Hey guys,
I've been having issues with this dread necromancer class. I fix it, and half my party cries out because they feel it was unbalanced. This made me take a hard look at the class, and how classes are built now.
I think that the original Dread Necromancer was just... too strange of a class to be brought into the modular world of Pathfinder.
I took what I could out of the class to keep the flavor, without losing (I hope) too much crunch. My goal here is to make a class in line with other classes that resembles a strange mix of spell caster and undead master.
Dread necromancer spell selection is horrid. Because of that reason I've added a few more class features to make up.
Tell me what you think.
The Dread Necromancer v3
Also, do people like Google Docs or PDFs more?
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I'm having a little troub;e reading the doc, so this may or may not be helpful. I loved and at the same time hated the Dread Neco. I loved the idea, but there where a lot of issues with it. Especially at low levels, it is very hard to play and be very affective at much.
It also needed some errata that never came it's way, mostly in the spells area.
One of the issues I had is that it is, all in all a fairly weak caster class that tries to do too much.
Undead Controlling class that also has some decent "dark and evil" type spells from random schools, but it at the same time does not have most of the needed defenses that a casters needs while encouraging close combat.
It looks like it gets a lot of class features, but most actually don't amount to much, (besides looking cool on paper). I personally think it should be a Divine Class, not Arcane, especially based on the flavor, but that's just me.
Another issue with the class is it doesn't have a lot of actual synergy with itself. It gets no 0 Level spells, like say READ MAGIC, or even Detect Magic, meaning it has issues even using necromancy scrolls or items, much less other magic items. It gets a spell or two twice (at two different spell levels. . .), gets a spell to control demons (I forget which off hand), but doesn't get the other required spell to make the first one actually work (Magic Circle). It gets the ability to add Necromancy spells know from the Wizard or Cleric spell Lists, . . . except at the points you actually get that ability (which can't be post-ponned till later either), you essentually have a selection of maybe 2 possible spells (after looking in the Spell Compendium and a few other books that come out AFTER HoH. . .).
Some people don't like the fact that it gets the ability to create undead later than the Cleric, but I think this is a good thing (and PF's Lesser Animate Dead fixes that anyway). The other major issue I have is that a lot of the wording for abilities, especially the later ones like become a lich for free, are a little strange, open to a little too much interpretation, if you know what I mean.
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I noticed the problem is still there. Planer Binding requires Magic Circle to work, which the Dread Necro doens't get and rellying on a scroll's DC = suicide, or rather your PC is now an NPC Dominated by whatever you just tried to summon and bind. . . [sarcasm]"Good job"[/sarcasm] :).
I also notice that your Dread Necro gets Channel Energy, but not Rebuke Undead, while the older version essentually got both.
Might also drop the HD to d6, as this class really is not meant for close combat, while D8 makes you want to risk it when you really shouldn't.
Maybe drop Greater Harm (a weak trap for a 9th level spell, and regular Harm is better except for potentually 2 out of 20 levels anyway) and Mass Harm (if Clerics don't get it, DN's sure shouldn't either).
Thanks for the feedback. I understand where you are having problems with the class.
Though I don't really agree in this case. Most of the issues you mentioned are from the class, and I merely brought them over. In fact, I stripped most of the abilities away and simply left the ones that made the most sense and gave the dread necro a force to use.
As for the HD, originally it was a d6 class. It tried to melt cleric and sorcerer together. If I take the HD back down do d6 then the BAB has to also go back down to nothing, which would then make the class even worse off than it already is.
I agree that the spells aren't really good, but I don't see a fix for that besides choosing entirely new spells, which will completely change the balance.
Ideas?
Personally, I would like to give it more minion spells like magic fang, etc. Honestly I don't know how to Pathfinderize a spell selection.
I think the bone oracle can come pretty close to a dread necromancer already, try replace some class abilities with appropriate revelations, the undead minion from the undead lord cleric archetype might be a revelation power. I rather see more options built in the class so you can pick your powers.
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Honestly, I would say return it almost completely to the original class, and start with a straight port. After that, I would suggest opening up the additional spells that can be learned, adding zero level spells, if only Read and Detect Magic, and adding some group buffs. One thing to note is that it is much better to have a single powerful undead than a hord of lesser ones, so I wouldn't worry too much about huge group buffs.
Also, the idea that BaB and HD must remain the same isn't really even followed by Paizo, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Lastly, I would suggest adding a note that any spells that can reasonably be seen as dark, scary, horror, or dead/undead related can be added to the DN Spell List, either for free, through research similar to a Wizard adding to a Spellbook, or through the class feature.
Also, the idea that BaB and HD must remain the same isn't really even followed by Paizo, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Hmm, well you are very wrong. That's ok, though.
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For those who are fans of necromancers but are looking for a different take on the concept, Kobold Quarterly (issue #19) has a white necromancer class. Admittedly, a white necromancer is pretty much the oposite of a dread necromancer but you still might be interested in checking it out
It has proven to be pretty popular ...
check it out here if you like :)
Sorry for the semi thread jack :)
Also, the idea that BaB and HD must remain the same isn't really even followed by Paizo, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.
DO you have an example? Because other than the barbarian, I'm pretty sure this holds consistently.
That said, I will point out that this iteration of the DN is the only full caster class that has better than 1/2 BAB. Every other class has either 3/4 BAB and caps at 6th level, or full BAB and caps at 4th level. (There's some prestige classes which come close, like the EK, which has 9/10 progression and full BAB, but prestige classes make sacrifices elsewhere.) I think it makes sense for this class to be 3/4 BAB and full caster, but it's not The Paizo Way™.
If you wanted to keep the flavor but bring it more in line with Paizo, I'd suggest modeling it on the summoner. 3/4 BAB and 6 spell levels, but their higher level spells include some 7+ level spells from the wizard or cleric lists.
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Off topic:
I dislike your jumping into a thread to post something totally off topic just to pimp out your product. Bad form.
Hi ShadowcatX
My apologies. I really was reading this thread just because the topic interests me and honestly just thought others reading might be interested in a different take on a necromancer. I honestly didn't just 'just to pimp out a product'. I'm sincerely sorry if you feel it was bad form (honestly - no snark intended!)
I hope you don't mind if I continue to read (and maybe even post again in)this thread :)
Back on topic :)
As Beckett suggested, I also think the best option might be to start with the class as published and try a more or less direct port to the Pathfinder RPG rules first, tweaking as needed to bring in line with similar Paizo classes.
I'm currently working on a dread necromancer conversion. I'm going to try to do it as +3/4 BAB, Good Will, 1d8 HD, 4 + Int skill, 9 level caster with plenty of class feature options and still be pretty balanced.
But considering it's most likely to be an NPC class (my players like to be heroes, not villains!), I'm a little less concerned with balance between classes than CR appropriateness.
One slight tweak I'm doing is giving it the option to turn into a choice between turning into a ghost, lich, or vampire at 20th level, with apotheosis-flavored abilities gained as the dread necromancer advances.
I think the way to go with the Dread Necromancer is to move it fully into the PFRPG realm of modularity, with options to focus more heavily on the lich conversion, undead creating/controlling, or spellcasting aspects of the class.
The first might grant greater benefits to becoming a lich, and may grant them earlier. This would play up the idea of the DR wading directly into combat; more HP, damage reduction, attack bonus, on-hit special effects, self-healing, etc...
The second would have the stuff like making stronger undead, more undead, granting undead created by you special abilities, etc...
The last would improve spellcasting somehow, maybe with carrier effects, or more spell options.
The spell list needs revising as well--it needs some more utility spells, possibly with the selection being partly dependent upon the path chosen (more personal defensive buffs for the path of the lich, more group buffs for path of the controller, etc...).
I'd say leave it at a d6 with 1/2 BAB progression, but with the 3 styles granting bonus to-hit and HP bumps depending on the role.
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DREAD NECROMANCER
BAB: +1/2
Good Saves: Will
Hit Dice: 1d6
Class Skills: Bluff, Craft, Disguise, Heal, Intimidate, Knowledge arcana, Knowledge history, Knowledge planes, Knowledge religion, Linguistics, Profession, Ride, Spellcraft, Stealth, Use Magic Device.
Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Intelligence modifier
Dread Necromancers are proficient in all simple weapons and 1 martial weapon. The dread necromancer selects the martial weapon at 1st level and cannot change this selection. Dread Necromancers are proficient in all light armor, but not shields. Dread Necromancers do not suffer the normal arcane spell failure for casting spells from the dread necromancer spell list while wearing light armor.
