/sniffle.
Here's hoping his son brings some sanity to the country.
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It's a cunning ruse whose purpose only the mind of Kim Jong-Il can comprehend.
Here's hoping his son brings some sanity to the country.I've heard from multiple sources that his son is even more bat-sh!t crazy than he is (or was).
Well, s~~@.
Yeah this'll be interesting.
Yeah this'll be interesting.Lot's of history is 'interesting' very often the batsh--- crazy people are interesting.
Sanity is overrated.
I'm for the reunification of Korea through military force with South Korea victorious.
I'm for the reunification of Korea through military force with South Korea victorious.I don't think China is. I don't think they want a US-friendly nuclear power* parked on their border.
Remember, North Korea has nukes. If South Korea absorbed North Korea (the most efficient means would probably be through economic conquest), South Korea would end up with the ability to create nukes (and may even end up with nukes).
I also doubt China will start shooting over it. They may not want it, but they are smart enough to know that the US and China are codependent enough that a shooting war will economically cripple both nations. I don't think they'll risk that, as much as they would loath a US friendly unified Korea with nukes.
I'm for the reunification of Korea through military force with South Korea victorious.I don't think China is. I don't think they want a US-friendly nuclear power* parked on their border.
Remember, North Korea has nukes. If South Korea absorbed North Korea (the most efficient means would probably be through economic conquest), South Korea would end up with the ability to create nukes (and may even end up with nukes).
China has security problems (mostly criminal) with North Korea and is too entrenched with United States as an economic partner to be concerned with what the United States. China's big move is to industrialize and modernize its infrastructure, not a prolonged war that would wreak them in the long run. U.S. only wants to unify Korea and let South Korea run the show from there. South Korea would definitely turn any nuclear technologies over the U.S. because South Korea lacks the expertise and scientific know-how to safely dismantle them.
P.S. I live in Nevada, Las Vegas, to be exact and five miles from Nellis Air Force Base. I hear much from the officers and enlisted men.
I also doubt China will start shooting over it. They may not want it, but they are smart enough to know that the US and China are codependent enough that a shooting war will economically cripple both nations. I don't think they'll risk that, as much as they would loath a US friendly unified Korea with nukes.In the 21st century, an overt shooting war is unlikely. However, covert support is likely. Such covert support could swing the war in the North's favor. The US is hurting economically and I don't think it could compete in this arena.
America doesn't need to get involved. North Korea's military is pretty far outclassed by South Korea's, and I don't think Chinese equipment will tip the balance in their favor. Plus, Japan is about as likely to get involved in a covert manner as China, which could tip the balance back towards South Korea if, for some inexplicable reason, the North got an edge. Japan does not want North Korea controlling the whole peninsula. They may not declare war over it, but they'll try to stop it.
The only thing that'll save North Korea if the shooting starts is a nuke, and if they tried it China would whup their asses before America even realized what was going on. They do not want North Korea flinging nukes around, "fellow commies" be damned. They may tolerate someone on their borders having them, but they sure as hell won't sit back and let them get used. Not in their backyard.
South Korea might outclass North Korea militarily, but they are completely outnumbered. North Korea has one of the world's largest militaries. Joining the army is pretty much the only 'upwardly mobile' career move for the North Korean masses. At least they don't have to worry about malnutrition or starving to death.
South Korea has twice the population of North Korea and semi-universal conscription. They can field a pretty big force if they have to. Plus, their equipment is state of the art, as is training. To top things off, their economy is leagues ahead of North Korea. North Korea can't compete with that, massive army or not. If it comes to a fight, South Korea can deliver. They've been preparing for this since the Korean War ended.
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It's also hard to maintain a fighting force when your number one export is 'famine'.
If you've seen "Team America" then you know he's not really dead.
It's also hard to maintain a fighting force when your number one export is 'famine'.
Precisely. Having a million soldiers isn't enough. You need to feed them, arm them, maintain and repair their equipment, train them, and so on.
So much for the real life Bond villan.
Yes, I know there's more serious issues at play here, but ever since Team America it's been a little hard for me to take him seriously.
EDIT: Dang, got beaten to the punch on that reference.
So much for the real life Bond villan.
Yes, I know there's more serious issues at play here, but ever since Team America it's been a little hard for me to take him seriously.
EDIT: Dang, got beaten to the punch on that reference.
Don't worry, it's a good reference :).
