| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Forgive me if this question has been asked and answered, but I didn't find it on a quick search.
The Arcane Duelist archetype for Bards in the APG gain Penetrating Strike as a bonus feat at 14th level (and the Greater version at 18th). Normally this feat has a prerequistite of Weapon Focus, which I assume is waived as its granted as a bonus feat. However, the text of the feat specifies that its effects (ignoring some DR) only apply to the weapon that you have Weapon Focus in.
Does an Arcane Duelist need to take Weapon Focus to benefit from this feat? If not, how does it function for them?
Unless the bonus feat specifically says to ignore pre-reqs, he has to have them, and the feat drives home that you need it anyways.
==Aelryinth
Unless the bonus feat specifically says to ignore pre-reqs, he has to have them, and the feat drives home that you need it anyways.
If this was true, the ability could not work, as Penetrating Strike has a prerequisite of 12th-level fighter.
So the bonus feat does not need the prerequisites.
It does, however, only function for weapons in which you have Weapon Focus.
Unless the bonus feat specifically says to ignore pre-reqs, he has to have them, and the feat drives home that you need it anyways.If this was true, the ability could not work, as Penetrating Strike has a prerequisite of 12th-level fighter.
So the bonus feat does not need the prerequisites.
It does, however, only function for weapons in which you have Weapon Focus.
Technically, the fact he is granted it avoids the 12th level fighter shtick. But the 'no pre-reqs' language is always present if it is supposed to apply.
Here, the text of the feat reveals why. If you ignored pre-reqs, then the strike would apply to all weapons the magus would wield. Perhaps not overbalanced...perhaps it is.
==Aelryinth
There's two kinds of bonus feats. Generic bonus feats like the fighter gets, and specific bonus feats like this one.
When a character gains a "generic" bonus feat, that means the characters gets a "bonus" feat ... any feat that matches the selection criteria, which in every case I've seen also includes "meeting all prerequisites."
On the other hand, gaining a specific bonus feat doesn't have prerequisites any more than something like wild shape has prerequisites ... you gain that feat at that level. Such bonus feats often give characters feats they would not ordinarily be able to have.
Now, that's entirely different than the text of the feat, which requires Weapon Focus to use. It's kind of like taking Quicken Spell as a feat when you can't cast high enough level spells to actually use it. Sure, you've got the feat, but you have no way to actually use it.
Technically, the fact he is granted it avoids the 12th level fighter shtick. But the 'no pre-reqs' language is always present if it is supposed to apply.
"Prerequisites: Weapon Focus, base attack bonus +1, 12th-level fighter, proficiency with weapon."
If the bard can get the feat without having 12 levels of fighter, then he's ignoring the prerequisites.
Ignoring the 'shtick' (which is a prerequisite) is exactly what ignoring the prerequisites means.
Here, the text of the feat reveals why. If you ignored pre-reqs, then the strike would apply to all weapons the magus would wield.
No, ignoring the prerequisites just means the bard can actually get the feat. He still only gets the benefit.
"Benefit: Your attacks with weapons selected with Weapon Focus ignore up to 5 points of damage reduction. This feat does not apply to damage reduction without a type (such as DR 10/—)."
The Benefit is not a prerequisite. Any weapons with which the bard has Weapon Focus ignore up to 5 points of DR. That benefit applies to the bard regardless of the number of fighter levels he has, whether he has weapon focus at all, or what his BAB might be.
Eh for some classes the bonus feats are called out specifically as not needing to meet prerequisites (monk, ranger)
Some call out needing to meet the prereqs (cavalier, inquisitor, magus, wizard, sorcerer)
and then some don't say anything on the matter (fighter, rogue via combat trick, gunslinger)
So honestly I can certainly understand the confusion. Since we can assume that having fighter level 12 isn't really plausible for that deep in a bard archetype i think it's safe to assume the bonus feat ignores prereqs. Of course, not having weapon focus to a weapon also means that the feat would do nothing for you, at least as far as my interpretation would go.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
One other thing to note is that all of the bonus feats granted to an Arcane Duelist, with the exception of Combat Casting, have Fighter Level prerequisites. Where we see language that specifically says whether or not prerequistes have to be met is when a character has a choice of feats to make from a list of possibilities. Since these feats are simply assigned and the character is given no choice in the matter, I would assume that prerequisties are waived.
That still doesn't answer the original question though, since Penetrating Strike has a "backdoor" prerequisite listed in its benefit. I like Aeshuura's idea, since all Arcane Duelists will have one (and only one) bonded weapon.
The other solution is of course to just take Weapon Focus at some point before 14th level, but it seems a bit of a design flaw to force you to burn a feat slot in order to use a class feature.
A feat tax disguised as a class feature is a terrible design practice. I really hope they don't intend that.