LEVEL ABILITY
1. Cantrips, Channel Energy 1d6, Charnel Touch, Detect Undead, Dread Bond
2. Bonus Feat, Dread Power, Dread Scion
3. Advanced Learning 1,Channel Energy 2d6
4. Dread Legacy, Dread Power
5. Advanced Learning 2, Channel Energy 3d6
6. Bonus Feat, Dread Power
7. Advanced Learning 3, Channel Energy 4d6
8. Dread Legacy, Dread Power, Improved Dread Powers
9. Advanced Learning 4, Channel Energy 5d6
10. Bonus Feat, Dread Power
11. Advanced Learning 5, Channel Energy 6d6
12. Dread Legacy, Dread Power
13. Advanced Learning 6, Channel Energy 7d6
14. Bonus Feat, Dread Power, Greater Dread Powers
15. Advanced Learning 7, Channel Energy 8d6
16. Dread Legacy, Dread Power
17. Advanced Learning 8, Channel Energy 9d6
18. Bonus Feat, Dread Power
19. Advanced Learning 9, Channel Energy 10d6
20. Dread Power, Ultimate Dread Power, Undead Apotheosis
Spellcasting: A dread necromancer casts arcane spells, which are drawn from the dread necromancer’s spell list (see the appendix at the end). Like a sorcerer, she can cast any spell she knows without preparing it ahead of time. When a dread necromancer gains access to a new level of spells, she automatically knows all the spells for that level given on the dread necromancer’s spell list. Dread necromancers also have the option of adding to their existing spell list through their advanced learning ability as they increase in
level (see below). To cast a spell, a dread necromancer must have a Charisma
score of 10 + the spell’s level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a dread necromancer’s spell is 10 + the spell’s level + her Charisma modifier. Like other
spellcasters, a dread necromancer can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is the same as a sorcerer‘s of her level. In addition, she receives bonus spells for a high Charisma score.
Channel Energy (Su): Regardless of alignment, any dread necromancer can release a wave of negative energy by channeling the power of undeath through her body. A dread necromancer channels negative energy and can choose to deal damage to living creatures or to heal undead creatures.
Channeling energy causes a burst that affects all creatures of one type (either undead or living) in a 30-foot radius centered on the dread necromancer. The amount of damage dealt or healed is equal to 1d6 points of damage plus 1d6 points of damage for every two dread necromancer levels beyond 1st (2d6 at 3rd, 3d6 at 5th, and so on). Creatures that take damage from channeled energy receive a Will save to halve the damage. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the dread necromancer's level + the dread necromancer's Charisma modifier. Creatures healed by channel energy cannot exceed their maximum hit point total—all excess healing is lost. A dread necromancer may channel energy a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier. This is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. A dread necromancer can choose whether or not to include herself in this effect.
Charnel Touch (Su): Negative energy flows through a dread necromancer’s body, concentrating in her hands. A number of times per day equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier, a dread necromancer can make a touch attack that causes 1d8 points of damage + half her dread necromancer level to living creatures. The dread necromancer can also use this ability to heal undead of a like amount. A dread necromancer can use the spectral hand spell to deliver this effect from a distance.
Detect Undead (Sp): The dread necromancer can use detect undead at will.
Dread Bond (Su): Dread necromancers form a powerful bond with one of two kinds of undead servants. This bond can take one of two forms: a familiar or a guardian spirit. A familiar is a magical pet that enhances the dread necromancer's skills and senses and can aid him in magic, while a guardian spirit is a creature that can defend the dread necromancer in combat. Once a dread necromancer makes this choice, it is permanent and cannot be changed.
If the dread necromancer selects the familiar option, she uses her dread necromancer level as her equivalent wizard level, and uses all the standard rules for familiars, save the dread necromancer’s familiar has either the skeleton or zombie template, but retains its Intelligence score.
If the dread necromancer selects the guardian spirit , she gains the service of a Small or Medium sized skeleton or zombie. Unlike a normal skeleton or zombie, this undead’s alignment matches that of the dread necromancer. The guardian spirit receives a +4 bonus on Will saves made to halve the damage from positive channeled energy and the guardian spirit cannot be turned or commanded. The guardian spirit has a number of hit points equal to half the dread necromancer’s total. The guardian spirit uses the dread necromancer's base attack bonus and base save bonuses. The guardian spirit is proficient in all simple weapons and light armor. Even though these undead remain mindless, they gain a bonus feat at 3rd feat and every 2 feats beyond 3rd. These bonus feats must be selected from the following list of feats; the guardian spirit must meet the requirements of the selected feat:
Blind-Fight, Bodyguard, Combat Reflexes, Deepsight, Dodge, Eldritch Claws, Heavy Armor Proficiency, Fleet, Great Fortitude, Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Armor, Improved Natural Attack, Improved Vital Strike, In Harm’s Way, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Medium Armor Proficiency, Missile Shield, Rending Claws, Shield Focus, Shield Proficiency, Skill Focus, Toughness, Vital Strike, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, or any Teamwork Feat.
Bonus Feat: At 2nd level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the dread necromancer gains one of the following feats; the dread necromancer must meet any requirements of the selected feat.
Channel Smite, Channeled Shield Wall, Command Undead, Extra Channel, Greater Channel Smite, Greater Spell Focus necromancy, Improved Channel, Necromantic Affinity, Quick Channel, Selective Channel, Sin Seer, Skeleton Summoner, Spell Focus necromancy, Turn Undead.
Dread Power (Ex, Sp, or Su): At 2nd level, and every 2 levels thereafter, the dread necromancer gains one of the following abilities.
Blood Bound Tactics (Ex): The dread necromancer and her guardian spirit are treated as if they possessed the same teamwork feats as each other, but only when using each other as the other qualifying member of the teamwork feat. Of course, the dread necromancer and her guardian spirit can use any teamwork feat they know with other allies that also possess the same teamwork feat, as normal.
Charnel Ray (Su): The dread necromancer can use her charnel touch ability as a ray, making a ranged touch attack with a range of 60 feet.
Dread Aura (Su): As a swift action, a dread necromancer can radiate an aura of fear that targets all adjacent enemies. Enemies in the area must succeed on a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 her class level + her Cha modifier) or become shaken until they are no longer adjacent to the dread necromancer. A creature who successfully saves cannot be affected by that dread necromancer’s fear aura for 24 hours.
Eyes of the Dead (Su): The dread necromancer gains darkvision 60 feet (or increases any existing darkvision by 60 feet) and gains the ability to use deathwatch at will as an always active supernatural ability.
Ghastly Minion (Su): The dread necromancer may add the bloody skeleton, burning skeleton, fast zombie, or plague zombie template to her guardian spirit.
Light Fortification (Ex): The dread necromancer gains 25% resistance to critical hits; this is the equivalent of the light fortification armor special ability.
Hungry Grave (Ex): The dread necromancer adds the following spells to her list of spells known; she must still be of the appropriate level to cast the spell: acid pit, create pit, expeditious excavation, hungry pit, imprisonment, meld into stone, move earth, passwall, spiked pit.
Mental Bastion (Ex): The dread necromancer gains a +2 bonus on saving throws made against all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms). This bonus increases to +4 at 8th level, and +6 at 14th level.
Physical Bastion (Ex): The dread necromancer gains a +2 bonus on saving throws made against bleed, death effects, disease, paralysis, poison, sleep effects, and stunning. This bonus increases to +4 at 8th level, and +6 at 14th level.
Potent Channeling (Su): The dread necromancer adds her Charisma modifier to the amount of damage cured or inflicted when she channels negative energy. She reduces the channel resistance (if any) of her target by an amount equal to her Charisma modifier.
Scabrous Touch (Su): Once per day a dread necromancer can use her charnel
touch to inflict disease on a creature she touches. This ability works like the contagion spell inflicting the disease of her choice immediately, with no incubation period, unless the target makes a successful Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 her class level + her Cha
modifier). The DC for subsequent saving throws to resist the effects of the disease depends on the disease inflicted. Activating this class feature is a swift action. The effect lasts until the dread necromancer makes a successful charnel touch attack. The spectral hand spell enables a dread necromancer to deliver a scabrous touch attack from a distance. At 8th level, the dread necromancer can use this ability 2 times a day. At 14th level, she can use this ability 3 times per day.
Shaped Channeling (Su): The dread necromancer can choose to channel energy in a cone with a range of 60 feet or as a line with a range of 120 feet.
