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GM and I having a bit of trouble calculating what exactly happens when I land a critical hit on a mounted charge...
*I have the Feat Spirited Charge, when mounted and using charge action double the damage, or triple with a lance. (Corebook p134)
*I am using a Hooked Lance for d8 dmg, crit on 20 x4 (Ultimate Combat p131)
*My lance has been recently imbued with the Thundering magical quality which adds an additional 3d8 sonic damage on a crit (Corebook p472)
*All that aside, the lance itself is a +1 magic weapon as well, and I have a +2 Str mod, so what happens when I crit?
Spirited Charge says that I triple damage...
The Hooked Lance critical dmg itself is quadruple...
I understand adding the 3d8 sonic dmg at the end of it all but how do I calculate this? Do I stick to the general concept in that anytime you hear "double, triple, etc" dmg that you really should just be factoring in additional dmg dice? I.E. a weapon that hits normally for d8 dmg would be rolled rolled 2d8 for double dmg, not d8x2 because when you multiply once, then have another factor multiplying again you get a ridiculously high number. (Imagine Spirited charge for d8x3 and I roll a 6... then you have 18dmg but wait, Hooked Lance crit dmg is x4, so 18dmg times 4 = 72... and I'll just stop there)
What I am thinking is this:
Lance is d8 dmg, when using Spirited Charge its 3d8 (basically just add +2d8)
Lance is d8 dmg, on a Crit its 4d8 (so your adding +3d8dmg)
That being said, when using Spirited Charge AND landing a Critical Hit you have...
1d8 (base dmg)
+2d8 from Spirited Charge
+3d8 from Critical Hit
for a total of 6d8 base dmg, right?
At this point we now all mods like +2 Str and +1 Magic Wpn. bonus
so....... (6d8+3 Physical dmg) + (3d8 Sonic dmg from Thunderous)...
9d8+3? that's a kick in the pants, assuming this is all done correctly.
Any input would be appreciated.
Spirited charge just triples the damage after all is said and done.
So...you crit. 1d8+3 x 4. Or 4d8+12.
Now you triple that. 12d8+36. This averages to 78 points of damage. Yes, a lance is going to hurt a lot. Yes, a critical hit lance strike will make the target paste. This is normal and expected.
Throw in Power Attack for more fun.
Actually you multiply all of your static bonuses as well. A lance on a charge with spirited charge for this character is 3d8 +9 (+12 if he's using the lance two handed since that would be a base strength addition of +3 instead of +2)
On a crit (x4) this would in essence add another 3 hits to the equation. Base lance damage is 1d8 + 3, so it would become 6d8 + 18. Then you add the weapon quality dice, giving you a grand total of 6d8 + 3d8 sonic + 18 (or +24 if you're using the lance two handed as the gods intended). Add in power attack at low levels for some truely impressive charges.
Edit: ninja'd. Also, appearently I'm doing damage multiples wrong here. Could you explain the rules I'm missing here?
I thought multiples were additive as well. It doesn't really address it in the rules, as far as I've seen.
But what comes closest is the rules for spirited charge. Normal mounted charges with a lance do x2, spirited charge does x2, but when you combine them it's only x3, not x4.
Crits don't multiply like that. You add 1 less than the total crit to it.
so x4 and x3 is x6. x2 and x2 is x3. That sort of thing.
So you'd do 6d8+18 (18 being 6x3) and 3d8 thundering
Crits don't multiply like that. You add 1 less than the total crit to it.
so x4 and x3 is x6. x2 and x2 is x3. That sort of thing.
So you'd do 6d8+18 (18 being 6x3) and 3d8 thundering
This was my thought, as in the CRB it says "Extra damage over and above a weapon’s normal damage is not multiplied when you score a critical hit."
Crits don't multiply like that. You add 1 less than the total crit to it.
so x4 and x3 is x6. x2 and x2 is x3. That sort of thing.
So you'd do 6d8+18 (18 being 6x3) and 3d8 thundering
Subtracting 1 from the total works with adding two multipliers, but not more.
