| Duckroll |
In our campaign recently it has come up that we lack both an effective tank and a rogue. We'd been making due recently with our other fighter trying to tank but because of the way he set up his character, he's not really suited to be taking all the big hits. We'd been lacking a rogue for some time and it had not been an issue until recently when we started encountering quite a few more traps.
Since my character heroically fell in battle during our last session I wanted to try and come up with a character combination that could do both. My GM told me I could re-roll at lvl6 to match the party.
I was looking into a 3 way multiclass with 2 levels in each of Oracle, Rogue and Monk. The idea being that I could get the Monk AC bonus then use a quarterstaff with the Shield of Swings feat while still being able to flurry. With the oracle levels I was planning on taking the Wood mystery so I could get the Wood Armour revelation, Shillelagh, and eventually work may way up to Barkskin.
For our campaigns we don't use a point buy, opting to roll stats, here are the ones I have to work with:
15,16,16,14,15,16.
I was looking for any possible suggestions on feats or maybe a better way to multiclass to make this work. The only things that are really a requirement are that I have rogue levels for disable/trapfinding and that I can tank decently well for the party. Pretty much any of the books are available for use.
| OberonViking |
I'd make a straight rogue, human, aiming for really high AC
Str 18, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 15, Wis 15, Cha 14 (assuming a racial +2 into Str - putting it into Dex would be just as viable, 4th level attribute left up to you)
+2 Breastplate, +2 Heavy Wooden Shield
Feats: Dodge, Shield Focus, Toughness, Point Blank Shot.
AC: 27, HP (average) 48.
MW Shortsword
Attack: +9, 1d6+4 +3d6 Sneak Attack
MW Composite Shortbow +4 Str
Attack: +8, 1d6+4 (+9 at upto 30', Rapid Shot as the next feat)
There you have a rogue tank who can dish out damage and take it. With the AC that high you should have little to worry about moving through threatened squares to flank and then sneak attack. Happy times.
| Kierato |
Halfling Rogue/6
Str 14; Dex 18; Con 16; Int 15; Wis 16; Cha 16
+2 racial for dex and Cha, -2 str, +1 bonus to Wis for being more than 4th level.
Feats: Toughness, Dodge, Agile Manuevers
Rogue Talents: Befuddling strike (APG), Finesse Rogue, Combat Trick (improved disarm, trip, or dirty fighting)
Use combat maneuvers to reduce the enemies chance or opportunity to hit you. Good AC and above average HP. Choose a weapon that helps with combat maneuvers.
| Lepermachaun |
For a high Cha rogue:
Oracle 1: sidestep secret or nature's whispers, add cha to armor class. Oddly, sidestep is supernatural and whispers is extraordinary, if antimagic is a problem
Paladin 2: cha to saves, hit on smites
sacred shield archetype: vs evil, you can protect your party and get a big ac bump
| Blue Star |
Take ninja, abuse shadow clones, use Crane Style/wing/riposte, become incredibly hard to hit, thus incredibly hard to hurt. You don't even have to worry about armor issues, though I'd highly recommend Paladin, Ranger, or Fighter to supplement your durability with a heavier armor, so you can keep your ability to hit.
If you take a level of ranger you can add the trapper archetype, which gives you trapfinding.
Regrs
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Well it depends what you need from both class types.
Lots of classes are candidate for tank, the question is:
Do you need the rogue for skill monkeying, trapfinding/disabling or sneak-attack damage dealing?
As Mark Sweetman mentioned above Urban Ranger is your best bet.
Full BA, lots of skills, trapfinding and viable to play with Mithral Breastplate and Shield while wielding a finess-able weapon.
Skyrocket your Dexterity score followed by Constitution and Intelligence.
Consider choosing Dwarf as a race its benefits compliment nicely both tanks and rogues (trapfinding rogues).
Prefer a switch-hitter variant using crossbows for combat style in order to keep your threat high enough (avoid the full attacking ranger or take him out as quickly as possible?)
InVinoVeritas
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Here's a full build for a Rogue Tank you could try. Heavy armor, shield, and lots of sneak attack.
He also makes a good face.
nosig
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depends on what you want the Rogue part for... if it's just a trap detector you are looking for, I've been finding Cleric works better - if you give him a trait like Eye & Ears of the City that gives him Perception as a class skill. My 5th level cleric has a perception of 15+, easily better than the Rogues I've adventured with. And the Archer (fighter) I normally adventure with has Disable Device (trait Goldfinger) and a really high dex. I tank the front line (High AC and High Perception), when I find a trap he disarms it. When we encounter monsters he shoots and I pin the beasty.
So - if you need/want a Tank, build a Tank. If you need a Trap Detector, just build a high perception (high Wis, Traits and equipment) on the tank.
Alexander Kilcoyne
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How about when someone asks for help making a Rogue... We limit dogpiling 'rogues suck make this instead!' to one or two posts?
Offensive Defence is an incredible rogue talent, Abrahams right.
If you don't mind losing trapfinding, I recommend Thug. As a tank you want to be in the thick of things anyway, and while your there why not make every enemy within 30 feet of you shaken on a bad roll or frightened on a good one with Dazzling Display? Shaken is -2 to attack rolls among other things making you harder to hit while frightened means no attacks are coming at you at all; even better.
