I just read Piranha strike and was wondering...
What's the difference between those? At first sight, they seems to be exactly the same feat with slightly different prerequisite?
The prerequisite difference is huge; its pretty much the whole point. Its power attack for Dexterity based builds which otherwise dont qualify for Power Attack.
As well, Piranha Strike is very limited in which weapons it effects, and additionally does not provide for two handed attacks.
I just read Piranha strike and was wondering...
What's the difference between those? At first sight, they seems to be exactly the same feat with slightly different prerequisite?
The prerequisite difference is huge; its pretty much the whole point. Its power attack for Dexterity based builds which otherwise dont qualify for Power Attack.
It's not for all dexterity builds, the dervish dancers and the rapier users can't use it.
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It's not for all dexterity builds, the dervish dancers and the rapier users can't use it.
Well, technically, a rapier user can use it as long as they're also wielding a light weapon. TWF with rapier/dagger would work. Dervish Dance (feat) also works if they have some tricky way of keeping their off-hand free. (Barbazu beard, Vestigial Arm)
You just need to be wielding a light weapon, and the bonus (and penalty) applies to all melee attack and damage rolls.
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A lot really.
Requires a light weapon, if you two-weapon it does half damage on both weapons (making it a 1-for-1 trade), and at no point can it be bumped to +3.
They really should word it to be a little better; as it stands I can't think of a build that would actually use it; TWF is worse, dervish dancer can't use it.
if you two-weapon it does half damage on both weapons
No, just the off-hand/secondary-natural. Exactly like Power Attack.
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if you two-weapon it does half damage on both weaponsNo, just the off-hand/secondary-natural. Exactly like Power Attack.
The wording is odd:
"When wielding a light weapon, you can choose to take a -1 penalty on all melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls. This bonus to damage is halved (-50%) if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon or secondary natural weapon."
So, the bonus is to all melee damage that turn, and the -50% is to all bonus damage done that turn if you are also making an attack with an off-hand weapon. It does not appear to state that only the bonus damage on the off-hand weapon/secondary natural attack is halved.
So, the bonus is to all melee damage that turn, and the -50% is to all bonus damage done that turn if you are also making an attack with an off-hand weapon. It does not appear to state that only the bonus damage on the off-hand weapon/secondary natural attack is halved.
The penalty and bonus applies to all melee attack and damage rolls.
That bonus damage is modified for attacks made with two hands, or off-hands. (or just off-hands, for Piranha Strike)
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So, the bonus is to all melee damage that turn, and the -50% is to all bonus damage done that turn if you are also making an attack with an off-hand weapon. It does not appear to state that only the bonus damage on the off-hand weapon/secondary natural attack is halved.The penalty and bonus applies to all melee attack and damage rolls.
That bonus damage is modified for attacks made with two hands, or off-hands. (or just off-hands, for Piranha Strike)
As I said, the wording is odd. It starts by stating all melee damage gains the bonus, and then says that "This bonus to damage is halved (-50%) if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon or secondary natural weapon." It does not state that the damage is halved for attacks made with off-hand or secondary natural attacks, but if you attack with an off-hand or secondary natural attack. It does not specify that the -50% is only for the off-hand/secondary natural, only for the bonus damage.
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As I said, the wording is odd. It starts by stating all melee damage gains the bonus, and then says that "This bonus to damage is halved (-50%) if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon or secondary natural weapon." It does not state that the damage is halved for attacks made with off-hand or secondary natural attacks, but if you attack with an off-hand or secondary natural attack. It does not specify that the -50% is only for the off-hand/secondary natural, only for the bonus damage.
"...if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon" it only applies to that attack.
The attacks don't happen at the same time.
I'm going to use the full-attack action with my rapier and dagger. I use Piranha Strike.
First attack: Rapier. Am I making an attack with an off-hand or secondary weapon? No. Thus, I gain +2 on my damage roll.
Second attack: Dagger. Am I making an attack with an off-hand weapon? Yes. Thus, I gain +1 on my damage roll.
Third attack, because the wizard cast Haste: Rapier. Am I making an attack with an off-hand or secondary weapon? No. Thus, I gain +2 on my damage roll.
You can replace Piranha Strike with Power Attack and that's still exactly the same situation.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor
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Piranha Strike isn't quite as good as Power Attack, particularly when you look at qualifying for other feats. In general you take Power Attack if you can and Piranha Strike if your Strength is below 13 and you use Dexterity for attacks. That's pretty much the beginning and end of the whole debate.
A lot really.
Requires a light weapon, if you two-weapon it does half damage on both weapons (making it a 1-for-1 trade), and at no point can it be bumped to +3.
They really should word it to be a little better; as it stands I can't think of a build that would actually use it; TWF is worse, dervish dancer can't use it.
My dex-based natural attack user (Goblin Viv. Beastmorph Alchemist) likes his Piranha Strike, along with his Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists.
Power Attack is unquestionably the better feat -and- a pre-req for lots of other awesome feats, so if you can qualify for either, there's certainly no reason to ever not pick Power Attack.
But for those who can't qualify for PA, PS fills a niche.