Currently right now I'm in a group that has some roleplayers, some combat geeks, and some that mix in between. I was approached by a fellow player with a statement that I often outshine the party mechanically and on top of that I roleplay well. Last campaign we had a bard that used a short bow with 8 strength and 14 dex. a twf rogue that never attacked and it was a low level campaign, a urban barbarian spirit totem that dumped con, a 2h paladin, a cleric that was a healbot, and a bloodline fire sorcerer. I was the paladin. Should I feel bad for outshining these characters? Should I feel bad that half of them don't roleplay so I often take the reigns instead?
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Why do other players not optimize their characters ?
Do you lend a hand to help them build their concepts as to be efficient ?
If the other players haven't fun right now, then whatever you are doing, you're doing it wrong. But this doesn't mean you have to totally dump your own fun, and I would suggest to :
- stand back and let other players a bit more air to breathe/roleplay. Show the fellow player that you are doing efforts to let people shine, without putting it in his face. See how it turns out after some sessions.
- help other players optimize their concept if they want it ; optimize in the good way, not the munchkin sense. A rules lawyer is always welcomed by people with a bit less rules-fu.
- help other people roleplay by suggesting things that could be cool, or things their character would do/say from your character's POV. Do it while standing back, or you will look like the diva who takes all the roleplay time, including your fellow players's.
I've had similar experiences when, as a very experience roleplayer, I do more optimizing and more roleplaying than my fellow players.
To help not be to dominant in the roleplaying, I've found that it's good to have an in-character excuse to take a back seat once in a while. For example, the Paladin of Sarenrae I'm currently playing spends every morning praying at dawn, which gives me an excuse to say "Go head and decide without me, I'll be busy praying." Also, he sometimes chooses not to engage in conversations with individuals he deems to be untrustworthy (like low-level evil NPCs, or generally shady characters), which puts me "just keeping an eye on him, he looks shifty to me" while the other characters interact.
To help not overshadow other characters through optimization, I've had good luck with being narrowly effective. For example, you could make a fighter that deals twice as much damage as anyone else but has no other skills is easy to compete with - just not on damage. So, the party rogue is still the sneaky, lock picking, trap finding, party scout and dungeoneer, whether or not he ever deals much damage. On the other hand, if you want to play a rogue to someone else's fighter, you might want to reverse the roles and let the amateur deal most of the damage. Basically, let everyone have a schtick, including yourself, and don't step on each other's schtick.
Why do other players not optimize their characters ?
Do you lend a hand to help them build their concepts as to be efficient ?If the other players haven't fun right now, then whatever you are doing, you're doing it wrong. But this doesn't mean you have to totally dump your own fun, and I would suggest to :
- stand back and let other players a bit more air to breathe/roleplay. Show the fellow player that you are doing efforts to let people shine, without putting it in his face. See how it turns out after some sessions.
- help other players optimize their concept if they want it ; optimize in the good way, not the munchkin sense. A rules lawyer is always welcomed by people with a bit less rules-fu.
- help other people roleplay by suggesting things that could be cool, or things their character would do/say from your character's POV. Do it while standing back, or you will look like the diva who takes all the roleplay time, including your fellow players's.
The funny thing is that I often play socially awkward characters to allow others to but it. However it doesn't work often because some of them are shy, some don't give a crap about roleplaying. There is two people that roleplay other then myself. The person who brought up the complaint and the guy that played the sorcerer. It seems that people don't like to listen to the sorcerer for long amounts of time since he's extremely narcissistic. The other guy sometimes likes to talk but not as often as the other.
I'm somewhat to blame because sometimes I've described what was happening like a GM because I like to share what I envision the characters doing. I've always gotten positive comments. I sometimes know rules that the GM doesn't know. I've tried a couple of times giving players a nudge into roleplaying. I end up just walking them through how roleplaying works most of the time.
As to tell you why the complaint sort of came up it was somewhat reactionary on my friends part. He told me that he wanted to be a necromancer that summons stuff and buffs. I suggested a summoner because I know that my friend will quit half of his characters if they're weak. He said I don't care if necromancers are bad. However I know he'll regret playing the character under what he's thinking. I guess he sort of lashed out because I told him he could have the same theme on a summoner and it would be more effective.
The thing is that some of the players have been playing for a while and aren't really willing to learn the mechanics of the game. We still have to sometimes walk them through rolling attacks and adding modifiers. My GM made one of the characters for a player. Perhaps I'm just in a pickle.
The funny thing is that I often play socially awkward characters to allow others to but it. However it doesn't work often because some of them are shy, some don't give a crap about roleplaying. There is two people that roleplay other then myself. The person who brought up the complaint and the guy that played the sorcerer. It seems that people don't like to listen to the sorcerer for long amounts of time since he's extremely narcissistic. The other guy sometimes likes to talk but not as often as the other.
I'm somewhat to blame because sometimes I've described what was happening like a GM because I like to share what I envision the characters doing. I've always gotten positive comments. I sometimes know rules that the GM doesn't know. I've tried a couple of times giving players a nudge into roleplaying. I end up just walking them through how roleplaying works most of the time.
As to tell you why the complaint sort of came up it was somewhat reactionary on my friends part. He told me that he wanted to be a necromancer...
From the sound of it, your issue may be primarily with the one player. I imagine his? issue may not be so much with his PC's effectiveness, than with other things as well as his own thoughts and issues. I'm not certain, though (I'm just a person on the internet, and I don't really know you or your group).
Might I suggest talking with one of the other players on the side?
Concerning power level, I can't comment on this specific situation, as I don't know how optimised the characters are.
Generally, I'd say that nobody should be ashamed about a reasonably well-built and optimised character, as long as it's not taken to ridiculous levels and the character is not just a min/maxed set of numbers, but has actual character traits (and I'm not talking about the stuff found in rulebooks).
By ridiculous levels I mean stuff like putting a 7 into every ability score that does not directly improve your effectivity.
Should someone who has a firm grasp of the game rules be ashamed of himself because his character doesn't rely on the GM's goodwill to keep him alive? Is it bad to be better than characters created by players that are either inexperienced, or simply bad at the game? Or, worse yet, under the ludicrous assumption that you can only really roleplay worthwhile concepts if the character is ridiculously powerless? Of course not.
I'm not saying it's bad to be inexperienced. Happens. Everyone was new at this at some time. It's also OK to be bad at this, as long as you're willing to improve, have fun playing, and don't endanger the party by being so bad you get them into trouble along with yourself. I do say it's bad to intentionally make useless characters because you think you can't roleplay with a useful character.
But it's not bad to be good, either. Even if the rest of the party is worse. Never.
Being "too good" at roleplaying is a separate matter. Being good at getting into character is always great. If you're a "RP pro" in a group of otherwise too-introverted or inexperienced players just means that you should try to help the others and/or try to hold back to let them try it.
Note that being good at roleplaying is not the same as talking all the time. Like the guy who will always talk. Doesn't matter whether his character is charismatic or not, or is a talker or not, or there are other characters a lot more suited to negotiate - some guys will talk, talk first, and then not stop talking. That's not only bad roleplaying, it's rude as heck and if you have roleplaying newbloods, it's making sure they won't get better.