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I'm new to pathfinder and I'm trying to feel my way around the system. I have plenty of years of experience playing 1st and 2nd ed AD&D.
I decided to play a fighter to get to know the system and become familiar with the feats.
The party is going through the Jade Regent adventure path. Concept wise I wanted to play a soldier who over time becomes proficient at all aspects of warfare. Lurking on the boards for close to 6 months to a year now I repeatedly see that fighters are not overly effective or that you need to be a one or two trick pony. I don't want to start a pissing match but can a fighter be effective at mid to higher levels without dumping everything into damage output or specializing?
So far I've taken feats in:
Improved Initiative
Combat Reflexes
Endurance
Power Attack
Dodge
I'm considering
Unarmed Combat
Running
Lunge
the Whirlwind Attack chain (mobility)
Combat Patrol
and tripping feats
My thought is to be effective whether armed or not. With whatever weapon or armor is at hand or best available as time unfolds. Using skill points in areas of survival, knowledge engineering, knowledge history, linguistics and intimidate (think of the drill sgt in full metal jacket) to give the character the military flavor.
Has anyone played a generalist fighter that can play the reach and control the combat game or will I end up being disappointed later on?
Any insight would be helpful. I realize that this may just be a min/max vs role-play debate as well.
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Dipping into Monk for a single level is a better way to pickup unarmed combat abilities (Imp Umarned Strike, Stunning Fist and Flurry all for one level dip) and some saving throw bonuses. Greater Weapon Focus and the Weapon Specialization feats, along with Weapon Training are a big part of what makes fighter tick. I'd pick a weapon that you've found (magic) and enjoy and start focusing in on using that weapon more. You'll still be very solid at picking up any old weapon in a pinch, but you'll have better skills with your favorite weapon.
Running, Whirlwind and Combat patrol are all sub par feats in my opinion. I'd stay away from those. If you are going to go for trip, focus on getting to Greater Trip quickly: that's where it gets really fun for you and your allies.
Most fighters aren't that effective at higher levels regardless.
Honestly as much as I love it Whirlwind Attack always felt like a trap. There was somewhere I saw where a developer mentioned something about being able to use it with Spring Attack, but that got shot down fast. I know at my table I let that fly because otherwise wtf is the point of having Spring Attack be a pre req (personal opinion only). Being mobile is fine but I would stop at spring attack and not go for Whirlwind Attack.
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As far as whirlwind attack goes, once you get to level 11, you only really come out ahead if there's more than three enemies, otherwise you could get the same benefit out of your iterative attacks (albeit at a -5 and -10 penalty for the attacks). It just seems like a waste of several feats to be able to sometimes attack many enemies once, especially in a game where focus fire is nearly always the superior strategy.
Combat Patrol is pretty cool, but I would avoid the Run feat. I would also avoid the tripping feats, and instead just use a reach weapon. You can trip with any reach weapon, and as a fighter your strength and BAB will give you a pretty good success rate against many foes. The reach weapon will mean there's no attack of opportunity for attempting, and you'll have saved yourself needing a 13 intellect and three feats.
As a fighter, you do need to specialize, but you don't need to hyper-specialize. Spending one feat on improved unarmed strike or catch off-guard is something you can afford, and putting your second weapon training into a ranged weapon is a safe bet.
Actually, since you've taken the endurance feat anyway, you could always look into the horizon walker prestige class for a lot of cool and generally useful abilities that will continue with your full BAB.
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The party is going through the Jade Regent adventure path. Concept wise I wanted to play a soldier who over time becomes proficient at all aspects of warfare. I repeatedly see that fighters are not overly effective, or that you need to be a one or two trick pony. Can a fighter be effective at mid to higher levels without dumping everything into damage output or specializing?
Yes they can be very effective. They are the best damage dealers in the game. Out side of that they are very limited. Using combat maneuvers is one way to make your fighter stand out. Over all they are limited because of the class special ability's are geared for doing one thing fig thing.
So far I've taken feats in:
Improved Initiative
Combat Reflexes
Endurance
Power Attack
DodgeI'm considering
Unarmed Combat
Running
Lunge
the Whirlwind Attack chain (mobility)
Combat Patrol
and tripping feats
Improved Initiative, Combat Reflexes, Power Attack. Are all good standard feet's.
