I'd say it depends on the terrain. If it is an open area 200ft away is very easy to see someone, but not necessarily hear them. In a heavily wooded area the guy is much harder to see but easier to hear. The example you gave would basically have Bill (at a grand total of 1) bumping into just about everything possible and cursing audibly at himself for stepping on every twig. While there may not be critical successes or failures, that's about as close as you can get. Basically, I see no problem with that range increment.
I don't quite no where I'd cap the distance, but I wouldn't have someone roll stealth unless they could conceivably be perceived. So your friend's interpretation is fair enough.
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The rules for wilderness (about halfway in that page) give the encounter distances for different terrains. Unless there are special circumstances those are the suggested distances at which you should start to make stealth and perception checks.
I say suggested as, AFAIK, there are no iron clad rules about that.
200 feet is really not very far.
A Paladin with no skill at sneaking about bumbling along bumping into things (rolling a 1) is pretty obvious to all but the blind and deaf cripple with a cup hoping for coppers.
Assuming your no skill Paladin managed to have an average roll (ie didn't completely bungle) he'd have ended up a fair bit closer, and be able to close the distance very quickly once 'discovered'.
I agree that there should be opposed checks used, but with the caveat that they take all their modifiers too.
What I find cheezy is the minute you ask for checks the players magically become more alert and tactical...
Maybe have them throw down a couple of rolls each to represent their alertness on that guard shift or whatever.
200 feet is really not very far.
A Paladin with no skill at sneaking about bumbling along bumping into things (rolling a 1) is pretty obvious to all but the blind and deaf cripple with a cup hoping for coppers.
Assuming your no skill Paladin managed to have an average roll (ie didn't completely bungle) he'd have ended up a fair bit closer, and be able to close the distance very quickly once 'discovered'.
I agree that there should be opposed checks used, but with the caveat that they take all their modifiers too.
What I find cheezy is the minute you ask for checks the players magically become more alert and tactical...Maybe have them throw down a couple of rolls each to represent their alertness on that guard shift or whatever.
I agree on both points here first off seeing the paladin can't be that hard he is harder to see than a football and kicks and passes go around 200 ft quite often in games.
Second I would tell the players that if they aren't asking for checks you will apply stealth as if they are taking 10 and only call for a roll if its reasonably close IE a player when taking 10 has a 22 the goblin is stealthing ona 25 its roll time if the goblin had a 45 no point in rolling.
what kind of armor is Bill wearing? With armor check penalties, that 1 could be plunged to as low as -15.
Keep in mind that just because someone succeeds in rolling a greater perception vs stealth, it doesn't mean they know the intent or "what is actually going on" when they notice the person. All it means is that they become aware of the other person. It's not like the guard would instantly shout "I see you trying to be stealthy! Attack!!!! gaaaa!!!" That's unrealistic. For all he knows, you're just some shmuck out in the woods, if you're out in the woods that is. The GM can say you stepped on a twig or whatever but in the end all it means is that the guard now knows where you are. Unless conditions change, the guard knows where you are and until they do, you can't make another stealth roll.
Unless you are dressed in a ninja costume and make a diving roll every time you have to cross open space wider than 1 meter. Also constantly assuming martial arts stances would also be suspicious. ^^
Unless you are dressed in a ninja costume and make a diving roll every time you have to cross open space wider than 1 meter. Also constantly assuming martial arts stances would also be suspicious. ^^
Wider than a meter? Why the limitation? Ninja rolls are to be made for ALL sneaky movement. If the roll distance is further than what you needed, you have to keep rolling until you end behind cover.
There is probably a way to construct a maze such that a ninja can never stop rolling. Heh. That's a good mental picture: a few dozen ninjas rolling around forever.
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I generally have guards take 10. If their perception beats your stealth (plus or minus other modifiers not including distance) then any points that exceed your roll go to distance.
For example: if you roll 20 on stealth and the guard rolls 23 then he sees you 30 feet away. If the guard rolls a 20 then he sees you at less than 10 feet.