but I'm sure there's a smart way to play one in a party with no dedicated healbot.
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It may be a little more challenging for them in the very lower levels with the low ACs. All four of those listed have the ability to be decent at fighting, as well as provide other utilities. I think they shouldn't have too much trouble. If you are running a Paizo published module or adventure path, then they will definitely be fine. Those are designed around 4 players and average point buy
There is no reason why a party of a bard, inquisitor, magus, ranger, wizard and rogue, cant overcome whatever reasonable challenges you can come up with. It ofcourse depends on how they put together their characters.
For instance, the bard could be an arcane duelist, the ranger a two weapon fighter, with support from the inquisitor and rogue, there isnt a reason why they cant provide plenty of front line duty. And between the magus, inquisitor, bard, wizard and ranger, they should have access to all the magic they need.
Thanks for the responses. It's a homebrew campaign and gameworld and the PCs are using a modified 25 point buy and everything gets max HP per hit die.
The players are an experienced group and usually try to make sure all bases are covered, but I'm not familiar with the inquisitor, magus, and Pathfinder bard so I'm not completely knowledgable about their strengths and weaknesses.
You've got a large party with a generous point buy that is well rounded. It's actually quite a powerful group. You may have a few glass cannons, but I imagine any melee characters you have who are not damage sinks will have good Dex and good AC and thus be hard to hit. You've got the potential for tons of combat buffs in that group, which will also make up for certain things. And sometimes 2 moderately good melee guys (say, the ranger and the magus in your case) working tactically can be way more effective than 1 tank.
And there may be no dedicated healer, but between an inquisitor, a bard, and a ranger, they really are quite set. Worse comes to worse Rogue can UMD some cure wands. The 3 cure casting casters can also hopefully find some time to brew some potions when they attain the appropriate level and spells.
No focused healer is actually fairly common. It is usually not a problem if there is access to (or someone learns to craft) potions and/or wands. Group just has to be slightly more careful since there isn't as great a possibility of emergency heals during combat.
No tank is even more common in my experience. Most people are more likely to want to go for high DPS rather than just absorbing damage. My current group's strategy (or lack thereof) makes a tank almost a liability anyway.
It,s not so bad and it creates an extra level of challenge. In the game I play, the only healing we have is from my Alchemist spending half of his spells per day in healing extracts to distribute to the other 3 party members, and one rogue who took a dip in paladin levels. However all 4 of us rolled so high on the dices for character creation that the DM sends us CR+3 or CR+4 challenges as equal lvl challenges since we end up being so ungodly strong.
With a small level of coordination of skills and spells, that group should melt your enemies faster then you can spawn them.
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With a 25 pointbuy, you should be fine. Remember the Bard and the Ranger both can handle some healing.
Do try to talk to the Bard and make sure that he is mindful that he is the only viable in-combat healer in the party. Picking up 1 or 2 strong Cure spells in advisable, but not a must.
This party of your will most likely out kill anything that comes its way. (Faster then they need healing.)
The lack of HP healing is not that big of an issue. The removal of negative status affects might be an issue though.
Well, my players' classes are pretty much settled, and it looks like I don't have to worry about healing or tanking. This is what my group is going to consist of:
Human Invulnerable Rager Barbarian
Half-Elf Hexcrafter Magus
Human Spellbreaker Inquisitor, archery focus
Human Ranger, archer or switch-hitter (player hasn't decided yet)
Dwarven Cleric
Human or Half-elf Witch (player hasn't decided yet)
Looks like a pretty powerful and nicely-rounded group to me, so I'm thinking I'll pretty much be able to throw any kind of encounters their way and not worry that they're going to have some critical deficiency in some area.
One more thing, how many goblins is an appropriate number for this group of characters (all level 1)? My first encounter is going to be a raid by goblins on the village they're in, and I want it to be a challenging encounter.
Looks like a great party.
A 6 person, level 1 party is Average Party Level 2. That means most of your encounters should be around CR 1, 2, and 3.
For the standard goblin warrior, that's 3-9 goblins.
Variations would include stuff like
3 goblin warriors, 1 of which is mounted on a goblin dog
3-6 goblin warriors led by 1 goblin with 1-2 PC class levels.
2-6 goblins with 1-2 PC class levels (like 4 goblin rogues would be a CR 2 encounter, if I'm doing the math right).
You were using a pretty generous point buy so I would probably err on the side of the higher CR stuff.
wizard needs to control like a king to make this group work.
Looks like a great party.
A 6 person, level 1 party is Average Party Level 2. That means most of your encounters should be around CR 1, 2, and 3.
For the standard goblin warrior, that's 3-9 goblins.
Variations would include stuff like
3 goblin warriors, 1 of which is mounted on a goblin dog3-6 goblin warriors led by 1 goblin with 1-2 PC class levels.
2-6 goblins with 1-2 PC class levels (like 4 goblin rogues would be a CR 2 encounter, if I'm doing the math right).
You were using a pretty generous point buy so I would probably err on the side of the higher CR stuff.
This is good info, thanks. There are going to be more goblins than this in total since it's a pretty big raid, but this gives me a good idea for how many goblins to send at the PCs at a time. How many rounds of downtime should the PCs need between waves? 2-3 sufficient?
In the upcoming game I'm planning to run I've spoken with the players to get a sense of what they were thinking of playing, and so far here's what I was told: Four players seem pretty set in what they're playing; a bard, inquisitor, ranger, and magus. The other two (I have six players) are undecided but one is leaning toward an arcane caster (probably a wizard) and the other a martial class, maybe a rogue.