Endurance, and Dodge well there are better choices. Dodge is the first one I wold change out given a choice.Unarmed Combat, & Whirwind Attack and all of the feet's for it are a wast for the most part. There are exceptions to this but not many.
Lunge: Can be useful just need to remember you only lunge on your turn and can not use it for AoO.
Combat Patrol: if your in the right place it's good but how many times will it really get used?
Tripping Feet's: This has more to do with what you expect from the fighter your building. There are a few builds that live on trip but for the most part how much will it get used?
My thought is to be effective whether armed or not. With whatever weapon or armor is at hand or best available as time unfolds. Using skill points in areas of survival, knowledge engineering, knowledge history, linguistics and intimidate (think of the drill Sgt in full metal jacket) to give the character the military flavor.
Has anyone played a generalist fighter that can play the reach and control the combat game or will I end up being disappointed later on?
This is probably where I can help the most. You are wanting to make a R. Lee Ermey USMC retired type of character.
Couple of rules for USMC or US Army.1: There is no room for honer on the field of battle. There is living and the dead. If there is a way to cheat or just kill the other guy with little chance of getting hurt. Thats what the military people are going to do.
2: Military people only care if you can do the job. The field is not where you learn it's where you do.
Skill's: Diplomacy, Intimidate, Other skill's Knowledge History, Survival, (Few points in Linguistics to get the languages you will need.)
You are proficient in most of the weapons you will see. Remember for the most part the first half of the AP is just getting there. Taking Weapon Focus and Spoliation is something you should think about. It helps the fighter do the one thing they are really good at.
Edit:
Or play a Bard Arcane Duelist Archetype. And use Perform Oratary as your Inspire Courage. So you can yell at the other players to do better and help them do better. Thats what Drill Sgt do best.
I would say that yes, the Generalist Fighter is viable, but it does depend on the game you're playing.
If you're doing a game filled with predictable combats in a team that's focused on their small-group tactics, than you have to be a specialist. Why? You'll only be doing one thing and all other aspects will be covered by someone else. Here one-trick fighters rule, and if you're dealing with the builds on these boards, that's what you'll mostly find.
If, however, you're playing a game where the DM changes up combats, (He sends a disarming and sundering expert against you, he starts fights in towns where weapons are illegal, he puts you into situations where you have to think fast, etc.) then the Generalist Fighter is absolutely the way to go. He may not do as much damage as a specialist, but no matter what, whether he's got a bow, a sword or his fists, he's ready for anything.
The top description is what you normally get when fights are always in open fields, dark dungeon halls, and are build with your group tactics in mind with little imagination.
The bottom description is for games where the story is more important, and you have to be ready for barfights, broken swords, combats in active volcanoes, etc. This is the kind of game where you have to take points in swim, climb and survival because you never know when you might suddenly be trekking through a blizzard with limited visibility towards a migrating forest or living trees.
I love the second type of game, and therefore I love the generalist fighter. He may not be doing 150 damage a round, but does he have to in order to be effective? Why not someone who can do 100 damage a round no matter what situation, weapon or enemy he's fighting?
Yeah that means you probably won't be getting both weapon focus and specialization feats, but that's not the end of the world. Take power attack, take rapid shot, and after that take feats that apply to multiple situations and you'll be doing great. I'd recommend the vital strike chain, one level of monk for lots of free unarmed feats, and then either take utility feats (running, combat patrol, lunge, etc.) or spend your feats focusing in both ranged and melee (point blank shot, precise shot, greater trip and disarm, maybe some focus feats in composite longbow and your favorite melee weapon) and between all those feats, your level of monk and your multiple weapon training groups you'll find yourself ready for whatever happens. And since you're a fighter, you'll still have some feats left over to fill in whatever gaps come up in your game.
A lot of the builds people post on these boards are theoretical: how to get the most damage per round in an isolated situation. That may work for some builds, but in the game it can be way too easy to find yourself useless when your speciality is not available due to the enemy, terrain or an enemy trick. For those situations and those kinds of in-game realities, being a generalist fighter is definitely an asset.
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As a general rule APs use many different type of encounters. There are 6 different writers and tones of other people involved in making them. So you will get a variety of encounters.
