-How exactly can you play an instrument AND fight at the same time? (Maintaining bardic performance is a free action).
Why would you want to both play an instrument and use a weapon?
For that why would you want to play an instrument during combat in the first place?To answer your question:
You could use natural weapons/unarmed strike when playing a hand-held instrument.
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But to use a bardic performance you kind of need to play an instrument if your speciality is instruments....
If you are asking for what is better to use for a bard, first thing is NOT to use an instrument as your main representation tool. Comedy, singing or oratory don't need a hand to work in combat (but I think there is a weapon doing music during combat, like Spear Totem or something like this...).
@Question
Don't use instruments for bardic perfomance? Using bardic perfomance doesn't even require you to have ranks in a perform skill iirc.
Im making some changes to my bard, and i was wondering about the following :
-Is arcane strike and ranged weapons a good combination?
As good as it is for melee. I consider it a really good feat, unless you need your swift action every round for something else.
-Which is better, extra performance or lingering performance?
Extra performance is the prerequisite for a feat from the factions guide which allows you to gain a +1 to all your performance effects that grant a bonus, and will allow you to actually maintain the performances for longer which will allow you to use saving finale and other spells like it more often.
Lingering performance is nice for simply giving your bonus every round. For my part, I like EP better.
-How exactly can you play an instrument AND fight at the same time? (Maintaining bardic performance is a free action).
Note to self: play guitar smashing grunge bard with improvised weapon feat.
Seriously, use singing, comedy, acting, dancing or oratory to get around the instrument requirement. I think wind instruments might include whistling.
-What are some examples of skills that inspire competence works with? Obviously stealth is out...but what about things like knowledge?
Personally, I like standing well away from the rogue while he works on a trap and mocking him, reminding him of how horrible the trap probably is. You could also use it to help another character with diplomacy or UMD, any skill really.
-Is there any particular reason to use inspire greatness over inspire courage?
Once you can use two performances with some of the higher level spells you will find inspire greatness to be a good second song. You can use it to bolster hitpoints of a dying party member from range, and if you keep starting and stopping the performance every round you can refresh the temp HP pool for a member of the party. Your fighter will thank you for that.
-What is the point of making enemies shaken/frightened when you could use inspire courage instead to let your party members kill them faster?
A frightened creature just runs away, doesn't damage the party. Let your range guys get a free win with this. I'd rather win slightly slower and not be hit, personally.
Perhaps when the bard ceases playing his instrument, draws his weapon and attacks, the notes which he had played continue to hang about and "play themselves." Bards are magical; I've always assumed their performances were infused with magical energy (they are considered SU, not EX). A free action to maintain the performance, as it plays itself, isn't much to ask for in a high-fantasy game.
I like dancing as the perform for my bards. Specifically...wuxia-ish performance combat dancing. Except they actually stab the opponent. >_> <_<
-Is arcane strike and ranged weapons a good combination?
A very good one, but not early on. +1 damage isn't a feat to get excited about; particularly when there are so many other great feats to grab. Wait until at least 5th level to grab arcane strike, maybe 10th.
-Which is better, extra performance or lingering performance?
You'd honestly be surprised at how far your bardic performances will go during the day. Extra performance will feel strong at first level, but quickly becomes worthless after level 7-8ish. I'd recommend against it unless a) you can retrain it later, or b) it's a prereq.
Lingering performance is fantastic depending on the build. If you keep in mind the action economy it can be great for getting more bang for your bardic buck. It becomes particularly useful after 13th level when music is a swift action. I've always enjoyed it on my bard because it allows me to freely keep my combat buffs up and never hesitate to offer an inspire competence or fascinate/suggestion in the duller moments. It's not a great choice for some archetypes though, particularly the Sandman. But for a standard bard? Gold. Usually.
-What are some examples of spells/effects that countersong/distraction work against? For distraction, i assume this can be used to give a new "disbelief" roll to party members?
Countersong/distraction is a near worthless ability. If you ever use it, it'll likely be once (without a liberal interpretation, that is). Harpies/other bards/enchanters/etc. are all good opponents for countersong.
As for distraction, you can only give them a disbelief roll if they have a real reason to disbelieve it (interaction). Toss a rock through a figment and then get a distraction going.
-How exactly can you play an instrument AND fight at the same time? (Maintaining bardic performance is a free action).