So, I was flipping around on the internet to idle away some time after I called out sick from work and saw that Kim had died. "How could I use this to troll my good friends in OTD?" I thought to myself. "Nah, I'll let it go," I thought, little realizing that OTD had already been going at it for 2 and a half hours. Where is the Cesaria Evora is dead thread, btw?
Anyway, since it's been brought up: I'm in favor of revolutionary unification of the Korean peninsula with socialist revolution overthrowing the chaebols and a political revolution to oust the Stalinist bureaucracy in Pyongyang.
Despite the western media's attempts to unremittingly depict North Korea as b@+@+&* crazy, a good portion of the South Korean working class is still affectionate towards NK and there are whole organizations of Korean-descended Japanese citizens who send them tons of money every year.
At the end of World War II, it was popularly perceived by Koreans that the true anti-colonial patriots were the leadership in Pyongyang, while the leaders of Seoul were traitors and collaborators. This probably wasn't helped by South Korea's charming tendency to massacre its own citizens every 15 to 20 years.
The Korean War was started by the north, true. But what most Americans fail to realize is that, like Vietnam, the division of Korea into a "communist" north and a "democratic" south (both words truly deserve mocking quotations here) was for the benefit of the USA, not the Korean populace. I'd have to go break out my Bruce Cumings books, but there was tons of support for the North in the South.
The USA, of course, drew up plans and were seriously considering turning North Korea into irradiated rubble, but finally decided against it. Thank god for the Rosenbergs!
And I don't think that the Chinese "communists" and the North Korean "communists" are that close at all. NK went with the Soviet Union during the Sino-Soviet split and then Mao went and started playing footsie with Nixon which has led to the current state of affairs between China and the US. Maybe there's been some kind of rapprochement since '91, but I thought NK's particulary paranoid brand of patriotism would prevent it from accepting second-rung status in some East Asian communist bloc.
I also doubt China will start shooting over it. They may not want it, but they are smart enough to know that the US and China are codependent enough that a shooting war will economically cripple both nations. I don't think they'll risk that, as much as they would loath a US friendly unified Korea with nukes.In the 21st century, an overt shooting war is unlikely. However, covert support is likely. Such covert support could swing the war in the North's favor. The US is hurting economically and I don't think it could compete in this arena.America doesn't need to get involved. North Korea's military is pretty far outclassed by South Korea's, and I don't think Chinese equipment will tip the balance in their favor. Plus, Japan is about as likely to get involved in a covert manner as China, which could tip the balance back towards South Korea if, for some inexplicable reason, the North got an edge. Japan does not want North Korea controlling the whole peninsula. They may not declare war over it, but they'll try to stop it.
The only thing that'll save North Korea if the shooting starts is a nuke, and if they tried it China would whup their asses before America even realized what was going on. They do not want North Korea flinging nukes around, "fellow commies" be damned. They may tolerate someone on their borders having them, but they sure as hell won't sit back and let them get used. Not in their backyard.
+1
The country's current leader actually died a good while ago. The place is a necrocracy, which is... Kind of special. However, a new "active leader" is going to make the country busy. The new guy needs to gather his supporters and take control, which will likely be a tough job - unless the south tries to attack. It is likely a very dangerous time to scuffle with them.
It's also hard to maintain a fighting force when your number one export is 'famine'.Precisely. Having a million soldiers isn't enough. You need to feed them, arm them, maintain and repair their equipment, train them, and so on.
On the eve of the first battle you just jam the radio signals and blast over loudspeakers that SK will grant 100% amnesty for anyone who lays down their weapons, along with a hot meal.
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It's everything South Korea wanted for Christmas.
Things have been ramping up to establish the next leader for some time now. The sinking of the ROK ship, the missiles fired over Japan, ect. China will keep them in check if it suits them. Probably along with some deal to keep the US from selling any more hardware to Taiwan.
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On the eve of the first battle you just jam the radio signals and blast over loudspeakers that SK will grant 100% amnesty for anyone who lays down their weapons, along with a hot meal.It's also hard to maintain a fighting force when your number one export is 'famine'.Precisely. Having a million soldiers isn't enough. You need to feed them, arm them, maintain and repair their equipment, train them, and so on.
And you really think that would work?
Good riddance to bad rubbish.
Even if his son/heir is as nutty as a fruit cake it will take him a while to be ready to emerge onto the world scene.