That dose not change the fact specialized fighters do there job better then general fighters. Because they all do the same thing. even if there specialized there is nothing keeping them from using other weapons. Most players that run fighters have 4 or more weapons on them. Mainly because they do one thing fight. And they need the tools for the job.
Fighters
Whether hired as caravan guards or mercenaries ordered to protect traveling diplomats, fighters are constantly traveling in and out of Varisia through its various trade routes. Self-motivated warriors may simply seek their fortune in the distant and magical lands beyond, where
countless treasures and riches wait to be found in the untamed depths of the wilds. Fighters from all regions, including deserters of frost-ridden Irrisen as well as roving mercenaries of the Lands of the Linnorm Kings or Varisia, can find reason to leave the comforts of home
behind and pursue the life of a vagabond.Recommendations: Any breed of fighter will have his hands full, but should fare well in this Adventure Path. Strong choices for archetypes include Free Hand Fighter and Savage Warrior, and suggested skills include Handle
Animal, Intimidate, and Survival.Bards
Bards seeking to regale audiences and capture their hearts (or purses) with tales of epic journeys need look no further than a caravan voyage throughout and beyond the lands of Varisia. While Varisian culture is rich, its familiarity often gives rise to wanderlust in bards, who are welcome among caravan parties for their ability to boost morale and inspire courage during difficult times. Cunning Varisian bards who have overstayed their welcome in cities such as Riddleport and Magnimar may seek refuge in the distant lands to the north or even farther, and tribal bards hailing from hillier regions such as the Kodar Mountains
and Storval Plateau are often privy to tales of the lands to the north, stoking their curiosity. Many other bards are motivated to take on long journeys by their desire to enlarge their repertoires and win renown.Recommendations: Bards’ skill sets will prove useful in much of this Adventure Path, but certain abilities may aid bards during their journey more than others. While part of this Adventure Path involves a long overland journey, bards will still have numerous opportunities to
interact with various and diverse elements of societies and cultures. Suggested skills include Acrobatics, Bluff, Linguistics, Stealth, and Use Magic Device.
That is the most important thing to look at. The player's guide will help you make a character that will fit the them of the AP. Along with a better understand of what your geting in to. From the over view of the AP. This player's guild allows has most of the special rules you will need for the AP. It is important to note. That your starting Cha plays a part in the rules for Building Relationships.
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The answer is "no, but if the rest of the party is low-level, you'll be fine".
For what you are looking for (threat armed or unarmed with tricks), I recommend the Sohei Monk. Lots of options on how to build, and almost as many feats as fighters (more if you cOunt the "virtual feats". Also heavier threats when unarmed.
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I'm new to pathfinder and I'm trying to feel my way around the system. I have plenty of years of experience playing 1st and 2nd ed AD&D.
I decided to play a fighter to get to know the system and become familiar with the feats.
The party is going through the Jade Regent adventure path. Concept wise I wanted to play a soldier who over time becomes proficient at all aspects of warfare. Lurking on the boards for close to 6 months to a year now I repeatedly see that fighters are not overly effective or that you need to be a one or two trick pony. I don't want to start a pissing match but can a fighter be effective at mid to higher levels without dumping everything into damage output or specializing?
So far I've taken feats in:
Improved Initiative
Combat Reflexes
Endurance
Power Attack
DodgeI'm considering
Unarmed Combat
Running
Lunge
the Whirlwind Attack chain (mobility)
Combat Patrol
and tripping featsMy thought is to be effective whether armed or not. With whatever weapon or armor is at hand or best available as time unfolds. Using skill points in areas of survival, knowledge engineering, knowledge history, linguistics and intimidate (think of the drill sgt in full metal jacket) to give the character the military flavor.
Has anyone played a generalist fighter that can play the reach and control the combat game or will I end up being disappointed later on?
Any insight would be helpful. I realize that this may just be a min/max vs role-play debate as well.
Fighters in Pathfinder get a metric ton of feats - there is plenty of room for you to be good at a lot of things and still be effective.
As was mentioned above, pick one weapon to focus/specialize/train in. From the looks of things a reach tripping weapon is what you are interested in? EWP into Fauchard (Reach, Trip, 1d10 and 18-20/x2) or use a Guisarm. Then start working your way up the combat patrol and improved trip feat lines and have fun. When you get higher level if you are using a fauchard then the improved critical feats are great as well. This gives you a strong base - with your chosen weapon in hand you are frightening. With a back up weapon you can still power attack etc...