Get creative and work with you DM. A percussion bard might use the sounds of the battlefield to create his music: his sword against a shield, his boot in the hard dirt, etc. An archer bard might enchant his bowstring to hum beautiful chords when fired. It all comes down to practicality, though. If a bard wants to be a combat performer with an instrument we can look to history to show us how it's done: play your instrument, but don't fight.
-What are some examples of skills that inspire competence works with? Obviously stealth is out...but what about things like knowledge?
Knowledges: probably not. There's no action associated with a knowledge check, so there's no point at which the bard would actually use the perform skill. Your DM may disagree. Stealth is obviously out, but past that I think anything else could be viable [/i]if you attempted it intelligently.[/i]
Lyric free performances like percussion or keyboard could easily be justified: "Focus on the music. Shut everything else out and let your mind go blank. Good, now concentrate. Let your skills take over." Percussion might perhaps be the very best skill for this sort of thing, because you could pass of finger tapping as a nervous tic and apply inspire competence on things like bluff, diplomacy, or sleight of hand.
-Is there any particular reason to use inspire greatness over inspire courage?
In a particularly tough battle the temporary HP can be a real boon, especially after 13th level. Just stop and start the performance again each turn to refresh the HP. As mentioned earlier it's also good in conjunction with high level spells that allow you to do multiple performances.
It's also worth noting that the spell doesn't give you temporary HP; it gives you temporary hit dice. If an ability requires the enemy have fewer HD than you it's a good candidate for that person. Additionally, it's great for summoned creatures/animal companions/familiars/etc. that have special abilities (like poison) that gain their DC from hit dice. It's only a +1 to DC, but every little bit helps when the party is on the line.
-What is the point of making enemies shaken/frightened when you could use inspire courage instead to let your party members kill them faster?
Frightened might be a little lame, but it's great for breaking up a party if your team gets overwhelmed. It's even better for clearing off the mooks that managed to swarm your poorly defended friends.
Shaken is actually a spectacular ability that gets overlooked too often for my taste. If an enemy is subject to fear effects it's a no save effect that causes the enemy to take a -2 to just about everything, up to and including saves and attack rolls. You're starting performances as a move action by the time this ability rolls around, so you can apply a -2 penalty to an enemy's saves before sending off that great spell you picked up last level. It also benefits your allied casters, and any magic items that might allow a save as well.
Ever seen a movie where the hero goes badass on the enemy without spilling his wineglass or whatever? That is how I imagine a bard can play an instrument as a free action in combat. This is something you should workout with your GM though, he/she may like not that idea.
For the countersong/distraction question, download this and search sonic, language-dependent, illusion (pattern) and illusion (figment). Other things that I can think of off the top of my head are harpy’s song and frightening howl.
I’d argue that inspire competence works with any skill, even stealth in some situations. Unfortunately this is just one of those things you’ve got to work out with the GM case by case. I think of it as moral support for most skills, but it could be flavored differently depending on the skill/situation. For knowledges it could be like that scene in mysteries where the sidekick says something offhand that causes the genius investigator to kiss them and say, “you’re a genius”. Or the soothing music allows for better concentration.For stealthing it could be flavored as using the performance to distract the guards as the rogue sneaks by them.
It is hard to give advice on when debuffing/control effects are better than mo’ damage mo’ damage because it is more art than science. An obvious example would be when the party is outnumbered by low HP, but hard hitting mooks. The only rules of thumb I can think of are: When action economy is on the enemies’ side. When getting hit is particularly devastating. When your damage plus isn’t going to make a significant enough difference – for example only the fighter’s damage will be buffed because everyone else is using wands.
Edit: Oh yeah, that negative to saves is pretty awesome too. Can’t believe I forgot that:P
Im making some changes to my bard, and i was wondering about the following :
-Is arcane strike and ranged weapons a good combination?
-Which is better, extra performance or lingering performance?
-What are some examples of spells/effects that countersong/distraction work against? For distraction, i assume this can be used to give a new "disbelief" roll to party members?
-How exactly can you play an instrument AND fight at the same time? (Maintaining bardic performance is a free action).
-What are some examples of skills that inspire competence works with? Obviously stealth is out...but what about things like knowledge?
-Is there any particular reason to use inspire greatness over inspire courage?
-What is the point of making enemies shaken/frightened when you could use inspire courage instead to let your party members kill them faster?
Yes it is.
Lingering. It can effectively triple your performances per day.
