I was just curious if anyone had an optimized build for a Zen Archer.
Normally I don't think of archery as the best way to do damage, but I have seen some decent theory on how to do it.
So my question is...
If you were to build a new level 7 Zen Archer with appropriate gear for that level, how would you do it?
I am limited to core races and Pathfinder materials, any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Forgot to mention: 20 point buy.
Str 16 Dex 13 Con 14 Int 9 Wis 18 Cha 7
Half Elf
Zen Archer
Skill Focus(perception)
1 Alertness
B Precise Shot
B Point Blank Shot
B Weapon Focus (long bow)
3 Deadly Aim
B Point Blank Mastery
5 Elven Accuracy
B Weapon Specialization (long bow)
B Improved Precise Shot
7 Cluster Shot
Vows:
Cleanliness
Truth
Celibacy
For me the perception is simply how I like to roll with a monk, having an extra +7 from the feats and half elf race stacks well with the incredible wisdom you want for a monk (puts you up to 14+level).
Dexterity is very much a secondary stat since wisdom does almost everything you want and need dexterity for normally. Strength is wanted for the increased damage but if you want to put resources towards something else it won't kill you at all. Reducing strength down to a 14 will give enough points to put intelligence and charisma back to 10 if you don't like to dump.
The ability adjustment from level is already applied.
|
Str 16 Dex 13 Con 14 Int 9 Wis 18 Cha 7
Half Elf
Zen ArcherSkill Focus(perception)
1 Alertness
B Precise Shot
B Point Blank Shot
B Weapon Focus (long bow)
3 Deadly Aim
B Point Blank Mastery
5 Elven Accuracy
B Weapon Specialization (long bow)
B Improved Precise Shot
7 Cluster ShotVows:
Cleanliness
Truth
CelibacyFor me the perception is simply how I like to roll with a monk, having an extra +7 from the feats and half elf race stacks well with the incredible wisdom you want for a monk (puts you up to 14+level).
Dexterity is very much a secondary stat since wisdom does almost everything you want and need dexterity for normally. Strength is wanted for the increased damage but if you want to put resources towards something else it won't kill you at all. Reducing strength down to a 14 will give enough points to put intelligence and charisma back to 10 if you don't like to dump.
The ability adjustment from level is already applied.
zen archers cant take the vows. they dont have still mind to give up (they get point blank master instead)
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Please note they don't have to give it up unless they still have it. It simply states they never gain it. Which isn't a problem if you don't have it.
However after looking it over again I wouldn't take Celibacy as your allies can't touch you to deliver buffs.
Please note that unlike any other ability the vows don't say they replace still mind, only that you are not allowed to have still mind and the vows.
You don't have to take vows until after the fact. This is specifically (explicitly even) stated in their write up. So by your reading you would gain still mind at level three and only lose it once you take a vow.
Thank you for pointing out the error on cluster shots, I missed it the first time through (obviously).
A bit of both -- It simply struck me as more efficient over all for the point buy and for the off chance you want to make an unarmed strike.
In addition that +1 damage comes out to +3~+6 total at level 8 once you are making 4~6 attacks a round (1 haste, 4 flurry, 1 Ki) -- it adds up. I certainly wouldn't argue against a higher wisdom score, though I might fix the intelligence dump before going to wisdom 20 (especially since dropping the strength down won't give enough to make it to 20 on its own).
|
|
Zen Archer is so stacked with bonus feats and innate power that you can goof around a little with sub-optimal roleplaying-focused races, stats, feats and skills -- and still build a very effective archer.