Picking up iron will is a good idea too.
Some other interesting feats:
spear dancer
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/fury-s-fall-combat
Whirlwind Attack is a trap feat, but I would focus on the concept and build around that. A fighter is mostly made to do damage. It can do other things, but you have to build it to do so. The question is how many other things do you want it do to, and what do you want those things to be, that will determine if it is the right class for you or not.
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I wish people would stop recommending Combat Patrol. It is a 3-feat chain that you will almost never use because it is a full round action to setup. That means no attacks for you, unless they are generated by provoking AoOs -- and many of those AoOs would have ALREADY provoked without you spending a full round action to setup Combat Patrol.
Thalin points out the only really useful niche for Whirlwind Attack: using a reach weapon with extra reach (generally from Lunge or enlarging), you can create a large area that you attack -- and if you have Greater Trip you can trip the whole bunch and get AoOs as your enemies hit the ground. That allows you to control the whole area and keep your enemies form getting past you to the squishy back line. Your talking a total of at least 7 feats to make that happen (Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Improved Trip and Greater Trip - possibly Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Fauchard and/or other "trip" feats), but the end result is very powerful.
Whirlwind means you are surrounded. It has never been a good idea to be surrounded in any game I have been in as a player or ran as a GM.
Combat Patrol increase your AoO range so it is useful in situations where the enemy could otherwise just walk around you.
Of course this could boil down to the GM, and the types of encounters he like to use.
As was mentioned above, pick one weapon to focus/specialize/train in. From the looks of things a reach tripping weapon is what you are interested in? EWP into Fauchard (Reach, Trip, 1d10 and 18-20/x2) or use a Guisarm. Then start working your way up the combat patrol and improved trip feat lines and have fun. When you get higher level if you are using a fauchard then the improved critical feats are great as well. This gives you a strong base - with your chosen weapon in hand you are frightening. With a back up weapon you can still power attack etc....Two notes.
1. The trip property has been errattaed out of the Fauchard.
2. You can trip with anything. The only thing the trip property gives you is the optional immunity to counter trip by dropping the weapon.
3. Weapon enhancement bonuses apply for the trip cmb, otherwise they don't :-) this really is huge later when you have +x weapons.
3. Weapon enhancement bonuses apply for the trip cmb, otherwise they don't :-) this really is huge later when you have +x weapons.As was mentioned above, pick one weapon to focus/specialize/train in. From the looks of things a reach tripping weapon is what you are interested in? EWP into Fauchard (Reach, Trip, 1d10 and 18-20/x2) or use a Guisarm. Then start working your way up the combat patrol and improved trip feat lines and have fun. When you get higher level if you are using a fauchard then the improved critical feats are great as well. This gives you a strong base - with your chosen weapon in hand you are frightening. With a back up weapon you can still power attack etc....Two notes.
1. The trip property has been errattaed out of the Fauchard.
2. You can trip with anything. The only thing the trip property gives you is the optional immunity to counter trip by dropping the weapon.
Number 3 is no longer true. They changed that.
Note: This is a revision of this FAQ entry based on a Paizo blog about combat maneuvers with weapons. The previous version of this FAQ stated that using a trip weapon was the only way you could apply weapon enhancement bonuses, Weapon Focus bonuses, and other such bonuses to the trip combat maneuver roll. The clarification in that blog means any weapon used to trip applies these bonuses when making a trip combat maneuver, so this FAQ was updated to omit the "only trip weapons let you apply these bonuses" limitation.
Most fighters aren't that effective at higher levels regardless.I don't think you and I are playing the same game.
;)
I'm playing pathfinder with full casters and classes that can do stuff out of combat. How about yourself?
I would take Improved Unarmed Strike and start using a Reach weapon.
Then you threaten adjacent squares, and at reach.
Then, for extra fun, work up the Whirlwind Attack chain, and keep a bandoleer of Enlarge Person potions. Congrats - you can Whirlwind attack in a 20' radius.
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I'm new to pathfinder and I'm trying to feel my way around the system. I have plenty of years of experience playing 1st and 2nd ed AD&D.
I decided to play a fighter to get to know the system and become familiar with the feats.
I have played six iterations of this game. I have DM/GMed for 30 years. I say this to you now. You sound like a smart player. There is no such thing as a character that cannot succeed in the hands of a smart player.
