| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Master Summoner. 7 SLA summons at first level is powerful. Especially with an eidolon.
I think your decision is probably best based on what you want to focus on. I take it from the omission of Master Summoner that you want to focus on your eidolon(s) rather than your ability to summon monsters -- the master summoner is best for summoned monsters, but your eidolon is gimped for that purpose.
For the synthesist, your eidolon is basically a super powered suit that enables you to transform into a monster. It has the advantage of reducing the summoner's vulnerability (as he cannot be targeted separately from his eidolon) but limits your actions (as the eidolon is not a separate creature).
A straight summoner gives your eidolon the most power possible as a separate creature. Its strength is the ability of your summoner and your eidolon to each take their own actions. Its weakness (shared with all non-synthesist archetypes) is that the summoner can be targeted separately.
A broodmaster compromises the combat capability of your eidolon for an increased number of actions, so it is most useful if you want to focus on your separate eidolons being skill monkeys rather than combatants.
If you are new to the game, there is a note in Ultimate Magic that you may want to take to heart. The broodmaster and the master summoner can both give you an unwieldy number of creatures to control, which can make things tough for both you and the GM. It is much easier to take your turn in a timely manner when you have no more than two combatants under your control.
I am starting a 1st level character in a 15 point buy game and I want to be a summoner but I can't decide which of the 3 above types to build so I'm asking advice which one is better and why? Also any build help will also be appreciated.
I'd stay away from Broodmaster (and for that matter, Master Summoner) unless you've got a very small party. The number of actions you get as these archetypes is off-putting to the rest of the group.
Between synthesist and straight summoner:
Synthesist is best if you want a single super-powerful entity. You will act once per turn, but that action has all of the power behind both the summoner and the eidolon behind it.
Straight summoner is best if you want the most overall power. With this build, your Eidolon gets to play front-line fighter, while you Summoner plays battlefield-controller with spells. You get two actions per turn, and unlike the Synthesist, you 'll never have to choose between full attack OR spell casting, you get to do both every turn.
As cool as Broodmaster sounds I have yet to figure out how to make it work mechanically. Maybe with a heavy investment in teamwork feats or a few levels of inquisitor. Otherwise it's a lot of fluff and not much crunch.
I am starting a 1st level character in a 15 point buy game and I want to be a summoner but I can't decide which of the 3 above types to build so I'm asking advice which one is better and why? Also any build help will also be appreciated.
Depends on whatr you want:
Normal summoner:Great casters and have a strong pet monster: arcane druids in essence (without wildshape).
Synthesist:
Strong transformation creature (not as good as caster unless Bi-pedal): He-man, Ultraman, Under Dog, Booger man (snot funny, huh)
Master Summoner: a normal Summoner, but can't call as strong as pet monster, but better summoning. Ash Kethcher, Monster Rancher,
Brood Master: Weaker Pet monsters (better for skills/UMD).
If you ever think you want to play a Synthesist, just play a Druid instead. Or even Barbarian.
Summoner >>>>>>>>>>>> Synthesist
More action economy, more build options, constant access to spellcasting
So if it's down to regular summoner and synthesist which is better and why?
Well, would you prefer to have a big nasty beast or would you prefer to be a big nasty beast?
So if it's down to regular summoner and synthesist which is better and why?Well, would you prefer to have a big nasty beast or would you prefer to be a big nasty beast?
Why not play a Druid and have both?
So if it's down to regular summoner and synthesist which is better and why?Well, would you prefer to have a big nasty beast or would you prefer to be a big nasty beast? [/QUOTE/]
Well if I am in complete control of the big nasty beast then I guess I rather do whichever if morepiwerful/effective
I'd say play a standard summoner then. Action economy alone kicks serious butt. Plus if your eidion is killed you can start summoning monsters. Just be sure your summoner has something he can do, shoot a crossbow, a couple of offensive spells/wands, etc.
Why not play a Druid and have both?So if it's down to regular summoner and synthesist which is better and why?Well, would you prefer to have a big nasty beast or would you prefer to be a big nasty beast?
Because druids aren't the Guyver.
Straight summoners do have the advantage but I like my synthesists for what they can offer in terms of fun and combat. Plus it's very very hard to kill a synthesist.
Oh Joy, Cartigan is going to turn this thread into that annoying "Why play summoner when you can be a druid" thread.
Oh Joy, Cartigan is going to turn this thread into that annoying "Why play summoner when you can be a druid" thread.
Why play SYNTHESIST when you can play a Druid. Totally valid point and totally different than what you said.
So help me to create the best summoner or synthesist I can on a 15 point buy.
Summoners only actually need a 16 Charisma (Only get up to level 6 spells). Unlike other caster classes they don't actually rely on their casting stat, so you can effectively make a more rounded character without even trying to min max.
If you are playing as a human you can effectively buy a 14 CHA and bump it to 16 with the +2 human traits.
Give yourself some strength and dex. Strength to carry light armor, as your character is proficient with it, and dex for armor and ranged attacks. You will want a lot of constitution for hp and fort saves. You will want a decent Wisdom for fort saves. Hell, take a decent Int too because you only get 2+Int skills per level.
The only bad part about having a 16 Cha, is that you have less summon monster spell like ability casts per day, and maybe fewer extra spells that you can cast. In general, I have found that if I am relying on my summon monster SLA, something has gone very wrong in combat, or it is the morning and I don't want to use a level 2 spell to instantly summon the Eidolon.
Just keep in mind that you are not the star of the show, the eidolon is, so do what you can to get the eidolon better stats. Avoid the feat that says your Eidolon gets a +2 to one ability score for 10 minutes after you summon it. It is a horrible feat. It has been ruled that Augment Summoning only affects your summoned creatures but not the eidolon (Not even if you use the Summon Eidolon spell).
If you go natural attacks, for the eidolon, I recommend claw attacks, and the improved damage claw evolution followed by the Improved natural attack feat, which boosts claw damage from d4 to d6 to d8.
Alternatively:
If you make a multi-headed eidolon, you can give it enough bite attacks so that it will make a trip attack a number of times equal to its successful hits. Once the target is prone it is usually over.
Energy attacks is a great evolution, so are wings, and natural armor. If you make the eidolon skilled with use magic device he will have the best UMD in the entire group and you can give him a wand to use.
In short, the eidolon is incredibly versatile.
Also how does having bite attacks get you trip attacks?
Get the trip evolution. Works everytime you bite. Multiple heads, multiple bites, multiple trips. Make hima quadraped with pounce and you have the most awesoem hydra in the history of ever.
Eidolons in PFS are banned from taking Bestiary feats, by the specific rules of PFS. In general, it is allowed.
Why are Eidolons banned from taking Bestiary feats?
Not to open up an old can of worms, but Animal companions can, so why not Eidolons?
Eidolons in PFS are banned from taking Bestiary feats, by the specific rules of PFS. In general, it is allowed.Why are Eidolons banned from taking Bestiary feats?
Not to open up an old can of worms, but Animal companions can, so why not Eidolons?
Because the rules game is confusing and the Summoner specifically.
Because the rules game is confusing and the Summoner specifically.
I just want a big list of errata with the eidolon and the summoner in mind. I might make a new thread for it.