If it comes to it there may be a open war between north/south Korea but I'm not sure the U.S. would get involved.
While everyone is correct in the assumption that the south can out man power and out class the north the north is heavy on fanaticism that makes them very dangerous.
The fact of the matter is that NK is dead if it uses a nuke. If that happens, everyone will look to China, and China will not support NK.
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The fact of the matter is that NK is dead if it uses a nuke. If that happens, everyone will look to China, and China will not support NK.
The fact of the matter is that potentially thousands of people are dead if it uses nukes.
This is isn't about who 'wins': it's what actually happens to the people involved which is rather more important.
Mutually assured destruction does function as a deterrent. Don't pretend it does not.
Mutually assured destruction does function as a deterrent. Don't pretend it does not.
Considering the debate on civility we had earlier, I can't help but find this post both weird and amusing.
Then again, you are right. Fear of getting everyone killed via nukes has indeed kept us all from being killed. The history books kinda prove that.
Mutually assured destruction does function as a deterrent. Don't pretend it does not.
Thank god for the Rosenbergs!
All things aside...does Mr. Anklebiter not understand the Korean War ended the year of Stalin's DEATH!
I can only say one thing about this development.
The Korean War never officially ended.
I don't think Stalin himself had much to do with the Korean War. I'm pretty sure it was Stalin who agreed to the division of Korea into North and South.
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Mutually assured destruction does function as a deterrent. Don't pretend it does not.
The reason MAD worked in the cold war is Hiroshima and Nagasaki was fresh in peoples minds. No one (other than Mcarthur, and it figured in him getting fired) could say "they can't be that bad', lets shoot off fifty or so.
With the changes in generations and the memory fading, and more people on the trigger (who might be fanatics for the dear leader or might believe they're going to heaven for killing infidels), I wonder how soon they'll start to fly, though probably only a few.
If you say so.
I thought that Kim Il-sung had approached Stalin about invading the south and he had said "Sure, go ahead, but I don't want to be involved, go see what Mao says."
They sent some materiel assistance, but Soviet involvement in the Northern war effort seemed to be pretty minimal for a full-on proxy war.
Mutually assured destruction does function as a deterrent. Don't pretend it does not.Considering the debate on civility we had earlier, I can't help but find this post both weird and amusing.
Then again, you are right. Fear of getting everyone killed via nukes has indeed kept us all from being killed. The history books kinda prove that.
I understand what you find counter intuitive, however, there is no contradiction. When you talk about crime and punishment, that is a personal consideration, and civility is defined more or less as I did then, for the reasons and with the results I stated then.
When you are discussing nuclear weapons, that is a political consideration. Political systems are systems of consensus and bargaining, and thus have a far higher inertia in them. While someone may throw a punch or make a public fart because they did not think, nobody gets to do that with nukes. Even if you're in the most corrupt nation imaginable, nukes are a vital resource and do not just happen because someone had a bad day. If they did, we'd have had a few disasters per year or at least decade since the first nuke. This is an area where machine errors are far more likely than human errors.
It is also a question of how to protect against it. The simple truth, despite all the "Star Wars" programs of the 80s, is that you can't protect against a warhead that's in the air. It doesn't matter if you're civilized, whether you care about your fellow human beings or not, or anything of the sort. Once the nukes fly, people WILL die in huge numbers.
So, if that isn't possible, you need to prevent them flying. One approach could be that you pay someone not to fire his bombs. It isn't a scenario that's particularly healthy, because the other person could just keep demanding more money/goods/whatever, so if a positive consequence for not firing can't be dealt with in a good way, you will need a negative consequence for firing, and be clear about it so the other person will know your conditions.
Civilized or not, the existence of the bombs makes other approaches infeasible. Whatever we wish we had, MAD is the only available option. When being nice to one another is not possible, a mutual agreement not to stomp toes, backed up properly from both sides, can provide a better situation than any alternative.
Mutually assured destruction does function as a deterrent. Don't pretend it does not.The reason MAD worked in the cold war is Hiroshima and Nagasaki was fresh in peoples minds. No one (other than Mcarthur, and it figured in him getting fired) could say "they can't be that bad', lets shoot off fifty or so.
With the changes in generations and the memory fading, and more people on the trigger (who might be fanatics for the dear leader or might believe they're going to heaven for killing infidels), I wonder how soon they'll start to fly, though probably only a few.
Only two, is my guess.