People here tend to think there is a hard and fast solution out there that will never fail, no matter what situation it is thrust into. Hogwash. Total crap. They seek such in futility, and they run their opinions roughshod over everybody else's fun as if handed a mandate from the Prince of Darkness to do so.
But hear this.
There is no build so good that a bad player cannot get it killed. There is no build so bad that a good player cannot make it succeed.
I promise you. Do what sounds fun to you, and play it smart. Nothing else matters.
People here tend to think there is a hard and fast solution out there that will never fail, no matter what situation it is thrust into. Hogwash. Total crap. They seek such in futility, and they run their opinions roughshod over everybody else's fun as if handed a mandate from the Prince of Darkness to do so.
Whoever favorited that post should take it back because that is not what is being said. The common point is that certain builds are more likely to fail. That is not the same as definitely will or will not fail since a lot of things depend on the player, the GM, and the dice.
Now the disclaimer is not always put out there, but it should have to be. When someone says _______ is/is not a good idea it is always to be assumed under neutral conditions where the GM will not go out of his way to help/harm the PC since that would involve bias.
A generalist fighter can do absolutely fine. I would suggest grabbing ranged combat feats before unarmed strike and the lot, but a fighter that doesn't specialize can still do fine, and be a fully contributing member to his party.
How about yourself?I enjoy making interesting characters that are fun and effective both in and out of combat.
I also try to avoid making broad, sweeping (and especially inaccurate) generalizations while I am trying to prove a point.
I didn't say all of them aren't effective I said most of them aren't effective. I like to make characters that are fun in at out of combat as well. That's why I don't like the class fighter because they don't have much going for them out of combat. You say that My generalization is inaccurate and I wonder why you think that. Fighters have 2 skill points per level, they have bad saves, and have bad touch ac. I'm just not impressed with the class is all.
TO THE OP:
A generalist fighter who does not specialize in at least one primary weapon is going to have some problems pulling his weight.
Remember that you are in a party, and you don't have to do everything. If you are going to take a Knowledge skill, do it in an area someone else in the party does not have. Your primary focus is going to be on combat...you are the fighter. While your theme is nice, in a party scenario, as opposed to solo play, what you are doing is intentionally making yourself worse at your own job.
If you take unarmed strike, you are going to find it inferior and regret the decision. The damage on it is much lower then all sorts of weapons you can wield, and you aren't taking the feats that make it viable. Your base dmg is d4...which you could do with a dagger, or spiked gauntlet. You need 4.5 points of damage JUST to equal a normal Greatsword. you are not a monk who gets scaling damage and free TWF with unarmed strikes.
So, you need to pick a weapon to love. The best one for a fighter is likely the bow. However, you are playing Jade Regent, so be aware that Heavy Sword could come in REALLY nice, as well as Light Blades.
For skills, you'll need Perception, likely Intimidate, and Survival won't hurt if there's no Ranger. There's tremendous amounts of outdoor fighting, so Ride and lancework will also be quite useful, and Handle Animal is a potentially useful thing.
There is TREMENDOUS downtime in this adventure (i.e 3-6 months of travel!). The best use of downtime is converting your gold directly into magic items via a Crafting feat. So, you should take Craft Armor ranks, Magical Artisan, and Create Arms and Armor. Start upgrading your armor as you go, and making armor for the rest of the team. At a later level, you can take Create Wondrous item, create helms (headbands), gorgets (necklaces), bracers, gauntlets, girdles, and armored boots...but really, you might just want to stick to armor and just swap with someone else.
To be a good generalist, you'll want to multiclass. A level in both Barbarian and Ranger will do you well...since you aren't specializing in a weapon, there's no delays based on fighter levels.
A level in Barbarian will grant you increased movement, and rage rounds. Both are EXTREMELY useful in outdoor encounters, which are often 1/day. If you don't have to save rage, it's a great buff to have.
A Ranger level lets you pick a favored enemy. Outsiders (evil) and Goblins are probably the best for the AP, although Undead won't hurt. It also gives you a bonus feat, and you can use Cure Light Wounds wands on yourself with no UMD ranks.
Use your Class Special for an extra skill point, or get a 4k Int booster item for your Craft: Armor ranks.