Sickening the target from your attack by losing 3-4 damage on a sneak attack with no save and a duration of half your level is another -2 to attacks; and you lose the two worst features of Rogues (IMO), Trapfinding and Trap Sense for it. At 3rd level, scoring a sneak attack gives you +2 to AC (Dodge bonus), -2 to the enemy's to hit from sickened condition, and if you take the Enforcer feat and use a non-lethal weapon, you can pile on the shaken condition (another -2 to hit as well as other penalties) with the potential to make it frightened either with a critical hit or by succeeding enough on the intimidate check (both allows you 2 rounds of frightened- win!).
At higher levels, add a mithral shield to the mix (no penalties even though you don't have proficiency) for even more AC.
I would recommend against a massive dex TWF for this build; go with something reasonably burly as you have great stats.
If your interested I can post up what I think you should do with your rolls and character creation to make this character.
| meabolex |
The urban ranger is a much better choice than anything else I've seen here.
You can focus your primary stat into Str (not having to focus on Dex), you can get into heavy armor eventually with mithral full plate (you'll need Heavy Armor Proficiency though), you get a shield, you get disable device/trapfinding as a rogue, you get good fort saves (very important for front-line characters) and you stay focused on a single class. Seems like it's just overall the best deal.
nosig
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Alexander - I was not in any way saying "rogues suck" so your comment "How about when someone asks for help making a Rogue... We limit dogpiling 'rogues suck make this instead!' to one or two posts?".
I run 6 characters in PFSOP - 3 of them are Rogues. One of the others is my Cleric - who is normally the party Trap Detector, a function which is what the OP said he was looking for in his build. ("...recently when we started encountering quite a few more traps"). He asked for advice on how to multiclass his character...
OP: "I was looking for any possible suggestions on feats or maybe a better way to multiclass to make this work."
I was suggesting that if all he was wanting from the dip in Rogue was the trap detection and possibly the disable device he could likely get that from a Tank build (whatever he likes in a Tank) without taking the Rogue levels. My advice was, build a tank he likes and add in Perception and maybe Disable Device.
I thought he wanted advice on how to build a Tank with some Rogue skills - so I advised him to build a Tank with some Rogue skills... in what way is this "Rogues suck, build this"?
calagnar
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This might work for you.
Half elf
Ranger 4 / Rogue 2 (Total 6/14.Leveling to Ranger 6 before taking rogue levels.)
Str 18 (+1 all levels.)
Dex 16
Con 16
Int 14
Wis 15
Cha 15
Traits: Rostlander, Reactionary
Feats: Improved Initiative, Two Weapon Fighting, Quick Draw
Combat Style Feats: Double Slice
Rogue Talent : Fast Stealth
Half elf Adaptability: Skill Focus (Perception)
Multitalented: Ranger & Rogue Favord Class (+1HP per level)
Skills :
Acrobatics 6+3+3=12
Bluff 6+3+2=11
Diplomacy 6+3+2=11
Disable Device 6+3+3=12
Knowledge (geography) 6+3+2=11
Knowledge (local) 2+3+2=7
Linguistics 6+3+2=11
Perception 6+3+2+2+3=16
Sense Motive 2+3+2=7
Stealth 6+3+3=12
Survival 6+3+2=11
Weapons Used: Composet Long Bow, Dual Kukri.
Zephyre Al'dran
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Vivisectionist alchemist with heavy armor. A rogue will never have as easy access to blur and Shield.
Or be hitting as often as you.
I second Cheapy. Take a 1st lvl Gunslinger - Gun Tank Archetype, 5 levels Alchemist - Vivisectionist/Preservationist. Now you have a heavy armor 3/4 caster with a ranged touch sneak attack and the ability to standard action summon mooks to flank with. Take a trait to give your self disable device. Carry a Musket Ax or Musket Hammer
16(18)Str (+2 bonus for human)
16 Dex
16 Con
15(16) Int (+1 4th level)
15 Wis
14 Cha
Initiative +9
HP Roughly 60 (10 + PFS AVG for 5lvls(25)+18 for con,+7 favor class)
Atbns +4
Melee +8 (+10 with mutagen)
Ranged + 7(+9 with mutagen)
Melee damage (1d8+6+6 power Attack(musket Axe)
Ranged (1d10+4 deadly aim (musket)
Sneak Attack 3d6
Feats
Opening Volley (+4 to hit with melee attack following a sucessful ranged attack)
Power Attack
Deadly Aim
Improved Iniative
Traits - Disable Device(can't remeber what it was called), Reactionary
Skills
Acrobatic - 6 ranks + 3 class skill + 4 str - 5 armor check = + 8
Perception - 6 ranks + 3 class skill + 2 Wis = +11
Stealth - 6 ranks (can't remeber if either gunslinger or alchemist get)
Disable Device - 6 ranks + 4 trait + class + 3 stat modifier = 13
Craft Alchemy - 6 ranks + 3 class +3 int +2 alchemist = +14
Knowledge Nature (subs for Heal) - 6+3+3= +12
you will have another 2 skill points per alchemist level after this.
AC 27 (Mithril Fullplate +9) Dex(+3) + 2 Natural (Mutegen)+ 4 shield spell
Infusions - Shield and expeditious Retreat, summon nature's ally, enlarge, cure light wounds.
2nd level infusions - invisibility, cure mod wounds, fire breath - to help with swarms.
I think you can see the pattern here. Plenty of room left for your choices too. You can tank, rogue, heal & run if you need to. And hit hard to boot.