Explain Combat Manuevers to me, please.

[Manic Typist]

Specifically as they relate to Hydraulic Push.

Caster Level+ INT bonus= CMB of 7.

Low level goblin has a CMD of 12 if I recall correctly.

So, I roll d20+7 and hope I beat 12 to push the gobbo 5 feet, and more for every 5 that I beat that number by?

If so, suggestions on how I can make this spell more useful? I'd really like to be able to use it to knock things off high places that lack ledges, you know?

[Thalin]

You can't really; you do have the math right though. Best use for it is actually to help party members (who would not resist) move closer in combat.

[Jiggy]

Manic Typist wrote:

Specifically as they relate to Hydraulic Push.

Caster Level+ INT bonus= CMB of 7.

Low level goblin has a CMD of 12 if I recall correctly.

So, I roll d20+7 and hope I beat 12 to push the gobbo 5 feet, and more for every 5 that I beat that number by?

You've got it right!

Quote:

If so, suggestions on how I can make this spell more useful? I'd really like to be able to use it to knock things off high places that lack ledges, you know?

That's exactly what it's for! For maximum effect, I'd only recommend this spell for a dedicated caster with a very high casting stat. For instance, a wizard with 18-20 INT is going to get much more use out of this than my 14 WIS druid. If your casting stat is around 16-ish... well, I wouldn't devote more than one spell slot to it, then.

Other uses include getting your ally un-flanked, or forcing a foe into a position where it's flanked, etc.

[Malk_Content]

Manic Typist wrote:

Specifically as they relate to Hydraulic Push.

Caster Level+ INT bonus= CMB of 7.

Low level goblin has a CMD of 12 if I recall correctly.

So, I roll d20+7 and hope I beat 12 to push the gobbo 5 feet, and more for every 5 that I beat that number by?

If so, suggestions on how I can make this spell more useful? I'd really like to be able to use it to knock things off high places that lack ledges, you know?

RAW (and I hate that this sort of thing has never really been accounted for) if it has barrier you can't push some one over it. It is stupid and kind of curtails the fun of things like Bull Rushes. Talk to your GM, he may be willing to house rule Bull Rush. I do in all my games with two fairly simple additions.

1) If you are Bull Rushed (or other forced movement) into an object more than half your height you take the remainder of the movement you would have moved in falling damage, to a maximum of double the distance moved before the collision. E.g if you push a goblin 20ft and he collides with a wall after 10ft he takes 10ft of falling damage.

2) If you collide with an object less than half your height you must make a Reflex save (lets face it the really nasty stuff targets the other two so this gives Reflex something nicer) equal to 10 +2 for every 5ft of movement remaining. Success ends your movement in the square before the object, failure prone on the square immediately afterwards.

I don't think these houserules make Bull Rushing particularly powerful, and if I'm honest and you do suggest them beware that big monsters often make much better Bull Rushers than PCs.

[Manic Typist]

Very interesting ideas on how to use the spell. Wish I'd thought of them myself.

In the case of using it on an ally, I should treat his CMD as 0 then? Which means he automatically goes at least 10 feet?

[Sekret_One]

Using on an ally? He still uses CMD according to RAW. Honestly, most people are going to have a fairly similar reaction to getting tackled by a bad guy or their best friend.

If he is, somehow, dropping his guard completely and letting you push him around, make it 10 (or 9 if he's small).

A lot of the spell's usefulness is its extras, such as extinguishing mundane flame. Combined with dark vision you can wipe out torches and campfires... and go to town.

If you're a wizard, using any of the Create Pit spells from the APG and then hydraulic pushing enemies that saved or climb out back into the pit.

A decent tactic against enemy casters- which tend to have grand will saves and energy resistances, and force buffs to AC.

[Lincoln Hills]

Another amusing use involves enemies with reach: ordinarily the fighter-types will suffer attacks of opportunity when closing with 'em, but not if you use hydraulic push to shove the enemy right up next to your fighters. Of course, creatures big enough to have reach usually have a formidable CMD. Still good against enemies with polearms, though.

[Manic Typist]

Some more good ideas.

I think, especially in your example Lincoln, I'd tell the fighter to "go with the flow" and Hydro Push my fighter instead, since I can't see him having a a CMD greater than 10 if he chose to not defend, unless he had a size bonus.

To be honest, except for size bonus, I'm not sure why the fighter's CMD bonus couldn't be 0 since he could choose not to defend himself.

[Mage Evolving]

Sekret_One wrote:

If you're a wizard, using any of the Create Pit spells from the APG and then hydraulic pushing enemies that saved or climb out back into the pit

hydro push and pit are a great combo. cast pit hold your action and wait for a creature to walk in front of the pit cast hydro push. At the very least it should make the pit dc that much harder.

[nosig]

would True Strike work with this?

[Kolokotroni]

You can also use it in combination with area control spells like the pitt range of spells from the APG. If push someone into the pit they dont get a save, they just fall in, and if you place the pit right you wont have to push them that far.

[Sekret_One]

Manic Typist wrote:

Some more good ideas.

I think, especially in your example Lincoln, I'd tell the fighter to "go with the flow" and Hydro Push my fighter instead, since I can't see him having a a CMD greater than 10 if he chose to not defend, unless he had a size bonus.

To be honest, except for size bonus, I'm not sure why the fighter's CMD bonus couldn't be 0 since he could choose not to defend himself.

I'd be reluctant (as a GM) to let someone drop their CMD to 0 in the middle of a combat, since it's basically implying your closing your eyes, holding out your arms and letting something hit you.

I would for creativity's sake let you do it outside of combat situations if the target was willing, (or if you decided to use a free action to become helpless until the start of your next turn). Then you could use it for such things as

Fighter:"I can't jump that!"
Wizard:"Don't worry, I can help you. Go to the edge, close your eyes and think light thoughts."