I was reading the Dragon ferocity discussion and something hit me.... power attack is really limiting.
Let me explain. According to the feat, you can use it what a two handed weapon... ok, makes sense; a one-handed weapon in two hands, also good; and a natural attack that give 1.5 str, a wolf bite, sweet.
But that is it.
No sword and board fighter can power attack. My players large ape animal companion cannot power attack. This is a bummer...
Then I starting thinking more. If power attack gives a +2 to damage every 4 bab, and it is known that power attack only works while using a weapon two handed (when you get your 1.5 str), then power attack shouldn't increase to 3 points of damage because you are wielding a weapon two handed, since you MUST use a weapon two handed. If this was the case, they would say power attack grants -1/+3 per 4 BAB. - Maybe I've had this wrong all along, but even Hero Lab (yes, unofficial by rules, but they are pretty good) supports the +6 to damage for a 4th two-handed wielding power attacking fighter.
Now, I am really hoping I am wrong here (and that my above text makes sense) since this increases the damage gap two handers have over everyone else by an increasing margin. It also makes many of the entries in the bestiary wrong (like elephant) that technically have no natural attacks that qualify since a creature only gets the 1.5 str if they have one attack, yet they have power attack in their entry. Of course, unless the designers really only wanted them to have bull rush.
So, what do you guys think. Help me out because this is really blowing my mind.
I was reading the Dragon ferocity discussion and something hit me.... power attack is really limiting.
Let me explain. According to the feat, you can use it what a two handed weapon... ok, makes sense; a one-handed weapon in two hands, also good; and a natural attack that give 1.5 str, a wolf bite, sweet.
But that is it.
No sword and board fighter can power attack. My players large ape animal companion cannot power attack. This is a bummer...
Then I starting thinking more. If power attack gives a +2 to damage every 4 bab, and it is known that power attack only works while using a weapon two handed (when you get your 1.5 str), then power attack shouldn't increase to 3 points of damage because you are wielding a weapon two handed, since you MUST use a weapon two handed. If this was the case, they would say power attack grants -1/+3 per 4 BAB. - Maybe I've had this wrong all along, but even Hero Lab (yes, unofficial by rules, but they are pretty good) supports the +6 to damage for a 4th two-handed wielding power attacking fighter.
Now, I am really hoping I am wrong here (and that my above text makes sense) since this increases the damage gap two handers have over everyone else by an increasing margin. It also makes many of the entries in the bestiary wrong (like elephant) that technically have no natural attacks that qualify since a creature only gets the 1.5 str if they have one attack, yet they have power attack in their entry. Of course, unless the designers really only wanted them to have bull rush.
So, what do you guys think. Help me out because this is really blowing my mind.
What are you talking about? You can use Power Attack while wielding your weapon in a single hand. You can also use it while fighting with two weapons. Go re-read the feat.
Yar.
You are misreading the feat. Allow me to link, quote, and clarify:
You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls. This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an attack with a two-handed weapon, a one handed weapon using two hands, or a primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls. This bonus to damage is halved (–50%) if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon or secondary natural weapon. When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and every 4 points thereafter, the penalty increases by –1 and the bonus to damage increases by +2. You must choose to use this feat before making an attack roll, and its effects last until your next turn. The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage.
What you are saying it only applies to is what gives you an EXTRA 50% bonus. The scenarios you listed give you a +3 to damage for a -1 to hit. However, by default (for most everything else), you gain a +2 to damage for a -1 to hit. For off-hand and secondary natural weapons it's a +1 to damage for a -1 to hit.
~P
I may be misreading you post, but anyone can power attack if they have the feat. If you have a two handed weapon or only one natural attack it just does 3 points instead of 2 or 1 per 4 BAB, depending on the weapon.
The bestiary entries don't include the power attack math since it is something you can choose to use or not use.
A one handed weapon wielded in two hands counts as a two handed weapon for the purpose of power attack damage
This is the qualifying text from Power Attack:
This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an attack with a two-handed weapon, a one handed weapon using two hands, or a primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls.
Notice is says nothing about a one handed weapon or even a small weapon. Only these three points qualify...
Yar.
The qualifying text from the feat is ALL of the text from the feat, not just that one sentence. That one sentence is giving an exception to the normal quality of the feat.
Read the whole feat, not just that one sentence. I linked it and quoted it above.
~P
According to the feat, you can't use it what a light weapon...
This is kind of my point. I really want to be wrong here, so I am hoping you guys can point out how I am reading this wrong.
However, according to the feat, only three instances allow it. I will go and read it again though to just make sure. I hope you will all do the same and quote for me..
*facepalm*
God dang it.... now look all the problems I caused, lol
I got it now. Thanks for the patience :)
Anyone else wish to weigh in on this one?
Try five posts up, Globetrotter. and you are still reading it wrong. It works any with any weapon, but the damage bonus varies on whether not the weapon is a two-handed (or a one-handed wielded in two hands, or a primary natural), a one-handed (or a secondary natural), or a light weapon (or a weapon wielded in the off-hand).
Master Arminas
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"You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls."
"All melee attacks". But let's see the following.
"This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an attack with a two-handed weapon, a one handed weapon using two hands, or a primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls."
So, +50% damage on weapon handled in two hands. Awesome candy. But let's continue to read.
"This bonus to damage is halved (–50%) if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon or secondary natural weapon."
Damage halved on off-hand or secondary natural weapon. Well, shucks.
But there still is no mention of not being able to PA with a light weapon ; on the opposite of the "all melee attacks" mention : thus, you can.
Well then you will be glad to know that you are.
They already pointed it out.
Re read it again.
What it does is let you take a -1 to attack rolls in order to get +2 on damage rolls. Period. Any attacks.
There is an ADDITIONAL bonus ON TOP OF the normal effect of the feat, if you are using a 2H weapon, or wielding a 1H weapon in 2 hands, etc.
This is the qualifying text from Power Attack:
This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an attack with a two-handed weapon, a one handed weapon using two hands, or a primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls.
Notice is says nothing about a one handed weapon or even a small weapon. Only these three points qualify...
How does the bolded section not apply to one handed weapons?
As for the other stuff it is detailed in the rest of the paragraph.
I see you have it now. Ignore my last post.
yeah, I got it, lol.
Pirate was a big help. It's funny how you can get worked up after a long day of work and not reading properly.
Luckily, most people are polite, lol.