| 3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
normally spells like chill touch and frostbite allow you to discharge your touches using the hold charge rules. my question is: how does this interact with the reach spell feat, which turns the touches into range touches?
if this has been asked before, please link me the thread. thanks in advance.
I always figured you would have the option of firing multiple rays, one at a time.
that's what i thought, but a bit of confirmation never hurt.
If the multiple touches of a spell like Chill Touch actually used the "hold the charge" rules, the extra touches would be lost upon converting it to a ray because HtC only works with touch spells. Thing is, Frostbite and Chill Touch don't actually reference that rule, it is simply a logical assumption those two spells work similar to the Holding the Charge rules.
I think upgrading chill touch to range would let you shoot one ray with the successful casting and then firing the remaining rays on following rounds as actions permit. But people have been asking about chill touch for over a decade.
I think holding the charge only works on touch spells, and so does the multiple touches. Once you change it to a ranged touch you give things up. Of course that is only speculation, and a general ruling would be nice. I suggest the FAQ button be hit.
i've looked in my book and haven't seen anything about the spell becoming a ray. was there an FAQ to that effect?
i've looked in my book and haven't seen anything about the spell becoming a ray. was there an FAQ to that effect?
That is correct. It would be a range of close. I don't think it should be allowed to affect all the creatures in that case. I will still hit the FAQ button.
| 13 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Question to be FAQ'd:
If a touch spell is altered by the reach spell metamagic feat, and made into a touch spell, and the spell allows multiple touches a round does the caster get to automatically affect the same number of targets as if the spell were still a touch spell.
FAQ me please.
i've looked in my book and haven't seen anything about the spell becoming a ray. was there an FAQ to that effect?
Do you think for just a single level upcharge, Paizo could turn Touch spells into ranged autohit? The Feat only changed the Range Entry, the victim still has to be touched by something because of the Target Entry.
And if that logic doesn't work for you, the feat does state "melee touch attacks instead require ranged touch attacks."
(Metamagic)
Your spells go farther than normal.
Benefit: You can alter a spell with a range of touch, close, or medium to increase its range to a higher range category, using the following order: touch, close, medium, and long. A reach spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level for each increase in range category. For example, a spell with a range of touch increased to long range uses up a spell slot three levels higher. Spells modified by this feat that require melee touch attacks instead require ranged touch attacks.
Spells that do not have a range of touch, close, or medium do not benefit from this feat.
i've looked in my book and haven't seen anything about the spell becoming a ray. was there an FAQ to that effect?Do you think for just a single level upcharge, Paizo could turn Touch spells into ranged autohit? The Feat only changed the Range Entry, the victim still has to be touched by something because of the Target Entry.
And if that logic doesn't work for you, the feat does state "melee touch attacks instead require ranged touch attacks."
** spoiler omitted **
(rules lawyer) a ranged touch does not make it a ray by default. ray is a specific term within the rules, such as for weapon focus.
eg: ray of frost is a ray, while acid splash is an orb of acid that's thrown at the target. both require a ranged touch attack to hit but not both are rays ( end rules lawyer).
(rules lawyer) a ranged touch does not make it a ray by default.
Doh! Sorry, I screw up that distinction all the time.
(rules lawyer) a ranged touch does not make it a ray by default.Doh! Sorry, I screw up that distinction all the time.
The distinction seems flimsy, maybe a ray is point and shoot where an orb requires some kind of hurling motion ? Not that anyone ever took the WF in rays in my games either way, just point blank shot in one case.
If a touch spell is altered by the reach spell metamagic feat, and made into a touch spell, and the spell allows multiple touches a round does the caster get to automatically affect the same number of targets as if the spell were still a touch spell.
Minor typo: It's made into a ranged touch spell, not a touch spell.
Chill Touch doesn't allow you multiple touches per round, it's multiple touches per casting, 1 per round (normally). The only way to deliver more than one touch from chill touch in a round is to use Spellstrike or deliver them with natural or iterative unarmed attacks, neither of which work with Close range.
Anyway, I don't see how it would change. You can make the same number of ranged touches as you could melee touches, right? Which is 1 per round, normally. (or maybe two if you cast it as a swift, then standard touch)
If it's a spell like Teleport, that would just make it work like Mass Bull's Strength, X targets within Y feet.