There are fighters of alignments other than neutral?
I've seen a few, they were multi-classed though.
|
Unarmed fighter then?Is it expected that an unarmed fighter's str bonus will be so high that he'll never have to worry about the difference in damage dice between what he can do and what a monk can do?By my reckoning...
A Brawler archetyped fighter can have +5 attack/+7 damage from close combatant and a further +4 damage from Weapon Spec/GWS, for a net +5 attack +11 damage over what a monk is capable of. As the monk caps at 2d10 unarmed damage, or average 11 damage vs. the fighters d3+11, or average 12.5 damage, the fighter is actually far better off than 2d10 with the accuracy figured in.
An Unarmed Fighter can't force up to ELEVEN fort-saves in a single full-attack.
An Unarmed Fighter can't force up to ELEVEN fort-saves in a single full-attack.
How is the monk doing that?
I wonder if anyone in the history of Pathfinder has ever used the healer monk "you cease to exist but rez a bunch of people" ability? I love how intense your ceasing to exist actually gets. Your name is removed from books!
If it removes your existence too thoroughly then it becomes a huge head-scratcher, a veritable Schrodinger's cat..... at least from a layman's perspective, non-laymen familiar with Schrodinger's cat realize just how dumb it is.
Quick question: What benefit is there to multiclassing into a spellcasting class for Mage Armor when a Monk can take Qinggong Monk from Ultimate Magic and just replace Slow Fall at fourth level, or High Jump at fifth, to pick up Barkskin?
Quick question: What benefit is there to multiclassing into a spellcasting class for Mage Armor when a Monk can take Qinggong Monk from Ultimate Magic and just replace Slow Fall at fourth level, or High Jump at fifth, to pick up Barkskin?
Because Barkskin and Mage Armor stack.
|
Quick question: What benefit is there to multiclassing into a spellcasting class for Mage Armor when a Monk can take Qinggong Monk from Ultimate Magic and just replace Slow Fall at fourth level, or High Jump at fifth, to pick up Barkskin?
The ability to activate any spell trigger item from the casting classes spell list.
I see, well that helps clear that right up. Now I guess it is a question of whether the level(s) of Sorcerer/Wizard/Whatever are going to make up for the lost levels of Monk. Anybody try bringing the old Pale Master over into Pathfinder and trying him out with the Monk? I remember that being a fun combo in Neverwinter Nights.
|
Martial Artist Monk 20
Dwarf 20 point buy....SNIP....
Nobody has argued that a level 20 monk isn't powerful: it's the intermediate levels where they are tough to build with a functional outcome. I think this thread has demonstrated that it is possible to build a functional monk, but unfortunately most of the Pathfinder monks that I have seen in play have been pretty weak.
The point that I take away form this thread is that effective monks are tougher to build than many other melee classes. It is easy to build an effective melee inquisitor, or a effective fighter/paladin/samurai. Rangers and cavaliers might be a little bit tougher to build, but they USUALLY turn out to be pretty effective in combat. Effective rogues are a little bit tougher to build, but if they focus on flanking they can certainly contribute to the party's success. Monk builds need to be both focused and well thought out in order to be effective.
|
|
An Unarmed Fighter can't force up to ELEVEN fort-saves in a single full-attack.How is the monk doing that?
Monk, 16th level: Medusa's Wrath, Ki, Haste ...eleven attacks in a Flurry.
Since he's 16th level, he can make at least that many Stunning Fist attempts. (If 16th seems too close to 20th, and therefore not in the "intermediate" level category, consider that Haste+Ki+Medusa at 10th yields eight attacks.)
...yeah: good ol' Stunning Fist, that thingy that most munchkin-trap archetypes trade away which enables a well-built, plain vanilla CRB monk to essentially end a fight with a single successful hit (because one of the easiest ways to become dead meat at high level is to be stunned first).
Most things have decent fort-saves, but that doesn't help when somebody has that many attacks: if the monk can only stun if you roll a 1 on your save, he has a 56% of doing so in one round. But if he has a 10% chance, then the odds you're stunned increase to 70%; and if he has a 15% chance, then the odds you're stunned are 85% (and about 50% after only four attacks). If you fail your fort-save on a roll of 5 or less, he has 60% odds of stunning you in only three hits, and over a 95% chance overall in one round.