Summon Spirits of the Damned (Ex): The dread necromancer adds the spells Summon Monster I through Summon Monster IX to her list of spells. The dread necromancer must select this dread power at the same time she selects Skeleton Summoner as a bonus feat, and the dread necromancer must also have Spell Focus necromancy before selecting this dread power. Every time she casts any summon monster spell, she must apply the skeleton template to the creature or creatures she summons and cannot summon a creature that does not qualify for the skeleton template; this overrides the 1 per day limit of the Skeleton Summoner feat.
Undead Physique (Ex): The dread necromancer reacts to positive and negative energy as if she were undead. Negative energy heals her and positive energy heals her.
Dread Scion (Ex): At 2nd level, the dread necromancer selects one of the following undead: ghost, lich, or vampire. They gain a +2 profane bonus on Charisma checks against the selected form of undead. This selection of undead form also determines what kind of undead legacy powers she can select, and what kind of undead she will turn into upon reaching her undead apotheosis at 20th level.
Advanced Learning (Ex): At 3rd level, a dread necromancer can add a new spell to her list, representing the result of personal study and experimentation. The spell must be
a cleric/oracle, druid, sorcerer/wizard, or witch spell of the necromancy school, and of a level no higher than that of the highest-level spell the dread necromancer already knows. Once a new spell is selected, it is added to that dread necromancer’s spell list and can be cast just like any other spell she knows. If a spell is on multiple spell lists, use the lower of the spell levels (when different) to determine what level the spell is for a dread necromancer. The dread necromancer gains an additional spell at 5th level and every 2 levels thereafter.
Dread Legacy (Ex, Sp, or Su): At 4th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the dread necromancer’s ties to her eventual undead form strengthens. She selects one of the following abilities at 4th level and one additional ability every 4 levels thereafter. She must meet the requirements of the selected dread legacy. The save DC of any Dread Legacy ability is 10 + ½ the dread necromancer’s level + her Charisma modifier.
The Ghostly Dread Legacy abilities are as follows:
Corrupting Gaze (Su): The dread necromancer has a gaze attack with a range of 30 feet that causes 2d10 damage and 1d4 Charisma damage (Fortitude save negates Charisma damage but not physical damage). The dread necromancer can use this ability a number of times per day equal to her level.
Draining Touch (Su): The dread necromancer gains a touch attack that drains 1d4 points from any one ability score it selects on a hit. On each such successful attack, the dread necromancer heals 5 points of damage. The dread necromancer can use this ability a number of times per day equal to half her level. The dread necromancer must be at least 8th level to select this ability.
Frightful Moan (Su): The dread necromancer can emit a frightful moan as a standard action. All living creatures within a 30-foot spread must succeed on a Will save or become panicked for 2d4 rounds. This is a sonic mind-affecting fear effect. A creature that successfully saves against the moan cannot be affected by the same dread necromancer's moan for 24 hours. The dread necromancer can use this ability a number of times per day equal to half her level. The dread necromancer must be at least 8th level to select this ability.
Ghost Hunter (Su): Any weapon the dread necromancer wields gains the ghost touch special ability. It loses this ability 1 round after it leaves the dread necromancer’s hands.
Ghost Touch (Su): Any armor the dread necromancer wears gains the ghost touch special ability. The dread necromancer must be at least 8th level and have the Ghost Hunter ability before selecting this ability.
Incorporeal Jaunt (Su): As a swift action, the dread necromancer can become incorporeal. The dread necromancer can remain incorporeal for a number of minutes equal to her level; these minutes do not need to be consecutive but must be used in 1 minute increments. The dread necromancer must be at least 12th level and have the Incorporeal Moment and Incorporeal Movement abilities before selecting this ability.
Incorporeal Moment (Su): As an immediate action, the dread necromancer can become incorporeal for 1 round. If this is done in response to an attack or effect, there is a 50% chance the attack or effect does not affect the dread necromancer, unless the attack or effect is a force effect. The dread necromancer can use this ability a number of times per day equal to her level. The dread necromancer must be at least 8th level and have the Incorporeal Movement ability before selecting this ability.
Incorporeal Movement (Su): The dread necromancer learns to move with alacrity. Any attack of opportunity she provokes suffers a 50% miss chance.
Malevolence (Su): Once per round, the dread necromancer can merge its body with a creature on the Material Plane. This ability is similar to a magic jar spell, except that it does not require a receptacle. To use this ability, the dread necromancer must be adjacent to the target. The target can resist the attack with a successful Will save. A creature that successfully saves is immune to that same ghost's malevolence for 24 hours. The dread necromancer can use this ability a number of times per day equal to half her level. The dread necromancer must be at least 8th level to select this ability.
Shroud of Spirits (Su): The dread necromancer gains a +1 deflection bonus to her AC for every 4 levels she has (+1 at 4th, +2 at 8th, etc.).
Telekinesis (Sp): The dread necromancer can use telekinesis as a standard action once every 1d4 rounds. The dread necromancer must be at least 12th level to select this ability.
The Lichdom Dread Legacy abilities are as follows:
Bony Armor (Ex): The dread necromancer gains a +1 natural armor bonus. This bonus increases by +1 at 8th level and every 4 levels thereafter.
Devour Magic (Su): The dread necromancer gains the ability to deliver a targeted greater dispel magic with her touch. She gains 5 temporary hit points for each spell level dispelled by this touch. For example, if she successfully dispels a wall of ice, she gains 20
temporary hit points. These temporary hit points fade after 1 minute and do not stack with other temporary hit points. If she devours a new spell, she can replace the old temporary hit points with the ones gained from the more recent spell, thus resetting the duration. She cannot devour her own spells. The dread necromancer can use this ability a number of times per day equal to half her level. The dread necromancer must have the Magic of the Grave ability and be at least 12th level before selecting this ability.
Fear Aura (Su): Creatures of less than 5 HD in a 60-foot radius that look at the dread necromancer must succeed on a Will save or become frightened. Creatures with 5 HD or more must succeed at a Will save or be shaken for a number of rounds equal to the dread necromancer's level. A creature that successfully saves cannot be affected again by the dread necromancer’s fear aura for 24 hours. This is a mind-affecting fear effect. The dread necromancer must be at least 8th level to select this ability.
Inevitable Magic (Ex): The dread necromancer adds her Charisma modifier to caster level checks to overcome spell resistance. The dread necromancer may roll twice on caster level checks and choose the higher result. The dread necromancer must be at least 12th level and have the Magic of the Grave ability before selecting this ability
Magic of the Grave (Ex): The dread necromancer selects one of the following spell lists: cleric/oracle, druid, sorcerer/wizard, or witch. The dread necromancer can take 10 on Use Magic Device skill checks when using an item of the selected spell list. The dread necromancer may select this Dread Legacy multiple times; each time it applies to a different spell list.
Magician of the Grave (Ex): The dread necromancer selects a number of spells equal to her Charisma modifier from the spell list she selected for her Magic of the Grave ability and adds them to her spell list. These spells are added to her spell list at the same level as they appear on their original spell list; the dread necromancer may select spells of a higher level than she can cast, but does not gain the ability to cast them until she is high enough level to do so. This Dread Legacy may be selected multiple times; each time it applies to different spells. The dread necromancer must be at least 8th level and have the Magic of the Grave ability before selecting this ability.
Paralyzing Touch (Su): The dread necromancer gains a touch attack that paralyzes any living creature she hits for 1 hour per level unless it makes a successful Fortitude save. Remove paralysis or any spell that can remove a curse can free the victim (see the bestow curse spell description, with a DC equal to the dread necromancer's save DC). The effect cannot be dispelled. Anyone paralyzed by the dread necromancer seems dead, though a DC 20 Perception check or a DC 15 Heal check reveals that the victim is still alive. The dread necromancer can use this ability a number of times per day equal to half her level. The dread necromancer must be at least 12th level to select this ability.
Storm’s Embrace (Ex): The dread necromancer gains electricity resistance 5. At 8th level, this improves to electricity resistance 10. At 12th level, this becomes electricity resistance 20. At 16th level, it becomes electricity resistance 30.
Unbreakable Bones (Ex): The dread necromancer gains DR 2/bludgeoning. At 8th level, this improves to DR 5/bludgeoning. At 12th level, this improves to DR 5/bludgeoning and magic. At 16th level, this improves to DR 10/bludgeoning and magic.
Winter’s Embrace (Ex): The dread necromancer gains cold resistance 5. At 8th level, this improves to cold resistance 10. At 12th level, this becomes cold resistance 20. At 16th level, it becomes cold resistance 30.
The Vampiric Dread Legacy abilities are as follows:
Aegis of the Blood (Ex): The dread necromancer gains DR 2/magic. At 8th level, this improves to DR 5/magic. At 12th level, this improves to DR 5/magic and silver. At 16th level, this improves to DR 10/magic and silver.
