Hi,
just looking at the cleric and noticing NO CAPSTONE ABILITY.
So 19 levels and you're pretty much peaked.
What's the best class to dip to make a cleric a combat monster?
ATM I'm thinking master of many styles monk to take dragon and crane style. I'm thinking cleric of Ragathiel for Bastard sword (so can 1h or 2h for better damage) so you can have a free hand when you want for Riposte.
Wis to AC when unarmored is nice.
Ranger. BAB, skills, a couple fun abilities.
Monk is probably a good idea, you get the most bang for your buck I think. Paladin however, also sounds kind of cool, heavy armor and martial weapons smite evil once per day and detect evil on command, not bad if you can stomach playing LG.
Hi,
just looking at the cleric and noticing NO CAPSTONE ABILITY.
So 19 levels and you're pretty much peaked.What's the best class to dip to make a cleric a combat monster?
ATM I'm thinking master of many styles monk to take dragon and crane style. I'm thinking cleric of Ragathiel for Bastard sword (so can 1h or 2h for better damage) so you can have a free hand when you want for Riposte.
Wis to AC when unarmored is nice.
With 19 levels of Cleric 1 level of anything isn't going to make a huge difference. What I would do is let the events of the campaign and the development of the character determine what to take.
One of the funnest characters I ever played (3.5) was a Wizard 4/Sorcerer 4/Cleric 1. I had just taken that 1 Cleric level as the campaign came to an end but it was for entirely in game reasons that I took it.
That tends to be the way I plan my levels. But YMMV.
I'm thinking the best 1 level generic dips are probably:
Barbarian: for the rage. This works better as a two level dip so you can get rage powers.
Monk: for the flurry of blows, assuming you can use a Temple Sword, and saving throw boost.
Master of Many Styles: for the crane style (Crane Wing specifically), and for the saving throw boost.
Oracle: there are some nice revelations worth taking as a dip. Surprising Charge as an example.
Sorcerer, Crossblooded: this works well with other spell-casters when you combine bloodlines that give bonus damage.
Fighter: for the bonus feat.
I'm thinking the best 1 level generic dips are probably:
Barbarian: for the rage. This works better as a two level dip so you can get rage powers.
Monk: for the flurry of blows, assuming you can use a Temple Sword, and saving throw boost.
Master of Many Styles: for the crane style (Crane Wing specifically), and for the saving throw boost.
Oracle: there are some nice revelations worth taking as a dip. Surprising Charge as an example.
Sorcerer, Crossblooded: this works well with other spell-casters when you combine bloodlines that give bonus damage.
Fighter: for the bonus feat.
Why temple Sword in particular?
I thought a worshipper of Rathathiel would work with crane wing well (Bastard sword can be 1 or 2 handed as needed). was going rage and archon sub domains.
Ranger. BAB, skills, a couple fun abilities.
I love doing this with clerics of specific deities, then taking FE in that deities' focus. A little BAB, skills, weapon prof, and suddenly a better way to relate to the more martial members of your flock.
Barbarian-cleric orc would come as a close second, combatwise.
I'm thinking the best 1 level generic dips are probably:
Barbarian: for the rage. This works better as a two level dip so you can get rage powers.
Monk: for the flurry of blows, assuming you can use a Temple Sword, and saving throw boost.
Master of Many Styles: for the crane style (Crane Wing specifically), and for the saving throw boost.
Oracle: there are some nice revelations worth taking as a dip. Surprising Charge as an example.
Sorcerer, Crossblooded: this works well with other spell-casters when you combine bloodlines that give bonus damage.
Fighter: for the bonus feat.
Why temple Sword in particular?
I thought a worshipper of Rathathiel would work with crane wing well (Bastard sword can be 1 or 2 handed as needed). was going rage and archon sub domains.
Because its a monk weapon and usable with flurry of blows.
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There is a feat in Complete Monk (or Combat for some of you guys :) ), that lets a Cleric with Flurry of Blows, Flurry with their Deity's Favored Weapon.
Monk, is an ok level dip, but honestly, for Clerics, 17th is the point that you don't really get anything new, not 19th.
2 or 3 levels in Ranger, Rogue, Paladin, or Fighter (and maybe Maguc, not sure), nets you a lot of bonueses, while still allowing for both Domain Powers, and 9th level spells.
For a 2 Rogue/1 Monk dip, you can cast touch spells with unarmed strikes (possibly adding Sneak Attack), and get Evasion, go from crap to decent Reflex Saves, and drop armor, (typically reducing AC, but increasing Touch/Flat-Footed significantly), and get great Fort and Will Saves, plus other little things.
Paladin lets you max the heck out of your Saves and Cha, and adds more nifty abilities for your party to use on your turn. Barbarian nets Rage, and more importantly, mobility in and out of armor. Fighter nets you proficiencies and spare Feats you are the most short on.