For example: 7th level Halfling Zen archer (4th level bump already added to WIS)
Str 12 Dex 14 Con 12 Int 12 Wis 18 Cha 9
1) Point Blank Shot, Perfect Shot; Toughness
2) Weapon Focus; Precise Shot
3) Deadly Aim, Point Blank Master; WIS for Attack
5) Improved Initiative
6) Weapon Spec, Improved Precise Shot
7) Cluster Shot
Traits: Reactionary, Militia veteran (Survival skill)
Str : 14 <- 12 (2) +2 (Belt)
Dex : 14 <- 13 (3) +1 (Level 4)
Con : 14 <- 14 (5)
INT : 10 <- 10 (0)
WIS : 20 <- 16 (10) +2 (Racial) +2 (Belt)
Cha : 10 <- 10 (0)
Human
AC : 22 = 10 + 2 (Dex) + 5 (Wis) + 1 (Ring) + 1 (Dodge) + 1 (Bracers) + 1 (Amulet) + 1 (Monk)
Feats
Bonus : Point-Blank Shot
1st : Precise Shot
1st : Dodge (M)
2nd : Deflect Arrows (M)
3rd : Mobility
5th : Skill Focus (Perception)
6th : Parting Shot (M)
7th : Shot on the Run
Class Abilities :
1st : Flurry of Blows, Perfect Strike, AC Bonus, Unarmed Strike
2nd : Way of the Bow
3rd : Zen Archery, Point Blank Master
4th : Ki Pool
5th : Ki Arrow
Equipment :
Headband of Wis +2 (4,000gp)
Belt of Str +2 (4,000gp)
Amulet of Natural Armor +1 (2,000gp)
Bracers of Armor +1 (1,000gp)
Efficient Quiver (1,800gp)
Eyes of the Eagle (2,500gp)
+1 Composite Long bow (+2 Str) (2,600gp)
Ring of Protection +1 (2,000gp)
Ring of Sustenance (2,500gp)
22,600 (leaves 1100gp for various sundries)
What I like about this one is, he can use his monk's speed to get around and still attack, he has decent AC, and can avoid attacks of opportunity. Also, he's great for sniping from long range (Far shot) combined with a high perception (23 if he maxes out his ranks in Perception). He can stand watch all night, other than 2 hours of sleep. He doesn't have a lot of heavy equipment, so he doesn't need a haversack or bag. He could still carry stuff for the party if he needed to with a MW backpack. And he's got 1100gp left over for various other things. I also like the fact that he didn't dump any stat below 10, so he's got no penalties on anything. His base attack on a standard shot with the bow is +12, which is not bad at level 7.
Don't forget to have your favorite bow enchanted with permanent gravity bow spell.
I don't think it's actually legal to do so. The spell is a personal spell, which is I believe ineligable for normal magic item creation. Just like you can't create an item of permanent mage armor.
Go dwarf heres why:
Darkvision
+2 to Wis and Con. Zen Archer is not MAD like a normal monk, you really only need Wis.
Hardy (which will qualify you for steel soul and make your saves even more awesome.
The fast movement makes you the most mobile dwarf ever.
See if you can get the guided weapon property in order to add wis to your damage. Also think about taking stunning fist as a feat you still get unarmed strike and your still a monk so its a good fallback to have in case you fight captain sunder and the sunderlings.
Just come up with a sweet backstory like how you were getting harassed by some elves and wanted to show them that you can be better than them with their own iconic weapon.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I will probably go with something like this if I choose Human. Right now the last step for me is the race. (I know many want race to be the first thing)
Str 15 +1 (4th) (+2 Belt)
Dex 13
Con 12
Wisdom 16 +2 (Racial) (+2 Headband)
Int 10
Cha 8
Feat Selection.
1. Bonus: Point Blank 1st level: Improved Initiative, Bonus: Toughness
2. Bonus: Precise Shot
3. Deadly Aim (Pre-req 13 dex)
5. Extra Ki
6. Improved Precise Shot
7. Nimble Moves (The DM loves Difficult Terrain)
9. Cluster Shot
Magic items look like this:
Headband of Wisdom +2
Belt of Strength +2
Bracers of armor +1
Ring of Protection+1
Composite (+4) Long Bow +2
Endless Quiver (DM said I could work up the stats for it for the same price as a small bag of holding filled to the brim with arrows) or 2583 gold.
Cloak of resistance
Traits: Random +2 Initiative Feat and Heirloom Weapon (Free masterwork weapon and a +1 attack bonus just because.)
