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Also, I do have a problem with the "to half" max approach as still being overly powerful for a 0 level spell. At low levels you can easily (over the course of an adventuring day) have CmW restore half of what CLW would have restored - that effectively doubles your healing output and halved your need for healing resources.Consider Ray of Frost... you can cast it once per round all day long. Eventually (9 rounds on the average), you could do more damage than a level 1 Magic Missile.
Ray of Frost is something which doesn't scale in utility in use like CMW would (as proposed) and would rarely be used after level 3. If anything it is a backup attack at best. CMW on the other hand could easily heal 60-90 hp in one hour/hour and a half in-between fights or before resting for the night. Divide that number of healed hit points amongst a group of low to mid-level PCs and it becomes a HUGE game changer.
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You now increased all healing resources available to the party, which in turn changes the entire game (more healing during fights, pacing, challenges, etc).I don't think any arguments are going to sway me on that one, sorry.
You don't think that will have any balance issues or effect on the game as a whole?-
Considering the abundant usage of Wands of Cure Light Wounds (as viewed by comments on this board), not at all.
Two wrongs do not make it right. I think one of the worst/broken inventions in 3e was the creation of the CLW wand. That of course is my opinion of the matter and I'm sure I am in the minority here.
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The point isn't subbing out CMW for the need for CLW wand, et al - the point is: do you really need to have max hp before every fight? Does there need to be that much free healing available so the PCs are not inconvenienced by damage or the threat of going into a fight at less than 100%?
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This goes towards play style, but I am of the mindset of "too much, too easy", spammable CMW is part of that problem (again, as presented as max 1/2 hp, 1/use minute).
I chose up to half max hitpoints because anything less too often means that someone is one hit from death. Being positive hitpoints, but at a point of actually dying on the next hit fails the litmus test for fun for me. Being at half hitpoints is still a fairly hefty penalty disadvantage.
Then you and I will never agree on the subject, every game I run or play has to have some degree of "one hit from death" component to it. The weakest/softest being a modified version of PF (with some 1st/2nd ed AD&D rules) to other game systems which are just more brutal. That is just a play style preference for me and my players.
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If CMW works for you and your group then, great - more power to you and I sincerely wish you good gaming.
Level 1 spell.
If you have 3 ranks in Heal, then casting it does not use up a slot or spells-per-day.
Level 1 spell.
If you have 3 ranks in Heal, then casting it does not use up a slot or spells-per-day.
Why not just use my suggested custom spell to have the cantrip accelerate Treat Deadly Wounds from 1 hour --> 1 minute... you can only have your wounds treated once per 24 hours and it restores your HD in HP. As I said before, not broken, emphasizes ranks in Heal and uses Heal's existing system to handle how it functions.
Because I read the first 5 posts, posted my bit, and left the thread.
Because I read the first 5 posts, posted my bit, and left the thread.
Fair enough...
Here is my take on the accelerated healing idea.
Accelerated Healing
Level 0
Duration 10 min/level
You accelerate the bodies natural healing. The target heal 1 HP every 5 minutes.
So basically, you throw it on someone, and 5 minutes later they heal 1 HP. Let it go for an hour and it gives 12 HP. Great for really low levels, but it will get weaker at higher levels. Casting it multiple times is pointless, and it is not a great spell when you are in a hurry.
I'm bringing this back.
I don't at all feel that being able to cast limitless 1HPs each day breaks the game.
It makes lower level adventures a bit more easy to survive and in higher level adventures it is completely pointless one way or the other.
And after a fight, when there's another fight coming soon, the PCs have to choose whether to use their Happy Stick or stronger -- or really weak Cure Minor Wounds. 1 HP per PC per round is not that much: 6 HP per minute I can deal with even if it's limitless.
What do you guys think?
If any of you playtested it, what happened?
I don't know how your group plays, but most of my group's healing comes after combat. They will sit around and cast that spell all day which saves them resources making them more likely to get to the boss guy with more resources. <--Why it is not pointless in high level combat.
If they are in a time crunch they won't be able to use it, but otherwise it is a sound tactic.It also make stopping bleed too easy. Right now bleed cost resources. You can stop it with a heal check, but that is not a great idea in combat, and it is just asking for an AoO.
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We have been using Cure Minor since July in our campaign(s) and it has not broke anything. We do limit the time between casts though. It is limited to one cast per turn.
Clarification... old school "Turn"... ie-10 minutes.
But then we use our Healing skill as, well, Healing. DC15 Anything in excess of 15 is the amount healed up to the healer's Wisdom Modifier.
Hmm, another 0th level spell:
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School: Necromancy; Level: Brd 0; Clr 0; Drd 0; Sor/Wiz 0; Witch 0
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close
Target: Living creature.
Duration: Instantaneous[/b]
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance: Yes
Caster invokes life-binding magic that allows him to apply single use of Heal skill to the target.
If the caster actually touches the target he gains enhancement bonus to skill check equal to the caster level (maximum +20).
It can be used to treat deadly wounds as a standard action instead of 1 hour but still is subject to single treat deadly wounds per day limit.