In reality, I'd personally make a Ranger/Fighter combo as a generalist, combining 2 FE's with some weapon training and weapon spec at later levels. Any skill points lost by multi-classing I instantly would get back by taking Ranger levels. Armor training isn't going to be a problem because your Dex will likely never be higher then you can max.
==Aelryinth
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As was mentioned above, pick one weapon to focus/specialize/train in. From the looks of things a reach tripping weapon is what you are interested in? EWP into Fauchard (Reach, Trip, 1d10 and 18-20/x2) or use a Guisarm. Then start working your way up the combat patrol and improved trip feat lines and have fun. When you get higher level if you are using a fauchard then the improved critical feats are great as well. This gives you a strong base - with your chosen weapon in hand you are frightening. With a back up weapon you can still power attack etc....Two notes.
1. The trip property has been errattaed out of the Fauchard.
2. You can trip with anything. The only thing the trip property gives you is the optional immunity to counter trip by dropping the weapon.
1. You sure about that? The Trip property has been changed, but, according to the copy I just re-downloaded of Classic Horrors Revisited, the Fauchard still has the Trip keyword...
I've been playing a polearm master with the combat patrol feat for seven levels now. I have had a lot of fun threatening all squares out to 15 ft. with combat patrol in combination with polearm fighting. That is a lot of squares. I'm a 35 ft. diameter minefield just waiting to explode. Why just last night I killed two clerics with attacks of opportunity before I realized they were my friends. Oh well, it was dark and scary, what did they expect?
Plus, with combat patrol comes mobility, so I go where I want, when I want and nobody can touch me. Sounds like the OP has a great fighter going here.
Sounds like you need some feats here for ranged attacks though.
As for whirlwind and spring attack combinations, the description for whirlwind says you are making "one melee attack" and spring attack allows you to make a "single melee attack", so it is clear to me that this works fine. Whirlwind attack is a little quirky in that you make several attack rolls for one melee attack but then it is a whirlwind attack.
Kudos to the OP. Fighters deserve more love and affection.
XOXOXO!
I don't think a generalist is going to do well. I think a fighter built with a concept will do well. I have built many fighters that don't specialize in any particular weapon. They do tend to specialize in various combat maneuvers though. Even a fighter can't specialize in all of them. He's going to have to make some choices.
One thing that will help you is to make sure that your feats are more than just stepping stones to the feats you really want. If you never plan to use Mobility and Spring Attack, then going for Whirlwind Attack may be costing you more than you want.
Dodge is a prerequisite for 27 feats.
Mobility is a prerequisite for 17 feats.
Spring Attack is a prerequisite for 2 feats.
Other feat chains work the same way. So keep that in mind. Too general and you will find yourself wasting feats.
This is what you need to keep in mind when building a generalist fighter. Your feats need to be able to open more options for you, not close them. In addition, you need to make sure that your feats will work with each other rather than hinder.
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Has anyone played a generalist fighter that can play the reach and control the combat game or will I end up being disappointed later on?
Generalist fighters are in fact the best kinds of fighters because they can never be "shut off" by weird mechanics of an encounter.
Note that by "fighter" I do not necessarily mean "straight class Fighter"; I melee "melee guy with a mix of fighter levels and other stuff".
I.e.,
Traits: Threatening Defender, Defender of the Society
01 fight1 [no archetype], Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise
02 monk1 [maneuver master][Improved(your favorite maneuver)]
03 fight2+ or [other melee class], Power Attack
==//==
07ish fight5 [weapon training+1] (buy Gloves of Dueling)
Get a free maneuver in every full attack, +3/+3 in your chosen weapon group. Wear armor heavy as you like, and either turtle up or go berserk as your hitpoints and opponent condition dictate. Eventually you're running around at normal speed in full plate and inching up your DEX bonus to armor without having to buy mithral.
Take a weapon group like Flails, and you're good to go with everything from morningstars to whips.
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Two notes.
1. The trip property has been errattaed out of the Fauchard.
2. You can trip with anything. The only thing the trip property gives you is the optional immunity to counter trip by dropping the weapon.
Do you have a link to Paizo errata for "Classic Horrors Revisited" (AFAIK the only book listing the fauchard)?
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I always thought it pure comedy that people were specializing in a derro weapon. That's going to be some interesting background to justify the choice.
