Yes, I'm aware this is a weird question. It's a summoner question, so of course it's weird.
I'm considering playing a master summoner, and as the Eidolon isnt really a combat focus, I'm planning to make it a mount, and fill in some skills my group is lacking.
The pertinent question here, is can a quadraped eidolon disable devices, assuming it has the skill to do so? with Skilled: Disable Device and Skill Focus: Disable Device I can get it up to +17 at first level or so.
The only thing is I'd rather not spend 2 evo points on the limbs evolution if I don't have to, so I can take Skilled: Perception and Skilled: Survival instead. It'd be nice, right?
Is this viable? are there examples of other fingerless creatures who can disable devices? Thoughts? opinions? banhammer of cheesiness?
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I can say empirically, having owned a cat, yes.
The idea that Deft Hands is a feat that allows for better disabling, and that thieves tools give circumstantial bonuses to disabling, I would say, no, a creature without hands can't disable. Of course, that is not properly backed up by RAW because at no point (that I'm aware of) do the rules explicitly state that you must have hands to disable. Of course these same rules have no built in penalty for not sleeping, ever.
Right. I realize that RAW, I can get away with this. That isnt really the sort of arguement I'd like to present. I was hoping for examples within the game of other creatures without fingers that have ranks in disable device, that sort of thing.
I'm really trying to be reasonable, and optimize, all at the same time. crazy, I know
edit: also, that being said, normal thieves tools dont give a bonus to disabling. you actually take a penalty if you don't use them instead, the same -2 circumstance penalty. I'd be perfectly willing to take that, if it came to it.
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I can think of no example of a creature without an adequate approximation of an opposable thumb-type extremity being able to disable devices.
My dog picked the lock on the gate. No kidding.
Remember that an eidolon is not an animal, it's some sort of freakish magical being from another plane of existance.
So allowing it to disable device is not such a weird stretch. However I'd not allow it to use normal thieves tools.
You could give it the arms evolution of course, then there's no problem anymore.
Or maybe... that's houserule territory though, ask your GM if you could have the front limbs of your eidolon be arms instead of legs, while still being a mount and that.
Of course that makes it more a biped than a quadruped, and you should lose the leg bonus etc... so not sure its a good idea.
So your eidolon can look like whatever you want to right? Just say that it's a horse with a tongue shaped like a lockpick. Now your eidolon can pick locks. Or lick pocks.
This is the exact reason why the RAW is left deliberately vague- so that your amorphous faerie space flea can use disable device, even if it doesn't look like it should be able to, so long as you paid the skill ranks. These questions don't really need to be asked.
Thank you for the insight folks. Feel free to keep it coming. I've linked this thread from our own message boards so my DM can peruse at his leisure and form an opinion.
More info would never be discouraged, even though I'm fairly optimistic given the responses so far
Racoons and Mustelidaes perform disable device quite well.
As do birds (Keas, anyone?) Link
And if your DM still says no, 1 evo for a tentacle should be able to do anything a hand can do (as Octopi and Lovecraft can attest)
Racoons have very good manual dexterity.
That said, rats and other gnawing critters can do an extremely good job of disabling devices provided said devices are made of something without excessive hardness and need never use so much as a finger...
I was going to end up using the evolution points on Skilled: Perception and Skilled: Survival instead of the Limbs: Arms evolution. It'd certainly help tracking, which our party needs.
just gotta wait to see what the DM decides.