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Hmm, another 0th level spell:
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School: Necromancy; Level: Brd 0; Clr 0; Drd 0; Sor/Wiz 0; Witch 0
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close
Target: Living creature.
Duration: Instantaneous[/b]
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance: Yes
Caster invokes life-binding magic that allows him to apply single use of Heal skill to the target.
If the caster actually touches the target he gains enhancement bonus to skill check equal to the caster level (maximum +20).It can be used to treat deadly wounds as a standard action instead of 1 hour but still is subject to single treat deadly wounds per day limit.
I like that this uses a pre-existing mechanic (treat deadly wounds) and uses the built-in limitations of treat deadly wounds to limit it's use (and even excludes 'stacking' it with mundane uses of treat deadly wounds, so that it effectively doesn't increase the amount of healing available, in total).
The two things I would consider changing would be to have the spell allow someone to use the treat deadly wounds option without requiring uses of a Healer's Kit (the 'magic bandage' being a conjuration that replaces the needed materials), and the bonus being a flat bonus, such as +10 to the check to treat deadly wounds, instead of +caster level, so that the cantrip is more useful at lower levels (when the Heal skill is most likely to be too low to reliably treat deadly wounds anyway).
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We have been using Cure Minor since July
Thanks.
This is exactly what I'd been hoping to find, someone who's been doing it and how it's worked.
After reading the various posts, this is what I'm gonna start doing:
Cure Minor Wounds is unlimited, as per 0 level spells, but,...
-A Feat can double that number. Triple at 10th Lvl (When Skill Focus bumps up)
-The Healing Domain gives you 3 more per 10 minutes. (6 W/ that Feat)
This is nothing to keep track of. Doing easy math a Cleric can know that he can cast Cure Minor 18 times every 10 minutes -- After the fights I break things down in 10 minute increments often enough; kinda thing.
And unrelated NPC Clerics in the various villages and towns won't be broken with this, either.
Awesome.
I like that this uses a pre-existing mechanic (treat deadly wounds) and uses the built-in limitations of treat deadly wounds to limit it's use (and even excludes 'stacking' it with mundane uses of treat deadly wounds, so that it effectively doesn't increase the amount of healing available, in total).
That was completly intentional. This spell has two primary advantages: range (with any application of Heal skill) and time (with all applications of Heal skill that take more than 1 standard action).
The two things I would consider changing would be to have the spell allow someone to use the treat deadly wounds option without requiring uses of a Healer's Kit (the 'magic bandage' being a conjuration that replaces the needed materials), and the bonus being a flat bonus, such as +10 to the check to treat deadly wounds, instead of +caster level, so that the cantrip is more useful at lower levels (when the Heal skill is most likely to be too low to reliably treat deadly wounds anyway).
I thought about both when I wrote it. When it comes to bonus granted I wondered between adding 1/2 caster level, adding caster level, adding fixed +10 or even not giving any bonus and instead setting Heal check die at 15 or even natural 20.
If I go with a fixed bonus then I will probably ignore the matter healer's kit uses and instead the bonus will be enough to easily overcome -4 penalty for 0 uses of healer's kit expended.Now I wonder. Maybe the bonus to Heal check should be equal to caster's primary spellcasting ability bonus (Int for Wizards/Witches, Cha for Bards, Oracles and Sorcerers and Wisdom for Clerics/Druids). Or maybe primary spellcasting ability bonus plus caster level?
Cure Minor Wounds
School conjuration (healing); Level Brd 0; Clr 0; Drd 0; Sor/Wiz 0; Witch 0
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range touch
Target creature touched
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Will half (harmless); see text; Spell Resistance yes
(harmless); see text
When laying your hand upon a living creature, you channel positive energy that cures 1 point of damage if the target is at or above half hit points, otherwise it has no effect. Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell deals damage to them instead of curing their wounds. An undead creature can apply spell resistance, and can attempt a Will save to take no damage.
I didn't read most of the thread after the first few posts, so if this has already been suggested, ignore please:
Cure Minor Wounds: You can cure an amount of damage up to your wisdom modifier per person once every 24 hours.
Wisdom 18? You can cure Joe Fighter of up to 4 hit points today, as well as Bob the Wizard.
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Cure Minor Wounds
School conjuration (healing); Level Brd 0; Clr 0; Drd 0; Sor/Wiz 0; Witch 0
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range touch
Target creature touched
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Will half (harmless); see text; Spell Resistance yes
(harmless); see text
When laying your hand upon a living creature, you channel positive energy that cures 1 point of damage if the target is at or above half hit points, otherwise it has no effect. Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell deals damage to them instead of curing their wounds. An undead creature can apply spell resistance, and can attempt a Will save to take no damage.
Shouldnt that be "at half HP or below". That way it cant be used after every fight top top off HP, but can be used to at leastget people stabalized and back on their feet, but not to full power on its own.
The way I see it, all this does is replace the CLW wand-- which is a far greater offense against versimilitude than having unlimited healing in the first place. I would rather have characters with faster natural healing (which makes more sense given the combat rules) than forcing them to rely on a spellcaster so much for healing in the first place.