Naturally one can just reskin the damn thing though.
I think it's more that it is a weapon that derro like, not one they invented - an injection spear would be weird, but one of the gazillion european polearms, not so much.
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There are a lot of ways to make fighters useful outside of combat. Pathfinder Traits help out a lot here! Are they ever going to be as well-rounded as a Wizard with a 20 INT (and all those extra skills), or a rogue or bard? Probably not, but that doesn't mean they can't find a niche.
Fighters also get more feats than any other class, leaving them the ability to use their normal leveling feats to pick things that either help them specialize or make them versatile.
Combat Maneuver fighters are also likely to have a 13 or 14 INT, giving them additional skill points to work with.
Lore Wardens may be the best fighter archetype for a well-rounded warrior, with their extra skill points and the fact that INT-based skills are class skills for them. The Achilles Heel of the Lore Warden is his AC, since he doesn't have medium or heavy armor proficiency -- but he does get all those bonus Fighter feats, which means he can always pickup those lost "bonus" armor proficiencies.
There are a lot of ways to make fighters useful outside of combat. Pathfinder Traits help out a lot here! Are they ever going to be as well-rounded as a Wizard with a 20 INT (and all those extra skills), or a rogue or bard? Probably not, but that doesn't mean they can't find a niche.
Fighters also get more feats than any other class, leaving them the ability to use their normal leveling feats to pick things that either help them specialize or make them versatile.
Combat Maneuver fighters are also likely to have a 13 or 14 INT, giving them additional skill points to work with.
Lore Wardens may be the best fighter archetype for a well-rounded warrior, with their extra skill points and the fact that INT-based skills are class skills for them. The Achilles Heel of the Lore Warden is his AC, since he doesn't have medium or heavy armor proficiency -- but he does get all those bonus Fighter feats, which means he can always pickup those lost "bonus" armor proficiencies.
Don't forget about the tactician. He gets 4 skill points per level and 5 more class skills (3 are Int-based).
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I hadn't seen the Tactician archetype before, but I'd say it doesn't compare well to the Lore Warden.
Depending on what you want to do. They both have plenty of skill points and extra skills. The tactician is more like the 4E Warlord.
I've been playing a polearm master with the combat patrol feat for seven levels now. I have had a lot of fun threatening all squares out to 15 ft. with combat patrol in combination with polearm fighting. That is a lot of squares. I'm a 35 ft. diameter minefield just waiting to explode. Why just last night I killed two clerics with attacks of opportunity before I realized they were my friends. Oh well, it was dark and scary, what did they expect?
Dark and scary, eh? You DO know that concealment prevents you from making attacks of opportunity, don't you?
I've been playing a polearm master with the combat patrol feat for seven levels now. I have had a lot of fun threatening all squares out to 15 ft. with combat patrol in combination with polearm fighting. That is a lot of squares. I'm a 35 ft. diameter minefield just waiting to explode. Why just last night I killed two clerics with attacks of opportunity before I realized they were my friends. Oh well, it was dark and scary, what did they expect?Dark and scary, eh? You DO know that concealment prevents you from making attacks of opportunity, don't you?
I guess I'll have to keep that in mind next time I play with a DM who pays heed to those kinds of details.
However, if your opponents are making attacks of opportunity in the dark it's only proper to return the favor.
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If everyone's playing by the same rules and is having fun, than I guess that's all that matters.
I've been playing a polearm master with the combat patrol feat for seven levels now. I have had a lot of fun threatening all squares out to 15 ft. with combat patrol in combination with polearm fighting. That is a lot of squares. I'm a 35 ft. diameter minefield just waiting to explode. Why just last night I killed two clerics with attacks of opportunity before I realized they were my friends. Oh well, it was dark and scary, what did they expect?Dark and scary, eh? You DO know that concealment prevents you from making attacks of opportunity, don't you?
Where does it state you can't do that? Do you mean Total Concealment? Which is what I think we both agree this would have been. You can make attacks of opportunity against concealed opponents as long as it isn't Total, as far as I can tell.
I could have said dim and scary, but I felt it wouldn't have the same pizzazz.
Only full concealment, really?
If that's the case I need to brush up on my rules knowledge. I thought any form of cover or concealment negated the chance for attacks of opportunity.
Maybe I just got it mixed up with sneak attack?