Flurry at 7th level looks like this: (Within 30 feet)
+5 BAB + 5 Wis + 2 Magic + 1 Heirloom -2 Deadly Aim + 1 Point Blank Shot Total +13 to hit. So (13/13/8) and spending a ki point 13/13/13/8
Damage looks like: 1d8 + 4 Str +2 Magic +4 Deadly Aim + 2 Specialization +1 Point Blank. Or 1d8+13 per arrow.
Saves are Fort 7, Reflex 7, Will 11
Stats placed as they are should also give me around 35 skill points.
The main reason I am tempted for Dwarf is Darkvision, but I am not dead set on human.
AC is only 19 but that shouldn't be much of a problem as I always plan to stay far away from the baddies.
Would you guys do anything differently?
I don't think it's actually legal to do so. The spell is a personal spell, which is I believe ineligable for normal magic item creation. Just like you can't create an item of permanent mage armor.
I am not quite sure what you mean here. Bracers of armor are permanent mage armors, so the items are there. You are probably confusing something here, mage armor is a touch range spell :-)
Also there is no rule with that "personal" limitation I am aware of except for potions (so you can't have a potion of shield, but a wand of shield is fine as are wonderous items with shield priced highly).
What is the formula for permenantly ennchanting somethiing with a spell like gravity bow?
Looking at the table and the entry of gravity bow it turns out that gived you something like a 1d4-1d6 extra damage (1d8->2d6, 1d12->3d6 etc.) I would say it's either
-
+1 bonus cost - it ups your damage, but not to-hit, damage reduction type or hardness; or
- (+3 average damage)^2*2000/2 (no attack bonus etc.) / 2 (damage can be lower the +3, plus no overcoming DR or such) = 4500gp flat price
Others might come up with different values, but I think this is fair. I would personally go with the +1 cost - it's the simplest variant.
I don't think it's actually legal to do so. The spell is a personal spell, which is I believe ineligable for normal magic item creation. Just like you can't create an item of permanent mage armor.I am not quite sure what you mean here. Bracers of armor are permanent mage armors, so the items are there. You are probably confusing something here, mage armor is a touch range spell :-)
Also there is no rule with that "personal" limitation I am aware of except for potions (so you can't have a potion of shield, but a wand of shield is fine as are wonderous items with shield priced highly).
Bracers of Armor are NOT permanent mage armor. Mage Armor is a required spell to create them. If it was permanent mage armor, it would cost Spell level x caster level x 2,000 for a permanent spell, which for Mage Armor would be 1st level spell x 1st level caster x 2,000, or 2,000 gp for a +4 AC. It would always be a +4 AC and always cost 2,000gp.
Bracers of Armor use the spell, but they are instead costed at Bonus^2 * 1,000, so +4 AC Bracers cost 16,000gp.
You are correct though that I got the Mage Armor spell incorrect as being personal.
I don't think it's actually legal to do so. The spell is a personal spell, which is I believe ineligable for normal magic item creation. Just like you can't create an item of permanent mage armor.I am not quite sure what you mean here. Bracers of armor are permanent mage armors, so the items are there. You are probably confusing something here, mage armor is a touch range spell :-)
Also there is no rule with that "personal" limitation I am aware of except for potions (so you can't have a potion of shield, but a wand of shield is fine as are wonderous items with shield priced highly).Bracers of Armor are NOT permanent mage armor. Mage Armor is a required spell to create them. If it was permanent mage armor, it would cost Spell level x caster level x 2,000 for a permanent spell, which for Mage Armor would be 1st level spell x 1st level caster x 2,000, or 2,000 gp for a +4 AC. It would always be a +4 AC and always cost 2,000gp.
Bracers of Armor use the spell, but they are instead costed at Bonus^2 * 1,000, so +4 AC Bracers cost 16,000gp.
You are correct though that I got the Mage Armor spell incorrect as being personal.
I think you are looking at the wrong table entry :-) To price an item, you always look at the effect first, not the source. Mage armor gives an armor bonus, so you look at the armor bonus table - which sets the price to the 1000*armor bonus^2.