The first multiplier is added full value, each other multiplier is added 1 less. That is; crit of x4 would add 4, the Spirited Charge at x3 would add 2 for a total of 6.
So crit(x4)+lance(x2)+Spirited Charge(x2)+Supreme Charge(x2) would be
4+1+1+1=x7
Another example, crit Alchemist bomb vs fire vulnerable swarm
crit(x2)+vulnerable(x1.5)+swarm(x1.5) would be
2+.5+.5=x3
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Spirited charge just triples the damage after all is said and done.
So...you crit. 1d8+3 x 4. Or 4d8+12.
Now you triple that. 12d8+36. This averages to 78 points of damage. Yes, a lance is going to hurt a lot. Yes, a critical hit lance strike will make the target paste. This is normal and expected.
Throw in Power Attack for more fun.
Not sure if you can Power Attack on a Charge, or can you?
Yes. It isn't action specific. It simply subtracts from melee attack rolls and adds to melee damage.
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Seriously guys?
Generic d20 multiplying rules.. this is basic stuff one needs to have down and not misunderstand.
Lance does d8+basic static bonus damage
Lance on a charge does 2d8+2x static bonus damage
Lance on a charge, critting does 3d8+3x static bonus damage
Lance on a charge, critting, with spirited charge does 4d8+4x static bonus damage
this is page one PRD stuff.
Common Terms:
Multiplying: When you are asked to apply more than one multiplier to a roll, the multipliers are not multiplied by one another. Instead, you combine them into a single multiplier, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its value to the first multiple. For example, if you are asked to apply a ×2 multiplier twice, the result would be ×3, not ×4.
Seriously guys?
Generic d20 multiplying rules.. this is basic stuff one needs to have down and not misunderstand.Lance does d8+basic static bonus damage
Lance on a charge does 2d8+2x static bonus damage
Lance on a charge, critting does 3d8+3x static bonus damage
Lance on a charge, critting, with spirited charge does 4d8+4x static bonus damagethis is page one PRD stuff.
Common Terms:
Multiplying: When you are asked to apply more than one multiplier to a roll, the multipliers are not multiplied by one another. Instead, you combine them into a single multiplier, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its value to the first multiple. For example, if you are asked to apply a ×2 multiplier twice, the result would be ×3, not ×4.
Ahem: Lance charge x2
Spirited charge becomes x3Hooked lance (UC, which has a x4 crit mod) becomes x6
Thundering adds 3d8 on a crit.
The base damage is 1d8+3
My original assesment was 6d8+3d8(sonic)+18. Nothing anyone else has said has changed this. You can do more damage by using a lance in two hands and using the power attack feat, and possibly using mounted skirmish or pounce (both have been debated), but that is how the OP's question works at the moment. Any other questions?
Seriously guys?
Generic d20 multiplying rules.. this is basic stuff one needs to have down and not misunderstand.Lance does d8+basic static bonus damage
Lance on a charge does 2d8+2x static bonus damage
Lance on a charge, critting does 3d8+3x static bonus damage
Lance on a charge, critting, with spirited charge does 4d8+4x static bonus damagethis is page one PRD stuff.
Common Terms:
Multiplying: When you are asked to apply more than one multiplier to a roll, the multipliers are not multiplied by one another. Instead, you combine them into a single multiplier, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its value to the first multiple. For example, if you are asked to apply a ×2 multiplier twice, the result would be ×3, not ×4.
Quantum Steve's rules are correct. Those are not. You don't simply get a +1 dice for every extra multiplier. You do if they are x2, but not in any other case. Read his rules again, they are the right ones.
Edit: now I see your problem. You understand the rules, you just think the Lance is a x2 crit weapon. Or you applied it as such anyways. The hooked lance we're discussing is a x4 crit weapon, and thus you did the math wrong. Not the rules wrong. My apologies. Even a regular lance is x3 and would be 5d8, not the 4d8 you quoted.
Though the irony of the condescension in your tone, implying it's basic and easy, then getting it wrong, is kinda funny.