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I like your idea of having the rolls on the cards. I also GM with note cards and there is a lot of wasted space. Your method seems to keep the game flowing better. I am probably just as guilty of meta gaming, but any options to help prevent game flow slow down, definitely gives players a bit more time to play out their characters personality if the game flows smoother mechanic wise.
It's also a great place to make notes about a character that you may forget about later. Like ongoing poison, disease, PC spent money to solve a challenge, etc. All things that need to be added to the chronicle, but tend to get lost during the game.
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I let the table dictate where I roll the dice. If in the first combat I roll out in the open and a player loudly announces when I hit his character on a roll of a 13 that he must have a +10 to hit then the rest of the attack rolls are behind a screen, if everyone is into the game and having fun then the rolls are out in the open. As long as where the dice rolls are being rolled doesn't change the fun of the game, I don't really care where they get rolled.
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I roll in the open and find it adds drama to the game. I also add description to enliven what happened, but for some the raw numbers are enough.
Had one player amazed I hit with a '7'. I corrected him because I'd actually rolled a '2'. (Dragon finale, forgot to PA.) The look was priceless, and instilled more fear than any description I could have made.
Usually only the nearest player can see me anyway (my papers/books take the seat to the other side), and they don't usually know what I'm rolling for (I have their skill rankings handy).
I often mix in useless dice too, focusing only on specific ones. Even then it's kind of cool when lots of high rolls pop up. The nearby player's eyes will widen, "Is that for us or against us?"
"We'll see soon, won't we?"
I also roll a disproportionate amount of crits/epic fails so I like being able to verify them, especially since so many happen to tilt the story at a crucial moment. First time ever rolling in front of players, 3 20s in a row.
I think the players appreciate the openness, I know I do from both sides of the proverbial screen. They know I'm on their side, sharing this gaming experience.
And, it's my dice killing them, not me. :)
I don't like dice boxes because they do waste space, can easily be tilted if a d20 goes errant, and I've had one player (maybe two) use them to cheat. Plus, I can determine the results faster than the player, especially with multiple attacks or blasting spells, so it keeps the game moving faster.
I can't remember ever fudging a roll, though I think I may have. I do pre-fudge, setting up auxiliary situations for particularly dangerous encounters where I know I'm pushing the envelope.
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fortunately for the players, only the black dice counted! ;)That's sick. (I gotta try that) :-)
I was at the table when he did this. It was a particularly sneaky trick to pull.
I think at one point he also grabbed up a bunch of d6s, shook them all in his cupped hands well, and then rolled like 3 of them. :P
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I roll in the open most of the time. I just started using the die roller in hero lab to speed up rolls which is the only time I roll concealed. A funny story, I was rolling a lot of criticals and critical threats on pcs with the die roller in a game I ran recently and the players asked me "You have been killing us with the die roller, can you roll with a real 20 for the next roll?"
I said sure, and rolled a 20.
It is one of those light up d20s that blink with a bright LED when they roll a 20 to add to the moment. It was hilarious!
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[translation]Well Done!![/translation]At Brewfest this weekend, I even used the trick of picking up a large number of dice and rolling them for damage; fortunately for the players, only the black dice counted! ;)That good sir, is a rat bastard thing to do!
Oh you Canucks and your weird English usage. Amusing to no end...
I have a one-player campaign, and it is somewhat random who is rolling for a particular event, especially when there are a lot of NPCs on the PC side. We went through a whole fight recently where (for no particular reason) the player rolled all of Kyril's to-hit rolls and I rolled all of his damage rolls.
The rolls are therefore hopelessly open. If I want to fudge, which I very occasionally do, I need another approach.
I have a side thought about player cheating on dice. Sometimes it's just that a player is a poor sport or immature; but sometimes, especially if more than one player cheats or other players condone it, it's a sign that something is wrong in the campaign as a whole.
The first time I saw this, the GM was railroading the PCs into scenarios and then having them either rescued by NPCs or saved by bizarre strokes of fate. The players started to cheat (also to optimax) in the hopes of having more influence in the game. Anti-cheating measures didn't help at all, since the problem was structural. When cheating didn't improve matters, the players went into a bizarre tailspin of playing to lose, forcing the GM to do more and more outrageous things to save them, and the campaign died acrimoniously.
The second time, I was playing in an old AP and the GM was also running it for a different group. The game was, in both cases, *way* too hard--not only lethal but gruelling and discouraging for the players. My group just b****ed endlessly and finally abandoned the game. The other group cheated, rolling crits when they needed to. I have to say, I don't like this strategy, but they had more fun than I did. But again, the problem was structural, and anti-cheating measures would not have helped.
So, as an alternative to making rules about roll openness and so forth, it's worth trying to find out *why* your players might be cheating. Roll openness will help if it's "I'm just too tempted by having my character shine" but it won't help if "The game is so hard we have to cheat to survive" or "The game is so unfair we feel the need to strike back any way we can." Those need a different fix.
I roll in the open for everything and I prefer those that judge for me do the same.
This.