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4 levels Holy Vindicator are the best "1 level dip" for a cleric. You only need to invest one feat (and alignment channel (evil) is not that bad, really), get heavy armor and all martial weapons for free AND a bunch of fun and possibly powerful class abilities (+10 sacred armor bonus anyone?).
Doesn't work nearly as well if you don't use a shield, of course.
If you are willing to drop a few caster levels and your domain powers aren't heavily level-based, you could even go with 8 or even all 10 levels Vindicator. Stigmata as swift action to grant yourself +5 to attack, damage, AC, caster levels or even all saves sounds like a pretty useful ability. And by the time you get this, the bleeding damage won't hurt THAT much. At least way less than a failed save against a high level spell...
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And here I was going to suggest "Blue Cheese". :-)
Personally I don't think that 1 level dips are worth it, but if you really must then I suppose it would probably come down to a choice between fighter or barbarian depending on whether you wanted the extra feat or the extra 10 feet worth of movement. I can't see just one level worth of Barbarian rage making that much difference at high levels, but an extra 10 feet of movement can be nice tactically.
There is a feat in Complete Monk (or Combat for some of you guys :) ), that lets a Cleric with Flurry of Blows, Flurry with their Deity's Favored Weapon.
What's It called?
Flurry stacks with other classes BAB right?
So a Monk1/Cleric9/Holy Vindicator10 Flurries at what? 15/15/10/10/5/5/0?
Inquisitor. You can get the Conversion Domain and Infiltrator Archetype to have a huge boost to your diplomacy. 2nd level gives you a boost to your initiative. Plus some good spells. You get a big bonus to skills, and missile weapon proficiency.
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There is a feat in Complete Monk (or Combat for some of you guys :) ), that lets a Cleric with Flurry of Blows, Flurry with their Deity's Favored Weapon.
What's It called?
Flurry stacks with other classes BAB right?
So a Monk1/Cleric9/Holy Vindicator10 Flurries at what? 15/15/10/10/5/5/0?
The feat is in Ultimate Combat and is called Crusader's Flurry. It's good mechanically the other way (one level of cleric, multiple levels of monk) to let you flurry with a weapon you normally can't. However you only get the additional flurry attacks at the appropriate monk levels (1, 6, 11, and 16). Your example would be: 15/15/10/5/0
Actually the I'll play around with Cleric3/Monk1/Cleric8/HV10/Cleric9
the 15/15/10/5/0 attack routine appeals to me rather than Cleric10/HV10 which is 17/12/7/2. More chances to crit and the extra attack at high bonus kicks in from level 4.
Just need to pick best synergies for Monk Archetype/Cleric Archetype....
I'll think about It. I'm going for a 2 hander. Maybe makeuse of the HV Divine Wrath/Divine Retribution Powers?
I have a 10/10 build that uses a falcata to boost the DC to resist...
Any Dieties offer x3 or x4Crit weapons...
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Actually the I'll play around with Cleric3/Monk1/Cleric8/HV10/Cleric9
the 15/15/10/5/0 attack routine appeals to me rather than Cleric10/HV10 which is 17/12/7/2. More chances to crit and the extra attack at high bonus kicks in from level 4.
Just need to pick best synergies for Monk Archetype/Cleric Archetype....
I'll think about It. I'm going for a 2 hander. Maybe makeuse of the HV Divine Wrath/Divine Retribution Powers?
I have a 10/10 build that uses a falcata to boost the DC to resist...Any Dieties offer x3 or x4Crit weapons...
Up to you of course, but without knowing what you're going for I will point out the following:
-A flurrying monk only adds 1X strength to damage, even when using two hands on a weapon.-With a two-hander (and for that matter a level of monk) you're giving up the huge class feature of Vindicator's Shield.
-Your suggested progression means you won't get ANY level 9 spells.
If it's thematically good for you, go for it! If you are trying to optimize, you're probably subpar.
Couple of Questions:
1.I'd get 5 Stunning fist attempts per day. Can this be used as part of a Flurry? I hope so. If Not it could still be good on the Move +Standard Action attack when I close. I damage him, he saves or does nothing.
2.You're right that a two hander doesn't benefit me. I could However flurry With a Weapon (I'm thinking Longsword with Imodae as diety, Heroism Subdomain) and use Brass knuckles on the other hand to stunning fist.
3. Can you stunning fist with a Monk Weapon? I don't think so but just checking.
Fun favored weapons for flurries:
Shelyn- Glaive
Caiden Calien- Rapier
Erestil- Longbow
Gorum- Greatsword
I don't get into the evil ones much, but I know there is one with the scythe, and one with a light pick. Both x4 critical weapons, which is cool.
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Couple of Questions:
1.I'd get 5 Stunning fist attempts per day. Can this be used as part of a Flurry? I hope so. If Not it could still be good on the Move +Standard Action attack when I close. I damage him, he saves or does nothing.