Armor of the Blood (Ex): The dread necromancer gains a +1 natural armor bonus. This bonus increases by +1 at 8th level and every 4 levels thereafter.
Bat Swarm (Su): When the dread necromancer uses this ability, she becomes a swarm of Diminutive, bat-like shadows that fills two 10-foot squares (or eight contiguous 5-foot squares, shapeable as she desires). The dread necromancer can remain in this form for a number of hours per day equal to half her class level; these hours do not need to be consecutive, but they must be used in 1 hour increments. In this swarm-like form, she gains the following characteristics and traits.
—Abilities: Her Strength score drops to 1, but her Dexterity score increases by 6.
—Armor Class: She loses any natural armor or armor bonuses to Armor Class. She gains a +4 size bonus to AC, and a deflection bonus to AC equal to her Charisma modifier.
—Movement: She gains a fly speed of 40 feet with perfect maneuverability. She can pass through openings a Diminutive creature could pass through.
—Swarm Traits: She is not subject to critical hits or flanking, and she is immune to weapon damage. She cannot be tripped, grappled, or bull rushed, and she cannot grapple an opponent. She is immune to any spell or effect that targets a specific number
of creatures, except for mind-affecting spells and abilities. She takes half again as much damage (+50%) from spells or effects that affect an area. Unlike other swarms of Diminutive creatures, she is not vulnerable to wind effects. If reduced to 0 hit points
or less, or rendered unconscious by non-lethal damage, she instantly returns to her normal form in a square of her choice that was formerly covered by the swarm.
—Swarm Attack: She gains a swarm attack that deals 4d6 points of damage to any creature whose space she occupies at the end of her turn. Her swarm attack strikes as a silver magic weapon.
—Distraction: Any living creature vulnerable to her swarm attack that begins its turn in a square occupied by her swarm must make a Fortitude save or be nauseated for 1 round.
Spellcasting or concentrating on spells within the area of her swarm requires a Concentration check (DC 20 + spell level).
—Possessions: All of her worn or carried equipment and items become nonfunctional, absorbed into her new form.
She can take only move actions while under the effect of bat swarm. She may return to her normal form as a move action. The dread necromancer must have the Mist of the Vampire ability and be at least 16th level to select this ability.
Blood Drain (Su): The dread necromancer can suck blood from a grappled opponent; if the dread necromancer establishes or maintains a pin, she drains blood, dealing 1d4 points of Constitution damage. The dread necromancer heals 5 hit points or gains 5 temporary hit points for 1 hour (up to a maximum number of temporary hit points equal to its full normal hit points) each round she drains blood. The dread necromancer must be at least 8th level and have the Embrace of the Vampire ability to select this ability.
Charming Gaze (Su): The dread necromancer can entice or seduce a humanoid opponent as a standard action. Anyone the dread necromancer targets must succeed on a Will save or fall instantly under the vampire's influence, as though by a charm person spell. The ability has a range of 30 feet. The dread necromancer can use this ability a number of times per day equal to her level, but can only maintain a number of charmed humanoids equal to her Charisma modifier.
Children of the Night (Su): Once per day, a dread necromancer can call forth 1d6+1 rat swarms, 1d4+1 bat swarms, or 2d6 wolves as a standard action. These creatures arrive in 2d6 rounds and serve the dread necromancer for up to 1 hour.
Dominate (Su): The dread necromancer can crush a humanoid opponent's will as a standard action. Anyone the dread necromancer targets must succeed on a Will save or fall instantly under the vampire's influence, as though by a dominate person spell. The ability has a range of 30 feet. The dread necromancer can use this ability a number of times per day equal to half her class level, but can only maintain a number of charmed humanoids equal to her Charisma modifier. The dread necromancer must be at least 12th level and have the Charming Gaze ability before selecting this ability.
Dominate Monster (Su): The dread necromancer can crush an opponent's will as a standard action. Anyone the dread necromancer targets must succeed on a Will save or fall instantly under the vampire's influence, as though by a dominate monster spell. The ability has a range of 30 feet. The dread necromancer can use this ability a number of times per day equal to half her class level, but can only maintain a number of dominated creatures equal to her Charisma modifier. The dread necromancer must be at least 16th level and have the Charming Gaze and Dominate abilities before selecting this ability.
Embrace of the Vampire (Ex): The dread vampire gains a slam attack for 1d6 points of damage (1d4 if she is Small). She may initiate a grapple check against a creature her size or smaller she slams as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity, using her caster level + Charisma modifier in place of her normal CMB for this grapple check.
Energy Drain (Su): Anyone hit by the dread necromancer’s slam (or other natural weapon) gains two negative levels. This ability only triggers once per round, regardless of the number of attacks a dread necromancer makes. The dread necromancer must be at least 12th level and have the Embrace of the Vampire ability before selecting this ability.
Heart of Blood (Su): The dread necromancer gains fast healing 1 whenever her hit point total falls below half her normal maximum. This improves to fast healing 2 at 8th level, fast healing 3 at 12th level, and fast healing 4 at 16th level.
Mist of the Vampire (Su): The dread necromancer gains the ability to assume gaseous form as an immediate action, and return to her normal form as a move action. The dread necromancer can remain in gaseous form for a number of minutes per day equal to her level; these minutes do not need to be consecutive, but must be used in 1 minute increments. The dread necromancer must be at least 8th level to select this ability.
Spider Climb (Su): The dread necromancer can use spider climb at will, with a climb speed equal to her base land speed.
Stalker of the Winter’s Storm (Ex): The dread necromancer gains cold resistance 10 and electricity resistance 10.
Vampire Hunter (Ex): When wielding a wooden stake, the dread necromancer increases its base damage by 1 size category, grants the wooden stake the undead bane special weapon property, overcomes any damage reduction a vampire may have, and increases its threat range to 18-20/x3 against vampires. The dread necromancer can perform a coup de grace against a vampire as a standard action.
Improved Dread Powers (Ex, Sp, or Su): Beginning at 8th level, the dread necromancer may select one of the following improved dread powers in place of a regular dread power.
Advanced Minion (Su): The dread necromancer adds the advanced template to her guardian spirit.
Giant Minion (Su): The dread necromancer adds the Giant template to her guardian spirit.
Improved Channeling (Su): When the dread necromancer channels energy, the size of her channel energy dice increases from d6s to d8s.
Improved Dread Aura (Su): As a swift action, a dread necromancer can radiate an aura of fear that targets all enemies within 10 feet of her. Enemies in the area must succeed on a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 her class level + her Cha modifier) or become frightened until they are no longer adjacent to the dread necromancer, and for 1d6 rounds thereafter. A creature that successfully saves is still shaken for 1 round. A creature who successfully saves cannot be affected by that dread necromancer’s fear aura for 24 hours. The dread necromancer must have Dread Aura dread power before selecting this improved dread power.
Improved Summon Spirits of the Damned (Ex): The dread necromancer adds the following spells to her list of spells known; she must still be of the appropriate level to cast the spell: dimensional anchor, greater planar binding, lesser planar binding, magic circle against chaos/evil/good/law, planar binding, protection from chaos/evil/good/law.
Improved Undead Physique (Ex): The dread necromancer may apply her Charisma modifier in place of her Constitution modifier when affecting her hit point total and Fortitude saves.
Medium Armored Casting (Ex): The dread necromancer gains Medium Armor Proficiency as a bonus feat and may cast arcane spells from the dread necromancer spell list without suffering from Arcane Spell Failure.
Medium Fortification: A dread necromancer gains 50% resistance to critical hits; this is the equivalent of the medium fortification armor special ability. The dread necromancer must have the Light Fortification dread power before selecting this improved dread power.
Negative Energy Resistance: a dread necromancer gains a +4 bonus on saving throws made to resist negative energy effects, including energy drain, some ability drain, and inflict spells.
Summon Shadow (Su): The dread necromancer can choose to replace his guardian spirit skeleton or zombie with a shadow, an undead shade. Unlike a normal shadow, this shadow's alignment matches that of the dread necromancer, and the creature cannot create spawn. The summoned shadow receives a +4 bonus on Will saves made to halve the damage from positive channeled energy and the shadow cannot be turned or commanded. This shadow serves as a companion to the dread necromancer and can communicate intelligibly with the dread necromancer. This shadow has a number of hit points equal to half the dread necromancer’s total. The shadow uses the dread necromancer's base attack bonus and base save bonuses.
