Why do spontaneous casters have slower spell level progression than prepared ones?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

101 to 108 of 108 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>

Peter Stewart wrote:

For those curious, in my Saturday game we bumped the sorcerer up a level on his spells per day/spells known chart, so he gains spell levels at the same level as the wizard, and haven't seen any problems in a party that includes one of each.

14th level at the moment.

YYMV though.

I know this is not the same but to me this seems similar. I do believe that giving a fighter +2 ab at level 3, 9, 15 would not break the class it may not even marginalize the other classes but it would change the power levels of the class. In a more RP setting the classes do not need to be balanced. If the gm wants more people to play a sorc then it is fine. It wont munchkinize the class. It may really help those who do min max it.

@wraithstrike I wish I had a dm who would let me metamagic my spells for no extra cast time. I love silent and still while greater invisible. no idea where you are. and you would still get to move :-)


Not to add to the fire (because i think that the "obscure" spells means house rules etc.) there may be there for bloodlines giving spells that aren't in the sorc/wizard list, like the draconic bloodline giving you spell resistance.


I think it's based on the erroneous belief that being able to choose what spells you cast each round is more powerful than being able to choose what spells you cast each day.

I like the idea of giving Sorcerers their bloodline spells two levels earlier, but I'd say that the bloodline spell should be the only spell they know at that level. Let them cast it twice per day a level early, so that you can keep the rest of the chart unchanged.

Shadow Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

...casting spontaneously from a list of one isn't casting spontaneously.


And this is why my houserule gives the bloodline spell and a spell of choice of the appropriate level. It only gives one spell per day at that point though, so unless you've got bonus slots from casting attribute, you have one slot to choose which spell to spontaneously cast in it.


The 1 level behind the Wizard progression was made out of balancing reasons.
And it was one of the worst design decisions to take with a Core Class in 3.X. Sure casting spontaneously IS POWERFUL. But this would have been fixed more easily by giving them 1 slot (per day) less than they have currently. Or give them a kind of restriction like the cleric (lawful vs chaotic). Or make them more like bards who need a bonus slot in that level (especially when coupled with the less slots per day) to cast it.
So you would need a bonus slot in the 6th grade to get to cast that spell in lvl 11.

Most people playing Wizards ,note that this especially applies if they have to play him from level 1, will NEVER EVER sacrifice a caster level unless its a special build (eldritch knight). If you min max that may be different, especially with blasters and the crossblooded Sorcerer 1 lvl dip.

So it would look more like this

1st 3
2nd 4
3rd 5 0
4th 5 3

spells per day caps at 5 instead of 6 and you get 0 spells per day at the level the Wizard gets it "naturally".
If you want you can still add some "casting restrictions" like he must decide for lawful/good/evil/chaotic spells... Or whatever


Spontaneous casting from a tiny list isn't powerful, it's just spammable. Spamming the same thing over and over again =/= powerful. With one of two non-core Paizo-published Pathfinder items a Wizard gains far more spontaneity than a Sorcerer.


TOZ wrote:
...casting spontaneously from a list of one isn't casting spontaneously.

Sorcerers never cast from a list of one though they always have the option to cast lower level spells with those slots, an option that becomes more powerful if you actually use metamagic.

Metamagic rods are a strike against the sorcerer in that regard, they should be renamed 'cheese sticks', effectively casting spells above your levels with items that are too cheap in comparison, besides bypassing the feat. Both metamagic and the rods could use a significant rewrite.

Arcane Bond is another strike against the sorcerer, once per day they can cast the one spell that makes everything right, if the goal was versatility over power it should probably not include the highest level spells a wizard can cast.

Sorcerers make for very tough undead though that could be considered a strike against the wizard, tohugh really this is mostly for the GM.

Wizards just gets some of his spells for free, most are still going to cost him, human sorcerers are able to get a load of spells at the expense of some hitpoints but at least they won't cost money.

Sorcerers are pretty good at UMD, it can help with some of that lack in versatility, ofcourse that is going to cost money and wizards have better options/more feats to craft them.

* If the sorcerer can cast a single spell per day more of every level or so I do not see a reason to have them stay behind on the spell progression, I also think metamagic is at least as fitting for a sorcerer as a wizard, but they lack they get less bonus feats, I'd rather see the option to take either a bloodline feat or a bonus feat boosting up the progression to the same pace a wizard gets bonus feats.

101 to 108 of 108 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / General Discussion / Why do spontaneous casters have slower spell level progression than prepared ones? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.