Yes, but only once per round. It also has to be done either with an unarmed strike or a Ki Focus weapon.
2.You're right that a two hander doesn't benefit me. I could However flurry With a Weapon (I'm thinking Longsword with Imodae as diety, Heroism Subdomain) and use Brass knuckles on the other hand to stunning fist.
See point 1 as far as the brass knuckles go. The stunning fist is something you "add on" to one of your unarmed attacks which still does normal damage. Just give them a stunning elbow (or a stunning backheel or a stunning left earlobe).
3. Can you stunning fist with a Monk Weapon? I don't think so but just checking.
Again, point 1. It has to be a Ki Focus weapon.
Remember, if you only have 1 level of monk, you only get two attacks. Each attack's bonus is going to be based off of (non-monk BAB) + (monk level) -2 (pseudo TWF).
OK,
just looking at the Big Stuff.
3levels of Cleric of Imodae- Glory (Herosim), Good (Archon) domains.
1 Level Standard Monk
5 Levels Cleric
8 Levels HV
3 Levels Inheritors Crusader.
CL 17 (9th level spells)
BAB 17 (Flurry at 16/16/11/6/1)
Bravory/Valour Alt Channel with Quicken Channel (+4 to allies AC and Attack on a Charge)
Channel to Harm Undead/Evil Outsiders 9d6 as move action in burst, aura or cone
8rds Aura of Heroism (swift action)
8rds Aura of Wrath (standard action)
Clerics of Imodae can cast Good Hope as 4th level spell
5/day Stunning Fist with Ki Focus Longsword can be used as part of full attack.
Stigmata as Move action (+4 to Attack, or Damage or Saves)
Maximised self healing
Looks ok to me...
Just need to sort feat progression...
Traits- Magical Knack, Sacred Conduit
Touch of Good, Touch of Glory, +2 DC to Offensively Channel, Channel Energy 1d6, +1 Allies AC, Selective Channel, Alignment Channel
Channel Energy 2d6, Wpn Fcs
Bonus Feat, Flurry of Blows, Stunning Fist 1/day, Unarmed Strike
Stunning Fist 2/day Power Attack
Channel Energy 3d6, +2 Allies AC
Quicken Channel
Channel Energy 4d6
Stunning Fist 3/day Aura of Wrath, Aura of Heroism, Improved Channel
Vindicator’s Shield, Channel Energy 5d6
Stigmata, +3 Allies AC, Feat
Faith Healing (empower), Channel Energy 6d6
Divine Wrath, Stunning Fist 4/day Feat
Bloodfire, Channel Smite, Channel Energy 7d6,
Versatile Channel, Quicken Spell
Divine Judgment, Channel Energy 8d6, +4 Allies AC
Faith Healing (maximize), Stunning Fist 5/day Iron Will
Champion of Honor, Aura of Great Courage
Destroyer of Tyranny, Divine Interference
Sword Against Injustice
It looks good to me, but I need to pick my Monk Feat (probably Dragon Style) and 2 general feats.
I'm also not sure if this is really any better than Straight Cleric10/HV10.
You lose the style feat and stunning fist, but gain divine wrath and could use a falcata instead.
Same CL
+1 more stigmata as a swift rather than move action
1 less attack, since no flurry but you could get a quickdraw shield and quickdraw feat to abuse action economy, allowing you to benefit from Vindicators shield and still 2hand the falcata...
See my rough build. Monk was taken at level 4.
Nice an early for a extra attack and a boost to all saves, bonus feat. An stunning fist.
Early in the career, a dip into Ranger helps with BAB, Reflex Saves, and skill points. Plus with a cleric's typically high Wisdom score, excellent Perception and Survival skills. Martial weapon proficiencies too.
Barbarian would be fun. Rage, Speed, Weapons, hit points, skills.
Fighter gives heavy armor, weapons, and a feat.
Paladin gives heavy armor, weapons, smite, detect evil.
Sorcerer and Wizard jacks up Will Saves some more, adds spell diversity--especially wands, scrolls, and staffs. Poor BAB, though.
Bard adds some buffing and Reflex save boost and skills. Rogue sneak attack and Reflex and skills. But both really affect BAB.
Gunslinger might be interesting. Full BAB, 2 good saves, weapons, skills, a ranged touch attack, and Grit is based on Wisdom too.
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Correcting myself before someone else can
...additional flurry attacks at the appropriate monk levels (1, 6, 11, and 16)...
Should have said (1, 8, and 15). Sometimes I even confuse myself trying to explain monks.
The final thing I would say on your build is that multiclassing for power generally only works for a specific level (like a module). In a 1-20 game, you will probably find yourself behind the power curve.
There are two guys I know in PFS who play Mystic Theurges. They are behind the power curve and often play down when given the choice. They play them because the concept is cool and fun.