Undead Mastery: All undead creatures created by the dread necromancer gain a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength and Dexterity and 2 additional hit points per Hit Die. In addition, when a dread necromancer uses the animate dead spell to create undead, she can control 4 + her Charisma bonus HD worth of undead creatures per class level (rather than the 4 HD per level normally granted by the spell). Similarly, when a dread necromancer casts the control undead spell, the spell targets up to (2 + her Cha bonus) HD/level of undead creatures, rather than the 2 HD/level normally granted by the spell.
Venomous Touch (Su): Once per day a dread necromancer can use her charnel
touch to inflict poison on a creature she touches. This ability works like the poison spell, unless the target makes a successful Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 her class level + her Cha
modifier). Activating this class feature is a swift action. The effect lasts until the dread necromancer makes a successful charnel touch attack. The spectral hand spell enables a dread necromancer to deliver a venomous touch attack from a distance. At 12th level, the dread necromancer can use this ability twice per day. At 16th level, she can use this ability three times per day. The dread necromancer must have the Scabrous Touch dread power before selecting this dread power.
Greater Dread Powers (Ex, Sp, or Su): Beginning at 14th level, the dread necromancer may select one of the following greater dread powers in place of a regular dread power.
Animated Slaughter (Su): Whenever the dread necromancer slays a living creature with a spell from the necromancy school, it rises up as a skeleton or zombie (dread necromancer’s choice) for a number of rounds equal to the level of the spell that killed the living creature.
Enervating Touch (Su): The dread necromancer gains the ability to bestow negative
levels when she uses her charnel touch attack. Each day, she can bestow a total number of negative levels equal to her class level, but no more than two negative levels with a single touch. The saving throw to remove the negative levels has a DC of 10 + 1/2 her class level + her Charisma modifier. Activating this class feature is a swift action. The effect
lasts until she makes a successful charnel touch attack. A dread necromancer can use the spectral hand spell to deliver this attack from a distance. The dread necromancer must have the Scabrous Touch and Venomous Touch dread powers before selecting this greater dread power.
Greater Channeling (Su): When the dread necromancer channels energy, the size of her channel energy dice increases from d8s to d10s. The dread necromancer must have the Improved Channeling dread power before selecting this dread power.
Greater Dread Aura (Su): As a swift action, a dread necromancer can radiate an aura of fear that targets all enemies within 20 feet of her. Enemies in the area must succeed on a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 her class level + her Cha modifier) or become panicked until they are no longer adjacent to the dread necromancer, and for 2d6 rounds thereafter. A creature that successfully saves is still shaken for 1 round. A creature who successfully saves cannot be affected by that dread necromancer’s dread aura for 24 hours. The dread necromancer must have the Dread Aura and Improved Dread Aura dread powers before selecting this greater dread power.
Greater Undead Mastery: All undead creatures created by the dread necromancer gain a +6 enhancement bonus to Strength and Dexterity and 3 additional hit points per Hit Die. In addition, when a dread necromancer uses the animate dead spell to create undead, she can control 6 + her Charisma bonus HD worth of undead creatures per class level (rather than the 4 HD per level normally granted by the spell). Similarly, when a dread necromancer casts the control undead spell, the spell targets up to (4 + her Cha bonus) HD/level of undead creatures, rather than the 2 HD/level normally granted by the spell. The dread necromancer must have the Undead Mastery dread power before selecting this greater dread power.
Greater Undead Physique (Ex): The dread necromancer does not need to breathe, eat, or sleep. She must still rest 8 hours to regain her spells. The dread necromancer must have Undead Physique and Improved Undead Physique dread powers before selecting this greater dread power.
Heavy Armored Casting (Ex): The dread necromancer gains Heavy Armor Proficiency as a bonus feat and may cast arcane spells from the dread necromancer spell list without suffering from Arcane Spell Failure. The dread necromancer must have the Medium Armored Casting dread power before selecting this greater dread power.
Heavy Fortification: A dread necromancer gains 75% resistance to critical hits; this is the equivalent of the heavy fortification armor special ability. The dread necromancer must have the Light Fortification and Medium Fortification dread powers before selecting this greater dread power.
Ultimate Dread Power: At 20th level, the dread necromancer gains one of the following ultimate powers.
Army of the Dead (Sp): Once per month, the dread necromancer can animate all corpses in a 1 mile radius. The dread necromancer can control these undead for a number of days equal to half her Charisma modifier.
Heart of Darkness (Sp): Once per day, the dread necromancer can summon an orb of negative energy as a standard action. This effect is similar to the orb of the void spell, except it causes 2d4 negative levels per hit.
Oblivion (Sp): Once per day, the dread necromancer can destroy the soul of a dead creature that she touches; the dead body is allowed a Will save to avoid this fate. A creature with a destroyed soul cannot be brought back from the dead by any means other than the direct intervention of a deity.
Positive Energy Resistance (Ex): The dread necromancer gains positive energy resistance 30.
Rot (Su): Once per day, the dread necromancer can make a touch attack that does 1d6 points of Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution drain for a number of rounds equal to the dread necromancer’s Charisma modifier. After the initial round, the target is allowed a Fortitude save each round to prevent further damage.
Ultimate Channeling (Su): When the dread necromancer channels energy, the size of her channel energy dice increases from d10s to d12s. Alternatively, she can choose to roll 20d6 when she channels energy. The dread necromancer must have the Improved Channeling and Greater Channeling dread powers before selecting this dread power.
Ultimate Undead Mastery (Su): All undead creatures created by the dread necromancer gain a +8 enhancement bonus to Strength and Dexterity and 4 additional hit points per Hit Die and maximum hit points. In addition, when a dread necromancer uses the animate dead spell to create undead, she can control 8 + her Charisma bonus HD worth of undead creatures per class level (rather than the 4 HD per level normally granted by the spell). Similarly, when a dread necromancer casts the control undead spell, the spell targets up to (6 + her Cha bonus) HD/level of undead creatures, rather than the 2 HD/level normally granted by the spell. The dread necromancer must have the Undead Mastery and Greater Undead Mastery dread powers before selecting this ultimate dread power.
Vampiric Drain (Su): Once per day, the dread necromancer can make a touch attack that does 2d6 points of ability drain; the dread necromancer chooses which kind of ability drain at the time she uses this ability. The target gets a Fortitude save for half damage. The dread necromancer adds the amount of the ability drained from her target to her own ability score; this temporary increase to her ability score lasts for 1 hour.
Undead Apotheosis (Ex): At 20th level, the dread necromancer achieves the pinnacle of her power. She becomes undead, taking on the form of a ghost, lich, or vampire, as determined by her undead legacy. She applies the template named for her undead scion: ghost, lich, or vampire.
DREAD NECROMANCER’S SPELL LIST
0 Level: arcane mark, bleed, detect magic, detect poison, disrupt undead, ghost sound, read magic, touch of fatigue
1st Level: Bane, cause fear, chill touch, corrosive touch, detect undead, doom, hide from undead, inflict light wounds, ray of enfeeblement, ray of sickening, touch of gracelessness, undetectable alignment
2nd Level: Blindness/deafness, command undead, create treasure map, darkness, death knell, dust of twilight, false life, frigid touch, gentle repose, ghostly disguise, ghoul touch, inflict moderate wounds, pernicious poison, scare, spectral hand, summon swarm,
3rd Level: Animate dead, contagion, crushing despair, death ward, halt undead, inflict serious wounds, poison, ray of exhaustion, speak with dead, stinking cloud, undead anatomy I, vampiric touch
4th Level: bestow curse, black tentacles, death ward, dispel magic, enervation, greater false life, fear, fleshworm infestation, giant vermin, inflict critical wounds, phantasmal killer, shadow form, touch of slime
5th Level: Baleful polymorph, blight, cloudkill, insect plague, magic jar, mass inflict light wounds, nightmare, slay living, suffocation, undead anatomy II, undeath to death, unhallow, waves of fatigue
6th Level: Acid fog, circle of death, greater contagion, create undead, eyebite, geas/quest, harm, mass inflict moderate wounds, major curse, plague storm, temporary resurrection, undead anatomy III, unwilling shield, waves of exhaustion
7th Level: Control undead, destruction, expend, finger of death, mass inflict serious wounds, phantasmal revenge, song of discord,
8th Level: Clone, create greater undead, frightful aspect, horrid wilting, mass inflict critical wounds, orb of the void, symbol of death, trap the soul, undead anatomy IV
9th Level: Cursed earth, energy drain, power word kill, mass suffocation, soul bind, wail of the banshee, weird
I think SmiloDan got pretty close to a perfect conversion there, though some of the items look like they could use some power tweaks. I'm not familiar with all of the abilities that are offered to characters in PF, but some of that stuff looks a bit over the top.