My PFS GM always rolls in the open. She may not always like the results, but she is always honest about how it comes out, and we all appreciate it. She sets a good example for everyone at the table, and a clear expectation of openness. Plus, it keeps the suspense going. We know she's giving us the true luck of the roll, whether we like the results or not, and not whatever the GM feels like dishing out at the moment. I know everyone at the table appreciates her rolling transparency.
I've had a few GMs roll everything behind a screen, and I've seen it become a problem when characters start dying off, and no one got to verify the rolls that led to their death. A little tension can lead to ugly situations after that sort of thing. Open rolling builds trust, hidden rolling can take trust away.
Venture-Captain, Ireland—Belfast
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I tried adopting the methods encouraged in this thread in a recent game. Rolling everything in the open, letting the PCs roll their own trap finding attempts etc..
I didn't feel that it added anything TBH.
Mainly it made little difference except to allow them to know when e.g. a perception roll should have found something if it was there.
I felt rather powerless when a run of dice rolls took the party to the edge of a TPK in what should have been a straight forward encounter, gobbling up irreplaceable game resources and limited real time.
I think I will return to rolling both in the open and behind a screen as the mood takes me.
My players know I will kill them when the opportunity to do so within the spirit and the rules of the game arises. But only then. They suspect I'd enjoy it rather too much which is a misconception I encourage!
W
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I was running a brand new group, new to both Pathfinder itself and to organized play. In our very first encounter in our very first adventure the dice turned a very straight forward fight into a fight that almost TPKed them It did take away from the fun of both the encounter and the rest of the module when I crited 4 out of the first 5 rolls and beat down the entire party so that they had to blow all their healing just to survive the first fight. One character spent the next 2 encounters hiding at 2 HP so that he wouldn't die. Everyone understood that it wasn't anything that I did but all the same if I had been rolling behind a screen I would have fudged at least a few of the crits into normal hits. When the die is that terrible it does have the ability to take the fun out of a game.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I find it a problem rolling in the open since observant players can easily deduce the capabilities of their opponent that way.
Is this really a problem in your area? Not asking whether it happens, just whether it's actually a bad thing.
For example, I watched my GM roll a natural 18, ask me if a 25 hit, and I said "no". Had the die been hidden, we'd have just moved on. But since everyone saw that a natural 18 missed me, there was much cheering and the GM and I fist-bumped in honor of my awesome AC.
Seems like a positive thing, rather than a negative thing. At least in my own experience.
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I find it a problem rolling in the open since observant players can easily deduce the capabilities of their opponent that way.Is this really a problem in your area? Not asking whether it happens, just whether it's actually a bad thing.
For example, I watched my GM roll a natural 18, ask me if a 25 hit, and I said "no". Had the die been hidden, we'd have just moved on. But since everyone saw that a natural 18 missed me, there was much cheering and the GM and I fist-bumped in honor of my awesome AC.
Seems like a positive thing, rather than a negative thing. At least in my own experience.
Depends on how the players handle it. I've seen tables of people who completely changed their tactics based on a single visable roll.
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Seems like a positive thing, rather than a negative thing. At least in my own experience.
Dice values are metagame info, which a player has no 'right' to use in a roleplaying setting. If you know an 18 won't hit you, you know you have at least a 90% chance of not being hit.. and thus can use that hard data to weigh the risk/reward of more aggressive/risky actions you wouldn't have otherwise considered had you known the NPC was so unlikely to hit.
EDIT: Ninjad :D
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Seems like a positive thing, rather than a negative thing. At least in my own experience.Dice values are metagame info, which a player has no 'right' to use in a roleplaying setting. If you know an 18 won't hit you, you know you have at least a 90% chance of not being hit.. and thus can use that hard data to weigh the risk/reward of more aggressive/risky actions you wouldn't have otherwise considered had you known the NPC was so unlikely to hit.
EDIT: Ninjad :D
Maybe I've just got more honest players in my area. ;)
Of course, in my example, being nigh-unhittable is one of that character's specialties, so it wasn't exactly big news. Oh well.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Depends on how the players handle it. I've seen tables of people who completely changed their tactics based on a single visable roll.
Clint, I suppose the question is whether a typical PC fighter can discern between the following situations:
- An opponent of moderate skill and human-level strength, who tags you after several clumsy attempts.
- An opponent well-versed in his weapon's capabilities, although still of human-level strength, who initiates an attack pattern against you; he's encouraged, and maybe a little surprised, that it got through your defenses.
- A fighter of average skill. You blocked his shot with your shield, but he didn't care, shoving it out of his way by pure muscle with enough momentum left over to cut through your chain mail.
An 18 on the die roll with a +7 attack bonus sounds like #1. A 7 on the die roll with a +18 attack bonus sounds like #2. Given that datum, a PC might very well change tactics for good in-character reasons.
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I don't like rolling out in the open...
I will throw out there though that there IS something to be said for throwing out in the open, even if it isn't for me.
I played at a table with a GM I didn't know who rolled everything out in the open.. and it did make for some additional anxiety as all I really DID know was that this GM wasn't gonna fudge unlucky-for-me dice ;)