So... it's been a while since i posted in these boards... it's been a while since i played Pathfinder actually, but my gaming group found a new DM, and where gettint ready to start a new campaign, on epic scale. We intend to go all the way from lvl 1 to 20, maybe even beyond. We've already played a campaign of such lenght, taking us over 2 years to acomplish, and i played a fighter/kensai (d&d3.5 days) to lvl 24. That was one of my first characters since i started roleplaying, and he has become a legend (a saint, actually) in both my former DMs setting world, as well as mine whenever i run a game. So have the the other members of that epic party.
And so, having played many times in between, having tried many classes and prestige classes, and now having turned fully over to Pathfinder RPG, i still hold love for the fighter class. So while thinking what class should i try for this starting campaign, me and my buddy came to the idea of building two melee characters with special focus on working as a team on the battlefield. We basically want to build two fighters (or whatever class should optimize the idea better) who fight together, with the help of the teamwork fets and tactics that favor us both.
Now, i know many people don't think high of the teamwork feats, but we really want to try to pull this through, and i thought i'd ask for people in this boards since i always get great feedback and support, being myself not very good with character optimization, in addition to my long time away from this hobby. Also keep in mind that this PJ's are meant to stick together for as long it's possible, never splitting up if we can help it, so basically i'm looking for ideas that should optimize the building of this two as if they were one. Any ideas are welcome, suggestions on classes, feats, weapons, archetypes or whatever comes to mind.
As for the surce material, everything pathfinder has to offer (Core, APG, UM, UC) and maybe 3rd party. As said, we're getting started at lvl 1, and we were blessed with the 25 point buy system, thank you very much new DM.
so i'll stick around waiting for your feedback. thank you very much already.
Cheers
First things first, you will absolutely want Combat Reflexes. Teamwork feats can generate lots of attacks of opportunity, and you will want to be able to take advantage.
I'd also recommend Step Up, or even its whole chain (depending on how many feats you have). The hardest part of using teamwork feats is positioning, and this will help you keep close.
On the actual teamwork feats, your biggest goal should be using each other to generate extra attacks. Paired Opportunists + Broken Wing Gambit is pretty great, allowing both characters to get an AoO when your opponent is silly enough to attack you. You can experiment with other ways to generate AoO, like Greater Trip or a Barbarian with Come and Get Me.
Later on (starting around level 8/9), critical hits are the way to go. Outflank is an earlier way to feed off each other's criticals, but if you are really playing to 20+ I'd say take Seize the Moment. It doesn't require flanking, so you can use it with Paired Opportunists (giving both characters an AoO every time a crit is scored). Use weapons with an 18-20 threat range and get Improved Critical and Critical Focus. Also grap some nice Critical Feats while you are at it (though make sure you take different ones, as they don't stack).
If you do take Outflank, consider adding in Gang Up. It will let you (at least occasionally) take advantage of Outflank and Paired Opportunists at the same time, which is just ridiculous. You simply aren't going to miss with a +8 bonus.
Or you can just be ridiculously cheesy and have a two-weapon fighting character with Butterfly Sting paired with a Kensai that uses a pick. You won't need any actual teamwork feats on that one since, let' face it, nothing is going to survive a quintuple damage critical with spellstrike.
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Ranger/Rogue 6/14 : Traps, Healing Wands, Tracking, Melee & Ranged Combat. (Built as a str base two weapon fighter. Ability's Str>Con=Dex>Wis>Int>Cha)
Paladin 20: Healing Wands, Melee Combat, Party Face.
(Built as a two handed fighter. Ability's Str>Con=Cha>Dex>Wis>Int)
This combination lets you cover more then just fighting. It covers a wide range of ability's the group can use.
Example:
The ranger/rogue lets the paladin go first by delaying action. Paladin moves up to fight with target. Ranger/rogue uses acrobatics to gain flanking. The trick to any rogue is not to go first but to go after one of the melee in the group. This allows them to pick where they need to get to for flanking.
Or
Fighter Archetype Polearm Master 20: Combat Maneuver Expert, Reach Weapon.
(Built to fight from behind your shield man. Ability's Str>Con>Int>Dex>Wis>Cha)
Fighter Archetype Phalanx Soldier 20: Melee Combat
(Built as a high AC fighter. Ability's Str>Con>Dex>Wis>Int>Cha)
I'm currently having tons of fun with my Inquisitor. He really showed me the power of team work feats. You may want to try using two of these guys. With a 25 pt buy your commoner could be pretty bad@$$ in a fight.
I think the best suggestion I've read thus far is grabbing combat reflexes. It really does open up a whole new can of worms. throw in something like precise strike, out flank, and bane and your to hit/damage gets silly.
If 3rd party is allowed, this book might be up your alley. In particular, the Inspiring Commander will work wonderfully. The shogun and war warder may work too, but not nearly as well. But enough shameless promotions...
There are a few avenues you can try. Most of these work off "crit-fishing", or trying to get as many crits as possible.
Butterfly's Sting / Scythe. One person dual-wields 18-20 base crit range weapons, and gets improved critical with them. Even just one high-crit range weapon can do the trick. But basically, you use the Butterfly's Sting feat from Faiths of Purity (it's on d20pfsrd.com) to get some crits, then you "pass them off" to your buddy with the Scythe. Which has a x4 multiplier. This guy is pure-strength.
Another is the Paired Opportunists / Outflank combination using Falchions. Again, you're going for crits. But if you crit, your buddy who is flanking will get an AoO. When he gets an AoO, you get an AoO. If they crit, you get an AoO, and then he gets an AoO.
Basically, you try to get Crits so you can AoO the guy to death.
Hi everybody
First of all allow me to thank you very much for your answers.
It's really great to see alternatives presented to me since i was a little bit loss, but know that you've pointed out directions i'm definetely gonna check out every thing you've borught up.
I realy like the idea of the Crits+AoO since it does sound like taking full advantage of 2 PC's single attacking foes.
On the other hand i do like too the Pala+Ranger/Rogue combination, since it brings divesity and something more helpful outside the battlefield. I'm just gonna wait to hear from the other party members and what PC's they are considering.
As of right now i'm gonna take a look into what you've suggested and gonna come back to let you guys know how i fare. If any of you come with anything else i'd very happy to read about it
Cheers
Might be a little late, but I've been messing with a cavalier that uses the strategist archetype. If you know a combat is coming up you can essentially give your teammates two teamwork feats without them needing to take any. Add onto that (if you DM allows double archetypes) the standard bearer archetype you'll exude some fear immunity, mind-effecting save bonuses and attack bonuses.
You can also mess around with Greater Reposition and just slide the enemy back and forth between the two of you, free AoO all over the place.
Stack on Leadership... Hahahahahaha....