If we're going to insist on a 'magic' solution, a less powerful version of cure minor wounds-- like allowing stabilize to heal as cure light wounds if the recipient rests for an uninterrupted hour afterward-- would be the way to go. The goal shouldn't be unlimited healing, but allowing characters to recover quickly enough to keep the game going.
Hopefully without godawful kludges like the wand of CLW.
Sure let heal 1 HP but, cap it. The taget can never heal more than CON Modifer + level per day.
This helps but still makes uper level healing spell worth while.
A Hard Core Dwarf Fighter level 20 with 30 CON. Would have MAX HP 324 and most he could heal form this hould be 40 HP in day. About 12% total in day. While at same Dwarf at level 1 with CON 20 could heal 6 HP in day about 40% max total at level 1 but it drop to about 27% at level 2 droping even more to about 19% at level 3.
If let Cure minor go unlimtless why cast any healing spell. The become pretty much point less other wise.
I just make and carry wands of infernal healing. That way no need to roll. Just pick how many HP you're down divide by 10 and subtract that many charges.
I played in several adventure paths where CMW was in use. In one you could buy cloth bandages that healed one point. Yes it stabalized, but the recipient was usually not going to get up in time to rejoin combat. Several times we used it on NPCs or even monsters we needed to question.
The original premise that the stabilize spell is weak sauce and should be tossed out of the ring is valid.
I just make and carry wands of infernal healing. That way no need to roll. Just pick how many HP you're down divide by 10 and subtract that many charges.
I plan on adding equivalent celestial and nature variants of that spell with some minor drawbacks concerning the use. Let others have fun too.
Instead of capping the spell, cap the number of cantrips / orisons you can cast per day. Make it something large but not infinite. Maybe equal to Stat/2 + Level, maybe twice that for spontaneous casters like sorcerers. So a typical 1st level cleric gets 9 or 10 cantrips per day. He won't spam them all on CMW because he needs some for Light, Detect Magic and other useful stuff.
I just make and carry wands of infernal healing. That way no need to roll. Just pick how many HP you're down divide by 10 and subtract that many charges.I plan on adding equivalent celestial and nature variants of that spell with some minor drawbacks concerning the use. Let others have fun too.
With the exception of a Pally, rarely have I seen characters who even notice the 1 min evil aura per casting. Many DM's simply don't like and/or care about alignment issues.
The spell heals 1 point. Never more than 1 point. Does it need further capping? I could live with 10 zero level spells. Possibly more for sorcs and less for wizards.
Touch of Eris. Zero level.
Heals one point of damage. Caster and person healed detect as chaotic for one minute. :)
With the exception of a Pally, rarely have I seen characters who even notice the 1 min evil aura per casting. Many DM's simply don't like and/or care about alignment issues.I just make and carry wands of infernal healing. That way no need to roll. Just pick how many HP you're down divide by 10 and subtract that many charges.I plan on adding equivalent celestial and nature variants of that spell with some minor drawbacks concerning the use. Let others have fun too.
Yeah, but it won't help good cleric who just can't prepare or cast infernal healing due to alignment restriction or bards and druids who don't have infernal healing on their spell list.
I just make and carry wands of infernal healing. That way no need to roll. Just pick how many HP you're down divide by 10 and subtract that many charges.I plan on adding equivalent celestial and nature variants of that spell with some minor drawbacks concerning the use. Let others have fun too.
How about this
Sarenrae's Grace (change the name for non-Golarion settings)
School conjuration (healing) [good]; Level cleric/oracle 1, magus 1, sorcerer/wizard 1, summoner 1, witch 1
Casting Time 1 round
Components V, S, M (1 drop of angel tear or 1 dose of holy water)
Range touch
Target creature touched
Duration 1 minute
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance yes (harmless)
You anoint a wounded creature with angel’s tear or holy water, giving it fast healing 1. This ability cannot repair damage caused by silver weapons, evil-aligned weapons, or spells or effects with the evil descriptor. The target detects as a good creature for the duration of the spell, though this has no long-term effect on the target’s alignment, and can sense the warm embrace of the Dawnflower, feeling utterly protected in her care and takes a -4 penalty on initiative and perception checks.
Maybe the -4 is too much, but if it was just "and you feel a warm, fuzzy feeling" there wouldn't be much of a drawback. If you don't want that, you gotta use the evil version of the spell.
Is silver still apropriate? Not sure, is there a metal that angels react bad to?
Druid version:
Nature's Embrace
School conjuration (healing); Level druid 1
Casting Time 1 round
Components V, S, M (1 drop of fey blood)
Range touch
Target creature touched
Duration 1 minute
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance yes (harmless)
You anoint a wounded creature with fey’s blood, giving it fast healing 1. This ability cannot repair damage caused by cold-iron weapons, any aligned weapon, or spells or effects with an alignment descriptor. The target detects as a true neutral creature for the duration of the spell, though this has no long-term effect on the target’s alignment.
I envisioned druidic version as covering the target with tangle of vines, leaves and moss that root the subject to earth entangling him for the duration of the spell.