Note also that more opponents can be stunned in Pathfinder than in 3rd-edition.
Stunning Fist (Combat)
You know just where to strike to temporarily stun a foe.Prerequisites: Dex 13, Wis 13, Improved Unarmed Strike, base attack bonus +8.
Benefit: You must declare that you are using this feat before you make your attack roll (thus, a failed attack roll ruins the attempt). Stunning Fist forces a foe damaged by your unarmed attack to make a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Wis modifier), in addition to dealing damage normally. A defender who fails this saving throw is stunned for 1 round (until just before your next turn). A stunned character drops everything held, can’t take actions, loses any Dexterity bonus to AC, and takes a –2 penalty to AC. You may attempt a stunning attack once per day for every four levels you have attained (but see Special), and no more than once per round. Constructs, oozes, plants, undead, incorporeal creatures, and creatures immune to critical hits cannot be stunned.
Special: A monk receives Stunning Fist as a bonus feat at 1st level, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. A monk may attempt a stunning attack a number of times per day equal to his monk level, plus one more time per day for every four levels he has in classes other than monk.
How is the monk getting around this again?
11 attacks yes, 11 stunning fists no. See Tarkxt post.
And people complain about casters novaing.
What's novaing?
Novaing is where you get into a fight and literally go supernova, you use everything you have without regards to what you might need later in the day.
It's basically a tactic that works really good for one fight and then leaves you with nothing left if something else comes up.
|
|
The fighter deals more damage than a Monk, and always will. He has higher To-Hit and higher damage. Heck, he can take that one feat and wear a monk's robe to use unarmed strike as a monk his Level/2+4 to get even -more- damage!
Heck, a monk can take three levels of Fighter[Weapon Master] and buy Gloves of Dueling.
Gasp! Nor is he just a fighter! What is this new hybrid with the evolutionary features of both parents?! Is it like that new shark?!
Gasp! Nor is he just a fighter! What is this new hybrid with the evolutionary features of both parents?! Is it like that new shark?!
It would be Australia, wouldn't it?
|
|
But then he's a Monk/Fighter, not just a Monk.The fighter deals more damage than a Monk, and always will. He has higher To-Hit and higher damage. Heck, he can take that one feat and wear a monk's robe to use unarmed strike as a monk his Level/2+4 to get even -more- damage!Heck, a monk can take three levels of Fighter[Weapon Master] and buy Gloves of Dueling.
Ahh....so?
I regard all arguments of class worthiness which premise themselves on high-level straight-class DPR comparisons to be intrinsically unrealistic.
(A sohei wouldn't need fighter levels to snarf those gloves, btw.)
Gasp! Nor is he just a fighter! What is this new hybrid with the evolutionary features of both parents?! Is it like that new shark?!It would be Australia, wouldn't it?
indeed! A land where mammals lay eggs...
indeed! A land where mammals lay eggs...Gasp! Nor is he just a fighter! What is this new hybrid with the evolutionary features of both parents?! Is it like that new shark?!It would be Australia, wouldn't it?
And everything is trying to kill you, including the mammals that lay eggs.
And everything is trying to kill you, including the mammals that lay eggs.indeed! A land where mammals lay eggs...Gasp! Nor is he just a fighter! What is this new hybrid with the evolutionary features of both parents?! Is it like that new shark?!It would be Australia, wouldn't it?
Dont go in the water.
...
At least, TVTropes makes it sound about as good an idea to go in the water there as to put your hand in a Statue-Mouth in a Gygaxian dungeon...
And everything is trying to kill you, including the mammals that lay eggs.indeed! A land where mammals lay eggs...Gasp! Nor is he just a fighter! What is this new hybrid with the evolutionary features of both parents?! Is it like that new shark?!It would be Australia, wouldn't it?Dont go in the water.
...
At least, TVTropes makes it sound about as good an idea to go in the water there as to put your hand in a Statue-Mouth in a Gygaxian dungeon...
Cracked.com said it was just as bad and they are somewhat reliable, so I'm just going to try avoiding Australia. Nothing against Australians, they have helped the US in basically every war we've ever had, but their wildlife scares the crap out of me.