Yeah, some of this is a bit more powerful than the norm, but it is also a class that is a lot more focused than most Pathfinder classes, so it lacks some versatility. It still has plenty of options with its area of focus, however.
One concern I have is that they get about 2 class features per level, when most classes only get one. AND it's a full caster.
I'm not too concerned, though, since this would most likely be an NPC, and NPCs usually need all the help they can against a group of 3 or 5 or 7 PCs!!!
If you wanted to keep the flavor but bring it more in line with Paizo, I'd suggest modeling it on the summoner. 3/4 BAB and 6 spell levels, but their higher level spells include some 7+ level spells from the wizard or cleric lists.
I'm liking this retool the summoner class thing. They have VERY strange class features, though.
Yeah, some of this is a bit more powerful than the norm, but it is also a class that is a lot more focused than most Pathfinder classes
My original conversion was much more akin to this, but my party cried out imbalance. It's at the point where I don't even want to play a dread necromancer anymore because they keep complaining.
All in all, the dread necromancer should be about controlling undead. Lots of undead.
I used to have an Animator class based on Anita Blake from those Mary Sue-ish Vampire Executioner novels by Laurell K. Hamilton.
It was 3/4 BAB, Good Fort and Will, 1d8 HD, 4 or 6 skill points a level, 6 level DIVINE caster, with emphasis on Channel Energy and combating and/or controlling undead.
But this was way back in 3.0.
I may eventually re-tool it.
I might also add some more options to the dread necromancer's dread powers. I'm thinking bard-like buffs that only affect undead, and some that only affect mindless undead, so your horde of 1 HD skeletons are still a threat at level 5 or 10 or 15.
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DREAD NECROMANCER
BAB: +1/2
Good Saves: Will
Hit Dice: 1d6Class Skills: Bluff, Craft, Disguise, Heal, Intimidate, Knowledge arcana, Knowledge history, Knowledge planes, Knowledge religion, Linguistics, Profession, Ride, Spellcraft, Stealth, Use Magic Device.
Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Intelligence modifier
Dread Necromancers are proficient in all simple weapons and 1 martial weapon. The dread necromancer selects the martial weapon at 1st level and cannot change this selection. Dread Necromancers are proficient in all light armor, but not shields. Dread Necromancers do not suffer the normal arcane spell failure for casting spells from the dread necromancer spell list while wearing light armor.
LEVEL ABILITY
1. Cantrips, Channel Energy 1d6, Charnel Touch, Detect Undead, Dread Bond
2. Bonus Feat, Dread Power, Dread Scion
3. Advanced Learning 1,Channel Energy 2d6
4. Dread Legacy, Dread Power
5. Advanced Learning 2, Channel Energy 3d6
6. Bonus Feat, Dread Power
7. Advanced Learning 3, Channel Energy 4d6
8. Dread Legacy, Dread Power, Improved Dread Powers
9. Advanced Learning 4, Channel Energy 5d6
10. Bonus Feat, Dread Power
11. Advanced Learning 5, Channel Energy 6d6
12. Dread Legacy, Dread Power
13. Advanced Learning 6, Channel Energy 7d6
14. Bonus Feat, Dread Power, Greater Dread Powers
15. Advanced Learning 7, Channel Energy 8d6
16. Dread Legacy, Dread Power
17. Advanced Learning 8, Channel Energy 9d6
18. Bonus Feat, Dread Power
19. Advanced Learning 9, Channel Energy 10d6
20. Dread Power, Ultimate Dread Power, Undead ApotheosisSpellcasting: A dread necromancer casts arcane spells, which are drawn from the dread necromancer’s spell list (see the appendix at the end). Like a sorcerer, she can cast any spell she knows without preparing it ahead of time. When a dread necromancer gains access to a new level of spells, she automatically knows all the spells for that level given on the dread necromancer’s spell list. Dread necromancers also have...
Additional Dread Powers:
Dread Army (Su): The dread necromancer can spend 1 daily use of her channel energy ability and grant all mindless undead within the area of effect a +1 profane bonus to attack and damage rolls per die of her channel energy ability. Non-mindless undead gain half this bonus (minimum +1). The bonus persists for 1 minute per level of the dread necromancer.
Dread Celerity (Su): The dread necromancer can spend 1 daily use of her channel energy ability and grant all mindless undead within the area of effect a +1 profane bonus to initiative rolls and +5 feet of speed per die of her channel energy ability. Non-mindless undead gain half this bonus (minimum +1 and +5 feet of speed). The bonus persists for 1 minute per level of the dread necromancer.
Dread Durability (Su): The dread necromancer can spend 1 daily use of her channel energy ability and grant all mindless undead within the area of effect DR 1/- per die of her channel energy ability. Non-mindless undead gain half this bonus (minimum +1). The bonus persists for 1 minute per level of the dread necromancer.
Dread Protection (Su): The dread necromancer can spend 1 daily use of her channel energy ability and grant all mindless undead within the area of effect a +1 profane bonus to attack and damage rolls per die of her channel energy ability. Non-mindless undead gain half this bonus (minimum +1). The bonus persists for 1 minute per level of the dread necromancer.
Dread Purity (Su): The dread necromancer can spend 1 daily use of her channel energy ability and grant all mindless undead within the area of effect a +1 profane bonus to AC per die of her channel energy ability. Non-mindless undead gain half this bonus (minimum +1). The bonus persists for 1 minute per level of the dread necromancer.
Dread Resistance (Su): The dread necromancer can spend 1 daily use of her channel energy ability and grant all mindless undead within the area of effect energy resistance 5 against one of the following energy types per die of her channel energy ability: acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic. Non-mindless undead gain half this bonus (minimum energy resistance 5). The bonus persists for 1 minute per level of the dread necromancer.
Dread Toughness (Su): The dread necromancer can spend 1 daily use of her channel energy ability and grant all mindless undead within the area of temporary hit points equal to the results of her channel energy ability. Non-mindless undead gain half this bonus (minimum +1d6). The bonus persists for 1 minute per level of the dread necromancer.
Dread Vigor (Su): The dread necromancer can spend 1 daily use of her channel energy ability and grant all mindless undead within the area of effect a Fast Healing 1 per die of her channel energy ability. Non-mindless undead gain half this bonus (minimum +1). The bonus persists for 1 minute per level of the dread necromancer.
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WIth your GM and the other players complaining that the Dread necromancer is over powered, perhaps you might want to try something a little closer to home.
Perhaps a wizard with the school speciality necromancy might fit the bill.
Necromancy School
The dread and feared necromancer commands undead and uses the foul power of unlife against his enemies.
"Power over Undead (Su): You receive Command Undead or Turn Undead as a bonus feat. You can channel energy a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier, but only to use the selected feat. You can take other feats to add to this ability, such as Extra Channel and Improved Channel, but not feats that alter this ability, such as Elemental Channel and Alignment Channel. The DC to save against these feats is equal to 10 + 1/2 your wizard level + your Charisma modifier. At 20th level, undead cannot add their channel resistance to the save against this ability.
Grave Touch (Sp): As a standard action, you can make a melee touch attack that causes a living creature to become shaken for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your wizard level (minimum 1). If you touch a shaken creature with this ability, it becomes frightened for 1 round if it has fewer Hit Dice than your wizard level. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.
Life Sight (Su): At 8th level, you gain blindsight to a range of 10 feet for a number of rounds per day equal to your wizard level. This ability only allows you to detect living creatures and undead creatures. This sight also tells you whether a creature is living or undead. Constructs and other creatures that are neither living nor undead cannot be seen with this ability. The range of this ability increases by 10 feet at 12th level, and by an additional 10 feet for every four levels beyond 12th. These rounds do not need to be consecutive."
The simple advantage of going this route would be that it is in the Core Rule book, and the GM and other players might be much more accepting of it.
I hope this helps.
i've a question... the topic has "fixed" in the title... so smilodan's Dread is balanced, or only Elyas solution is good?
Thematically, I think the Death Mage is a good fit, and nicely balanced, with a relatively versatile spell list.
I know some for their spells appeared more than once on the class list.. I am assuming those were typos. They also should have had 3/4 BAB in my opinion. I gave it to them for my games, and they were playable, but I was a different GM then, than I am now. I should probably look over it again when I get time and do my own fix.
thank you wraith!
@Rj grady: Death Mage is pretty cool class
is there something maybe in pathfinder that could give me animate dead as spell-like ability?
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Nothing I know of gives animate dead as an SLA most because it cost money. If it is possible then it is a PrC or a feat tree. You are likely better off just paying for it.
