Combat Manuever questions

[Xavram5]

I am frequently mocked by my fellow players as being only capable of building fighters, so I thought I'd try my hand at something besides a straight up melee damage mauler. I'm trying to put together a Monk, with an emphasis on Combat Manuevers but I needed clarifications on some rules.

1. Flurry of Blows : It says you can substitute any of the attacks for certain Combat manuevers but do you use the bonus from FoB or do you use your CMB for these? If its your FoB bonus, do you still get bonuses from things like Improved Trip? What about Agile Manuevers? Can you attempt MULTIPLE Combat Manuevers during Flurry?

2. Speaking of Agile Manuevers, I see that this replaces your Str bonus with your your Dex bonus...what if you've also taken something like Fury's Fall ("When making a trip attack, add your Dexterity bonus to your CMB"), that adds your Dex bonus to your CMB? Would that get you, effectively, x2 your Dex on a Trip manuever?

Thanks!

[The Elusive Jackalope]

A CMB check is an attack roll against CMD as opposed to AC. It is calculated using your BAB. If you substitute a combat maneuver in place of an attack on a flurry of blows you use your CMB calculated using you new BAB from flurry and any other attack roll modifiers from feats, abilities and positioning. And yes, you can attempt multiple combat maneuvers as long as they are the ones listed in the flurry of blows ability.

I'm not familiar enough with Fury's Fall to answer the second question.

[Grick]

Xavram5 wrote:

1. Flurry of Blows : It says you can substitute any of the attacks for certain Combat manuevers but do you use the bonus from FoB or do you use your CMB for these? If its your FoB bonus, do you still get bonuses from things like Improved Trip? What about Agile Manuevers?

Replace the "BAB" in your CMD with the value on the monk table under "Flurry of Blows Attack Bonus." That value is what your BAB should be, modified by the Two-Weapon fighting feat/penalties that flurry uses.

Your normal attack roll is BAB +Str +Misc.
Your normal CMB is BAB +Str +Misc.

In both cases you replace BAB with the Flurry BAB, and add your Strength and whatever other bonuses you have to attack rolls. (Bless, flanking, masterwork weapon, higher ground, etc.)

If you have Weapon Finesse/Agile Maneuvers, you use Dex instead of Str for that.

Xavram5 wrote:

Can you attempt MULTIPLE Combat Manuevers during Flurry?

Yes, you may substitute a combat maneuver for each unarmed strike you would get during a flurry. You can do multiple Sunders this way, which is nice.

Xavram5 wrote:

2. Speaking of Agile Manuevers, I see that this replaces your Str bonus with your your Dex bonus...what if you've also taken something like Fury's Fall ("When making a trip attack, add your Dexterity bonus to your CMB"), that adds your Dex bonus to your CMB? Would that get you, effectively, x2 your Dex on a Trip manuever?

I think they will not stack, since they're both dexterity bonus.

[master arminas]

Grick said wrote:

You can do multiple Sunders this way, which is nice.

Especially after you get adamatine ki strike, allowing you to ignore harndess of less than 20 with your unarmed strikes.

MA

[Xavram5]

So, in regards to Fury's Fall, if you were trying to max out your Trip attempt, you'd be better off NOT taking Agile manuevers in combination with Fury's Fall because...

AM + FF = Dex bonus only (since you can't add it twice)
Just FF = Dex bonus + Str you already get in CMB

This seems a little wonky but alrighty...

Grick, you also said that you replace the BAB in your CMD with the value from the Flurry of Blows bonus. But at 3rd level, Monks use thier level for BAB calc for CMB...does that factor in at all?

[Grick]

Xavram5 wrote:

Grick, you also said that you replace the BAB in your CMD with the value from the Flurry of Blows bonus. But at 3rd level, Monks use thier level for BAB calc for CMB...does that factor in at all?

Not if they're flurrying. They already get monk level as BAB during a flurry. Flurry is basically full BAB + TWF penalties, pre-calculated.

If they make a non-flurry combat maneuver, then they would use the higher BAB value.

[Terronus]

Although you might not add double Dex for fury's fall, you would get your str mod, if any, no?

[Archaeik]

Quote:

Agile Maneuvers (Combat)

You've learned to use your quickness in place of brute force when performing combat maneuvers.

Benefit: You add your Dexterity bonus to your base attack bonus and size bonus when determining your Combat Maneuver Bonus instead of your Strength bonus.

Normal: You add your Strength bonus to your base attack bonus and size bonus when determining your Combat Maneuver Bonus.

Quote:

Fury's Fall (Combat)

You can use Strength and agility to send foes crashing to the ground.

Prerequisites: Improved Trip.

Benefit: When making a trip attack, add your Dexterity bonus to your CMB.

Fury's Fall has neither the the line "instead of strength" nor a "normal" section

You add your agi score to the maneuver twice if you have both of these. (once to replace str, and once in addition)

edit:
If for some reason you couldn't add your dex twice with these, you would indeed get str+dex.