So this is a permanent mage armor item. Otherwise please point out which abilities the bracers lack compared to the spell :-)
I think you are looking at the wrong table entry :-) To price an item, you always look at the effect first, not the source. Mage armor gives an armor bonus, so you look at the armor bonus table - which sets the price to the 1000*armor bonus^2.
So this is a permanent mage armor item. Otherwise please point out which abilities the bracers lack compared to the spell :-)
No I'm not. You stated permanent mage armor, which by deffinition, is a permanent mage armor spell (duh, kind of inherent in the name). Bracers of armor are NOT a permanent mage armor spell.
A permanent mage armor spell would be on the line
Use-activated or continuous Spell level x caster level x 2,000 gp
Instead, it is just an item that requires mage armor to create, and uses the formula of 1000*AC^2, as you state. Where is it different?
That's rather simple actually. Mage Armor is +4 only. By your logic, bracers of armor should only come in +4 AC varieties. They don't, they come in +1 to +8. What do the Bracers have that the spell doesn't? +1 to +3 ac settings, and +5 to +8 AC settings. The spell is fixed at +4.
I think you are looking at the wrong table entry :-) To price an item, you always look at the effect first, not the source. Mage armor gives an armor bonus, so you look at the armor bonus table - which sets the price to the 1000*armor bonus^2.
So this is a permanent mage armor item. Otherwise please point out which abilities the bracers lack compared to the spell :-)No I'm not. You stated permanent mage armor, which by deffinition, is a permanent mage armor spell (duh, kind of inherent in the name). Bracers of armor are NOT a permanent mage armor spell.
A permanent mage armor spell would be on the line
Use-activated or continuous Spell level x caster level x 2,000 gp
Instead, it is just an item that requires mage armor to create, and uses the formula of 1000*AC^2, as you state. Where is it different?
That's rather simple actually. Mage Armor is +4 only. By your logic, bracers of armor should only come in +4 AC varieties. They don't, they come in +1 to +8. What do the Bracers have that the spell doesn't? +1 to +3 ac settings, and +5 to +8 AC settings. The spell is fixed at +4.
I disagree here. Again, I think you are looking at it the wrong way.
Example: By your logic, a permanent true strike wondrous item would only cost 2000 gp.By my logic, it would be something between 400000 and 800000 gp (looking at the weapon bonus charts, deducting some for the lack of damage increase).
There are multiple threads on the pricing of magic items, and I believe my opinion reflects their outcome.
Note that variations in spell effects are always possible, hence the +1-+8.
And just to be clear: Yes, you can have a permanent mage armor item for the cost you want. It's just more expensive than necessary cause you should look at the effect of an item for the pricing :-)
*boggle*
At no point did I say you should be able to buy a permanent mage armor for 2,000 gp. All I said was that your statement that bracers of armor are permanent mage armor was wrong, which it is. Bracers of Armor are their own entity. If they were permanent mage armor, they would be +4 and cost 2,000 gp. That was what I said. I stand by that statement, it is 100% correct. If you state anything else, you are incorrect.
That does not make them a legal item (in fact, I pointed out in my original post that the way to get them is to use the formula for the AC, which would make the +4 version 16,000gp).
I begin to suspect you are just arguing to be arguing. Either that or you are not actually reading my posts.
*boggle*
At no point did I say you should be able to buy a permanent mage armor for 2,000 gp. All I said was that your statement that bracers of armor are permanent mage armor was wrong, which it is. Bracers of Armor are their own entity. If they were permanent mage armor, they would be +4 and cost 2,000 gp. That was what I said. I stand by that statement, it is 100% correct. If you state anything else, you are incorrect.
That does not make them a legal item (in fact, I pointed out in my original post that the way to get them is to use the formula for the AC, which would make the +4 version 16,000gp).
I begin to suspect you are just arguing to be arguing. Either that or you are not actually reading my posts.
Ah, now it makes sense. I rechecked your post and interpreted your statement "just like you cannot create an item of permanent mage armor" differently that you meant it. You apparently meant that you cannot use the table entries for permanent magic items which would price it at 2000.
Rereading your post, you kind of explained that later, but I read it differently. So apparently we are on the same page here.