With that said here is my Dread Necro writeup:
I am only posting what I would change. Other than that go by the official writeup.
[spoiler]BAB 3/4 instead of 1/2
Charnel Touch: 1d8 at first level, and increase by 1d8 at every odd level. Can be used as swift action if used to heal the DreadNecromancer. Will save to resist. The save is CHA based.
This ability is usable a number of time per day equal to 3+Cha modifier.
Rebuke Undead: The Dread necromancer gains the command undead and turn undead feats as bonus feats. Dread Necromancers can not channel they but the radius of the effect is still 30 feet with the Dread Necromancer at the center of the affect.
Negative Energy Burst: This is a special version of channel energy and therefore the dread necromancer can use it as a prereq in whenever channel energy is called for. The Dread Necromancer can emits a burst of negative energy equal to 1d4 per class level. A successful Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 her class level + Cha modifi er) reduces damage by half. Undead creatures within this burst are healed the same amount of hit points as the damage she deals to living creatures. This ability may be used a number of times per day equal to 3 + cha modifier.
Note: This ability can never be use to emit positive energy even if a feat or class feature from another source would normally allow for channel energy to do so.
Advanced Learning (Ex): A dread necromancer can add a new spell to her list, representing the result of personal study and experimentation.Knowing that some creatures are highly resistant to the art of necromancy, and the foolishness of only relying on one school of magic the Dread Necromancer occasionally learns other spells to augment her repertoire.
At 2nd level and every even level thereafter the dread necromancer may choose a spell from the wizard/sorcerer or cleric list and of a
level no higher than that of the highest-level spell the dread
necromancer already knows. Once a new spell is selected, it is added to that dread necromancer’s spell list and can be cast just like any other spell she knows.
DREAD NECROMANCER SPELL LIST
I would allow them to know all necromancy spells on the cleric and wizard/sorcerer list upon leveling up that are available. If a spell is on both list but at different levels then I would say they gain access at the lower level. They are already restricted to necromancy magic for the most part so this should not unbalance anything.
Favored Class points:
Humans (1/2): The character may add a new spell to her spell list just as if she had used Advanced Learning.
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Archetype: (I could not think of a decent name)
Undead Companion: At 4th level the dread necromancer gains an animal companion from the druid list, that has the zombie template applied. However the animal is allowed to retain its intelligence and gain skill points as normal. In addition, if the dread necromancer chooses the creature may still be affect by spells that normally only target animals.
The Dread Necromancer's effective druid level is equal to her Dread Necromancer level – 3.
At 11th level the Dread Necromancer's effective druid level becomes equal to her Dread Necromancer level.
This ability replaces the Fear Aura and Summon Familiar abilities.
Advanced Knowledge: This ability is altered so that the Dread Necromancer may select spells from the druid list instead of the cleric list. To be clear the cleric's spell list is now off limits.
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thank you so much!
someone have something to say about? Just want it really balanced
wraithstrike i think yours is the most balanced.. but looking at Smilodan's, i feel more flavour.. so is there a way to keep your balanced version improving with the method of choice with Ghost, Vampire or Lich?
Or maybe become a vampire or ghost is too weak compared to Lich?
Ghost would be much more difficult to deal with since most creatures cant deal with incorporeal creatures, but at the same time ghost are supposed to be tied to a certain location and should not be adventuring, so the ghost should not be allowed on both accounts.
The vampire is restricted to night travel for the most part. There is a spell that can get past it, but one dispel and you are dead.
For those reasons I would avoid both of those.
Now if you just get the legacies without becoming the creature that is different.
With regard to the following feature from SmiloDan I think it bypasses SR to easily. I only skimmed it, but I did not read the entire list in detail. I do like the idea behind how he wrote it up though. Later on I will go over his list and give a detail opinion on it. Personally I still think my version is a lacking in power, but not by a lot. I would remove Dan's class abilities except for the legacies.
"Inevitable Magic (Ex): The dread necromancer adds her Charisma modifier to caster level checks to overcome spell resistance. The dread necromancer may roll twice on caster level checks and choose the higher result. The dread necromancer must be at least 12th level and have the Magic of the Grave ability before selecting this ability"
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I was going to do the channel energy thing, but I did not want to copy the cleric, and by using the 3.5 class features with slight modifications I can stay true to the class.
As for flavor, I always felt like flavor is with a character more than it is with a class. You can always change the flavor. That is why I only offered mechanics.
For the ghost legacy I would change "Incorporeal Moment" so the character is subject to the same rules as other incorporeal creatures and is not only fully affected by force affects.
PS: I don't really like the lich legacy, but I can see the vampire and ghost legacies as an archetype. Without going into detail anything the legacies give that grants natural armor and DR will replace anything the normal version has that grants DR and natural armor.
PS2: I was bouncing around while writing this so if something is not clear just let me know and I will explain it again.
so you mean "take the legacy as archetypes", am i right?
So i can do it only replacing DR and natural armor?
so you mean "take the legacy as archetypes", am i right?
So i can do it only replacing DR and natural armor?
Yes the legacies would be archetypes.
Any legacy ability that grants DR or natural armor you get automatically at the same level the normal DreadNecromancer class would get it.Going back to that ability that allows you to add cha mod to overcome SR AND roll twice I would either not allow it, or make it work like I have it below.
Inevitable Magic (Ex): The dread necromancer adds her Charisma modifier to caster level checks to overcome spell resistance. This ability may be used an equal number of times per day equal to 1/2 cha modifier. The dread necromancer must be at least 9th level before selecting this ability.
Understand...
but for the legacies you'll follow Smilodan's (except for DR or nat armor)??
Understand...
but for the legacies you'll follow Smilodan's (except for DR or nat armor)??
Yes, and I would alter that one ability I mentioned above. It is just too good as written.
Edit: The lich is the default version so his lich version would not be used.
okk... other powers allowed (except the mentioned above and the thing DR/nat armor) by Smilodan's are ok?
I also want there to be a mummy legacy or archetype. :-)
okk... other powers allowed (except the mentioned above and the thing DR/nat armor) by Smilodan's are ok?
yeah
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Just one thing: Why, oh why, is the magic still based on Charisma and not Intelligence? I've posted about this elsewhere; I view the headlong rush to making Charisma the rule rather than the exception, and Intelligence vice versa, to the ability governing arcane magic, to be one of the biggest mistakes of the 3rd Edition era - it makes sense for some classes (like Bards, Pathfinder's Summoners, and the 3.5 Tome of Magic's Binders - but those aren't arcane magicians anyways), but otherwise, I'd really like to see a return to most forms of arcane magic being Intelligence-based, this class certainly included.
I've found a lot of people suggesting that the dread necromancer get a spell-list with more utility spells. I would argue heavily against this. What made the warmage, dread necromancer, and beguiler so great design wise is that their spell lists were limited enough to avoid making other party members obsolete. You just need to bring all spellcasters down to their level.
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Just one thing: Why, oh why, is the magic still based on Charisma and not Intelligence? I've posted about this elsewhere; I view the headlong rush to making Charisma the rule rather than the exception, and Intelligence vice versa, to the ability governing arcane magic, to be one of the biggest mistakes of the 3rd Edition era - it makes sense for some classes (like Bards, Pathfinder's Summoners, and the 3.5 Tome of Magic's Binders - but those aren't arcane magicians anyways), but otherwise, I'd really like to see a return to most forms of arcane magic being Intelligence-based, this class certainly included.
I think Intelligence is used mostly for arcane casters that prepare their spells (magus, witch, wizard), and Charisma is used for spontaneous casters (bard, sorcerer, summoner). And since the dread necromancer is kind of the necromancy version of the summoner, it makes sense to use Charisma. Also, a lot of undead abilities are based off of Charisma (if only because they lack a Consititution score!), so there is that.
I've found a lot of people suggesting that the dread necromancer get a spell-list with more utility spells. I would argue heavily against this. What made the warmage, dread necromancer, and beguiler so great design wise is that their spell lists were limited enough to avoid making other party members obsolete. You just need to bring all spellcasters down to their level.
They do need more utility. They should not be on par with other casters for utility, but a high fort save and death ward makes the class a lot less useful. The warmage was good enough at damage the energy resistance did not matter as much, and the beguiler also needs more things. Illusions dont work nearly as well at higher levels.
Could you please take a look at this?