This will be the first Pathfinder game I've run as a GM, so what should I keep in mind for creating challenging but fair encounters with this group? I was planning on restricting the easy availablity of magic items but if all I need do is make sure they can get their hands on wand of CLW I don't think that will be a problem.
Anything else to keep in mind?
Here's an idea since you're homebrewing it - try the alternative hit point option:.
Critical hits, Sneak-Attack damage, Bleed damage as well as damage from failed saving throws are considered lethal damage, all else is considered non-lethal.Non-lethal damage heals 50% after a short rest, 100% after an extended rest. Lethal damage heals at a rate of 1+Con bonus/extended rest (minimum 1). Healing magic always heals lethal damage first.
I find that approach greatly reduces the need for a dedicated healer and still keeps the drama in the game. My group also added these rules to round out the option:
More than 50% of total hit points taken as damage, character becomes Fatigued. More than 50% of total hit points taken as lethal damage, character becomes Exhausted. These conditions lift when hit points return above those levels.
If lethal damage brings a character to 0 hit points or less, they are dieing. If non-lethal damage brings a character to 0 hit points or less, they are unconscious.
Just a thought.
In the upcoming game I'm planning to run I've spoken with the players to get a sense of what they were thinking of playing, and so far here's what I was told: Four players seem pretty set in what they're playing; a bard, inquisitor, ranger, and magus. The other two (I have six players) are undecided but one is leaning toward an arcane caster (probably a wizard) and the other a martial class, maybe a rogue.
Our last 5-man group was a Human Paladin (Oath of Vengeance), a Human Barbarian (Invulnerable Rager), a Halfling Summoner (Master Summoner with an eidolon tricked out to be the party's rogue/scout), an Elven Wizard (admixture Evocationist) and a Half-Elven Bard.
We never once missed a focused healer and our Pally only ever rarely tanked - though I suppose you could consider those Summoned Monsters often taking our alpha strikes as Tanks... usually it was more a matter of combat being over in three rounds.
This is good info, thanks. There are going to be more goblins than this in total since it's a pretty big raid, but this gives me a good idea for how many goblins to send at the PCs at a time. How many rounds of downtime should the PCs need between waves? 2-3 sufficient?Looks like a great party.
A 6 person, level 1 party is Average Party Level 2. That means most of your encounters should be around CR 1, 2, and 3.
For the standard goblin warrior, that's 3-9 goblins.
Variations would include stuff like
3 goblin warriors, 1 of which is mounted on a goblin dog3-6 goblin warriors led by 1 goblin with 1-2 PC class levels.
2-6 goblins with 1-2 PC class levels (like 4 goblin rogues would be a CR 2 encounter, if I'm doing the math right).
You were using a pretty generous point buy so I would probably err on the side of the higher CR stuff.
Sorry for the delayed reply.
I haven't run a lot of waves-based encounters myself, but I'd say yeah, about 2 rounds sounds right. Give them a chance to heal and rebuff but not too much.
This is also something you may have to be prepared to wing depending on how well the party handles the situation.
In the upcoming game I'm planning to run I've spoken with the players to get a sense of what they were thinking of playing, and so far here's what I was told: Four players seem pretty set in what they're playing; a bard, inquisitor, ranger, and magus. The other two (I have six players) are undecided but one is leaning toward an arcane caster (probably a wizard) and the other a martial class, maybe a rogue.
With 5* characters, they should be fine. If you were going with a classic 4-man party then you would definitely want someone to Tank or Heal, if you couldn't get both.
/ *Bards so don't count! LOL
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They are going to kick ass. 6 players + 25 point buy. Unless you are really good or harsh, they will dominate. The only real issue they have is a wizard for the uber spells at 7, 8, and 9.
Even their first setup would kick ass. The thing that might slow them down on that is 1 super duper powerful melee boss or some sort. The type that can own a full BAB class in melee with 1 full attack.
I expect in 2 months you'll be asking for advise on how to challenge them.
Well, I also suggest the following: make sure the witch takes the Healing HEX, and that the Inquisitor take CLW. I find a reach weapon Inquisitor with combat reflexes & bodyguard (and later those free teamwork feats)
to be very nice to pack up any “light tanks” . The BBN is a tank of sorts (one BIG weapon or sword & board?). The ranger should not be a archer if the inquisitor is going to be one, they should discuss this. I say the ranger and not the inquisitor for archer in this case.
Held the first session with this group and it was a success! Here's what the party end up consisting of:
Human Barbarian (Invulnerable Rager)
Human Inquistor (Spellbreaker)
Human Witch
Human Ranger
Dwarf Cleric
Elf Magus (Hexcrafter)
The barbarian is a standard greatsword wielding barb, the inqusitor and ranger are archers, the cleric uses S&S and has the healing & fire domains, the witch has the elemental patron and the magus is making a dervish build.
The first session went very well. I had a challenging first encounter prepared for them consisting of 30 goblins and 4 goblin dogs raiding a village. Although there were a few close calls none of the PCs died and they even completed 2 of the 3 bonus objectives and got some extra XP for it. The scariest encounter for the session was a random encounter consisting of six orcs; the barb got knocked down to negative HP twice and probably would have died had it not been for a bad dice roll by one of the orcs at a critical moment. All in all it was a great session and everyone had fun.
You'd better be able to back up that statement, otherwise this bard's gonna have to lay down some pain.
/ *Bards so don't count! LOL
How many character sheets do you have? When you're taking cover behind a stack of dead Bards, I guess I might get a little annoyed. :)