I wouldn't bother with countersong / distraction...very, very situational.
You don't need to use an instrument to do bardic performance. It's like rage. It just turns on when you want it to. This was a conscious decision to not make bards suck.
Ask your GM. Personally, I'd say no on Knowledge.
No.
Dirge of Doom is great for spellcasters, since it lowers the saving throws of those affected by 2. Frightened can just end combats. It's not combat anymore if they're running away!
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You DO NOT need to use an instrument to do bardic performance. It's like rage. It just turns on when you want it to. This was a conscious decision to not make bards suck.
This ^^
Everything else is already explained in the above comments but i wanted to make sure you understood that. The rules changed in Pathfinder. Bard's mechanics are diferent now. You don't use the perform skill for bardic performance anymore at all.
You can even use your bardic performances if you dont have a single point spend in any perform skill! Read the ability again, you will see.
"Versatile Performance" is the reason bards but points into perform skills nowadays, and its also the reason why you see so much people with oratory and comedy as skills.
You don't need to use an instrument to do bardic performance.
I'm a little disappointed to see more than 10 responses before somebody pointed this out.
Inspire courage does not require you to play your instrument.
Some Bardic performances require you to perform (like countersong, distraction), those abilities always say so.
Also, in regards to your Questions, Question, here are some answers:
You don't need to use an instrument to do bardic performance.
I'm a little disappointed to see more than 10 responses before somebody pointed this out.
Inspire courage does not require you to play your instrument.
Some Bardic performances require you to perform (like countersong, distraction), those abilities always say so.
Also, in regards to your Questions, Question, here are some answers:
Leo had the right idea on post #5....I thought I'd just reiterate. But yes, in the core Bard there are only two abilities that require using performance...and those are both so rarely used it's not even worth it to put points into Perform, unless you want to use Versatile Performance.
I would argue that the right inspire competence can be used with stealth depending on the performance type. Say you are doing an imitation of a cat and how they move, that might inspire a stealther to move more cat like. I would say all of the skills if you can make a good description of what you are doing to inspire it should be a go.
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I would argue that the right inspire competence can be used with stealth depending on the performance type. Say you are doing an imitation of a cat and how they move, that might inspire a stealther to move more cat like. I would say all of the skills if you can make a good description of what you are doing to inspire it should be a go.
definitely!!!
to me the Bard is always about ingenuity and imagination! and never forget that cantrips are your friend... you can use them in the most inventive ways.
that and a winning smile will get you very far as the Bard IMO
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I would argue that the right inspire competence can be used with stealth depending on the performance type. Say you are doing an imitation of a cat and how they move, that might inspire a stealther to move more cat like. I would say all of the skills if you can make a good description of what you are doing to inspire it should be a go.
Am I the only one envisioning a Bardic Mime?
I would argue that the right inspire competence can be used with stealth depending on the performance type. Say you are doing an imitation of a cat and how they move, that might inspire a stealther to move more cat like. I would say all of the skills if you can make a good description of what you are doing to inspire it should be a go.Am I the only one envisioning a Bardic Mime?
I can see a wall of force performance working so well for this one.
I can see a wall of force performance working so well for this one.I would argue that the right inspire competence can be used with stealth depending on the performance type. Say you are doing an imitation of a cat and how they move, that might inspire a stealther to move more cat like. I would say all of the skills if you can make a good description of what you are doing to inspire it should be a go.Am I the only one envisioning a Bardic Mime?
LOL!
I would say a mime Bard should be able to increase the DC of disbelieving an illusionary wall as well.
OK - enough silliness, back on topic.
Hmm which would be more important...14 str or 14 int?
For what sort of bard? A bard who wants to inflict more damage in ranged combat, or a bard who wants to excel further in skills and knowledges?
Hmm which would be more important...14 str or 14 int?
If you wish to do any amount of damage, 14 Str.
Bards can make up skill points by putting points into Perform skills. Versatile Performance effectively turns those 1 skill points into 3 skill points.
Hmm which would be more important...14 str or 14 int?
Depends.
If using melee weapons then the Str, definitely.
If archer, then the +2 damage will help early on, but it won't be much difference at levels 10+. Once you can get inspire courage, arcane strike, deadly aim, and good hope all rolling that +2 damage will be dwarfed by the other damage bonuses you'll have. And you will probably be missing the skill points as even with 6 sps a lvl and versatile performance you can never have enough sps.