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qxkb?Necromancer
Hi all,
I really do not understand why you all make these big changes to the base 3.5 Dread necromancer class. i made a version with almost no changes to it
https://word.office.live.com/wv/WordView.aspx?FBsrc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.faceb ook.com%2Fdownload%2Ffile_preview.php%3Fid%3D1509853695913198%26time%3D1405 519296%26metadata&access_token=100002857633253%3AAVKSUbRWEsQO-HTfw7LfF2 va1Qc_rwCJD0F8aPTHL2QdYw&title=Dread+Necromancer.docx
it won't make a clickable link but if you copy paste that to the adres bar it should open my version. hope you all like it and i'd love comments (or if the link really doesn't work please tell me)
Hi all,
I really do not understand why you all make these big changes to the base 3.5 Dread necromancer class. i made a version with almost no changes to ithttps://word.office.live.com/wv/WordView.aspx?FBsrc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.faceb ook.com%2Fdownload%2Ffile_preview.php%3Fid%3D1509853695913198%26time%3D1405 519296%26metadata&access_token=100002857633253%3AAVKSUbRWEsQO-HTfw7LfF2 va1Qc_rwCJD0F8aPTHL2QdYw&title=Dread+Necromancer.docx
it won't make a clickable link but if you copy paste that to the adres bar it should open my version. hope you all like it and i'd love comments (or if the link really doesn't work please tell me)
The link does not work at all, but when you do get it working just use the url code to make it clickable.
click on "How to format your text"
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i'll just post it here than without the Table. its basicly the same as the 3.5 table other than the specials anyway.
Class Skills:
Bluff, craft, disguise, intimidate, knowledge (arcane, religion), linguistics, profession, spellcraft, stealth, use magic devise.
Skill points: 2 + Intelligence
Hit die: d6
Class Features:
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A dread necromancer is proficient with all simple weapons and with one martial weapon of her choice. Her choice of martial weapon is made when the character takes her first level of dread necromancer and cannot be changed.
Dread necromancers are also proficient with light armor, but not with shields. The somatic components required for dread necromancer spells are simple, so members of this class can cast dread necromancer spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. She still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells derived from other classes. In addition, if a dread necromancer wears medium or heavy armor, or uses a shield, she incurs the same chance of arcane spell failure as any other arcane caster if the spell in question has a somatic component (and most do).
Spell casting: A dread necromancer casts arcane spells. Like a sorcerer, she can cast any spell she knows without preparing it ahead of time. When a dread necromancer gains access to a new level of spells, she automatically knows all the Necromancy spells for that level from the cleric and wizard spell list. Dread necromancers also have the option of adding to their existing spell list through their advanced learning ability as they increase in level (see below).
To cast a spell, a dread necromancer must have a Charisma score of 10 + the spell's level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a dread necromancer's spell is 10 + the spell's level + her Charisma modifier. Like other spell casters, a dread necromancer can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given in the Table(see above). In addition, she receives bonus spells for a high Charisma score.
Charnel Touch (Su): Negative energy flows through a dread necromancer's body, concentrating in her hands. At will, but no more than once per round, she can make a melee touch attack against a living foe that deals 1d8 points of damage, +1d8 per four class levels. This touch heals undead creatures. A dread necromancer can use the spectral hand spell to deliver this attack from a distance.
Channel Negative Energy (Su): Regardless of alignment, any Dread necromancer can release a wave of negative energy that deals damage to living creatures and heals undead creatures.
Channeling energy causes a burst that affects all creatures in a 30-foot radius centered on the dread necromancer. The amount of damage dealt or healed is equal to 1d4 points of damage plus 1d4 points of damage for every two dread necromancer levels beyond 1st (2d4 at 3rd, 3d4 at 5th, and so on). Creatures that take damage from channeled energy receive a Will save to halve the damage. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the dread necromancers level + the dread necromancer Charisma modifier. Creatures healed by channeled energy cannot exceed their maximum hit point total—all excess healing is lost. A dread necromancer may channel energy a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier. This is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. A dread necromancer can choose whether or not to include herself in this effect.
Cantrips: Dread necromancers know the following cantrips, or 0-level spells: Detect magic, Read magic and all wizard or cleric necromancy cantrips These spells are cast like any other spell, but they do not consume any slots and may be used again.
Command Undead: at 2nd level, a dread necromancer receives Command undead as a bonus feat.
Lich Body: Starting at 3nd level, a dread necromancer begins her journey into undead. The first symptom is her body's increased resilience to physical harm. She gains DR 2/bludgeoning and magic. As the dread necromancer increases in level, this DR increases in effectiveness, to DR 4 at 7th level, DR 6 at 11th level, and DR 8 at 15th level.
Advanced Learning (Ex): At 4th level, a dread necromancer can add a new spell to her list, representing the result of personal study and experimentation. The spell must be a cleric or wizard spell, and of a level no higher than that of the highest-level spell the dread necromancer already knows. Once a new spell is selected, it is added to that dread necromancer's spell list and can be cast just like any other spell she knows. If a spell is both a cleric spell and a wizard spell, use the lower of the two spell levels (when different) to determine what level the spell is for a dread necromancer. A dread necromancer gains an additional new spell at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th level.
Mental Bastion: Starting at 4th level, a dread necromancer gains a +2 bonus on saving throws made to resist sleep, stunning, paralysis, poison, or disease. This bonus increases to +4 at 14th level.
Fear Aura (Su): Beginning at 5th level, a dread necromancer radiates a 5-foot-radius fear aura as a free action. Enemies in the area must succeed on a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 her class level + her Cha modifier) or become shaken. A creature who successfully saves cannot be affected by that dread necromancer's fear aura for 24 hours.
Scabrous Touch (Su): Starting at 6th level, once per day a dread necromancer can use her charnel touch to inflict disease on a creature she touches. This ability works like the contagion spell (see page 259 of the Core Rulebook).
Activating this class feature is a swift action. The effect lasts until the dread necromancer makes a successful charnel touch attack. The spectral hand spell enables a dread necromancer to deliver a scabrous touch attack from a distance.
A dread necromancer can use this ability once per day at 6th level, twice per day at 11th level, and three times per day at 16th level.
Summon Familiar: At 7th level or anytime thereafter, a dread necromancer can obtain a familiar. The familiar she acquires is more powerful than a standard wizard's or sorcerer's familiar, but it is unequivocally evil. The player of a dread necromancer character chooses one of the following creatures: Isitoq (bestiary 4), beheaded (any) (bestiary 4), crawling hand (bestiary 2), phantom armor (hollow helm) (Pathfinder Adventure Path #47: Ashes at Dawn), shadow (lesser or rat) (Tome of Horror complete),
A dread necromancer's familiar gains the usual familiar benefits given on page 83 of the Core Rulebook, with two exceptions. Its type does not change, and it does not gain the exceptional ability to speak with other creatures of its kind. A dread necromancer's familiar can use its ability to deliver touch spells also to deliver its master's charnel touch, scabrous touch, or enervating touch attack. The master must use a standard action to imbue the touch attack into her familiar.
Undead Mastery: All undead creatures created by a dread necromancer who has reached 8th level or higher gain a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength and Dexterity and 2 additional hit points per Hit Die.
In addition, when a dread necromancer uses the animate dead spell to create undead, she can control 4 + her Charisma bonus HD worth of undead creatures per class level (rather than the 4 HD per level normally granted by the spell).
Similarly, when a dread necromancer used her Command undead feat, she can control up to (1 + her Cha bonus) HD/level of undead creatures, rather than the HD/level normally granted by the feat.
Negative Energy Resistance: Beginning at 10th level, a dread necromancer gains a +4 bonus on saving throws made to resist negative energy effects, including energy drain, some ability drain, and inflict spells.
Enervating Touch (Su): When a dread necromancer reaches 12th level, she gains the ability to bestow negative levels when she uses her charnel touch attack. Each day, she can bestow a total number of negative levels equal to one-half her class level, but no more than two negative levels with a single touch. The saving throw to remove the negative levels has a DC of 10 + 1/2 her class level + her Charisma modifier. Activating this class feature is a swift action. The effect lasts until she makes a successful charnel touch attack.
A dread necromancer can use the spectral hand spell to deliver this attack from a distance.
Beginning at 17th level, the number of negative levels a dread necromancer can bestow per day increases to equal her class level.
Craft Wondrous Item: At 18th level, the dread necromancer gains Craft Wondrous Item as a bonus feat. This helps her prepare the phylactery required to become a lich.
Lich Transformation: When a dread necromancer attains 20th level, she undergoes a hideous transformation and becomes a lich. She gains the lich template (see page 188 of the Bestiary). A dread necromancer need not pay gold to create her phylactery unless she decides to become a lich before 20th level.
oops sorry quite a bit more text than i anticipated
Kazz did you do anything to fix the spellist? The 3.5 version had a few problems.