With Rise of the Rune Lords being released as an anniversary collection in one book at roughly $60, could we potentially see other adventure paths at a discounted price for buying the entire adventure path line with all 6 books at an equivalent price? With older adventure paths having been out and me having never jumped on the bandwagon, I was hoping to see the APs at better prices.
Paizo intends to never do this again.
That is not only don't they have plans to do it again, they have plans not to. There's a thread with heavy discussion of the topic but in a nutshell: current and foreseeable future circumstances make updating and/or binding other APs a product that is likely to be harmful to Paizo (and therefore us). They get it it's a "cool" idea, but there are a bunch of business reasons why it shouldn't happen.
They won't outright say "no" simply because if an alien invasion happens and the aliens demand that Crimson Throne gets updated and collected or they'll destroy humanity, Paizo will likely cave in. But circumstances have to significantly change from known reality for such a thing to be entertained.
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The first time Paizo put together a compilation AP (IIRC, Shackled City, the first Dungeon magazine AP), they said they would never do it again. So while it will probably happen again, it's not going to be for a number of years and it will continue to be an isolated case.
A great deal of Paizo's success is due to the AP subscriptions. That provides them with a steady cash flow which helps to counteract the spikes in revenue they have when hardbacks are released. Most of their expenses are consistent from month to month while revenue is variable as new products are released.
If Paizo were to routinely release AP's as compilations, it would disrupt the flow of subscription money as people would wait for the compilation. I tend to believe that they are making more money from 6 individual monthly AP's at $20 each than from a compilation at $60. I suspect that the compilation at $60 would be unprofitable for Paizo if the costs weren't covered by the original subscription income.
With Rise of the Rune Lords being released as an anniversary collection in one book at roughly $60, could we potentially see other adventure paths at a discounted price for buying the entire adventure path line with all 6 books at an equivalent price? With older adventure paths having been out and me having never jumped on the bandwagon, I was hoping to see the APs at better prices.Paizo intends to never do this again.
They get it it's a "cool" idea, but there are a bunch of business reasons why it shouldn't happen.
And the bolded statement above is one of the big reasons why they won't. Naturally, you're not required to jump on the bandwagon, but they can't afford for people to get used to saying, "I'd rather not spend the money now on APs when I can just wait for the discounted all-in-one to come out later."
APs are the big money-maker for Paizo. If people took on such a mentality, it could be incredibly detrimental to the company as a whole, making the lumped APs into one volume a very bad idea in the long and short term.
The hardcover RotR is a one-time, anniversary celebration book they're releasing. I own the whole AP already and am currently running it for my players, yet I still intend on buying this product. It's a great price for what you're getting. Enjoy this one. They're truly making it worth snatching up!
EDIT: I got ninja'd sieylianna . . . that'll teach me to leave my computer momentarily!
I think if they keep it solely to APs that are long out of print and can't be found at your FLGS, it basically gives them a second chance to sell to people who weren't in the game before.
Our PF group has only been playing since the current AP, Jade Regent, has been released, so if we want to play Rise of the Rune Lords, Kingmaker, or any other stuff, we're SOL.
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RotRL is the only one that is out of print. You can still order copies of all the other series. And two of the RotRL editions are still available, so you are really only looking for the other three (#1, #3, #5).
Other than the original AP's that existing in Dungeon, RotRL is kind of Paizo's first foray after separating from WotC. This gives it special significance. Not to mention, it is really well written.
If you have a current subscription to the AP line, the discount applies to back orders as well. At $16.99 per issue, you save roughly $20 on a complete set. Not to mention that will hit the $100 price point for a $10 shipping credit. So it's like save $30.
I am sure that Paizo will release another compilation again the future. But, IMO, they should continue with the current process. No need to have an official policy of re-releasing their out-of-print product in anthology form as soon as it is sold out. I cherish my Shackled City compilation and I'm sure the same will be said about this one. Too many of these and they would loose their luster.
Last Black Friday, Paizo sold AP bundles for significant discounts. I think Second Darkness was 70% off. They may do that again this year.
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Anguish and others actually hit the nail pretty firmly on the head hear - I'm really glad to see that folks get what's largely been our mantra regarding this product.
True facts, though. We have absolutely no plans to compile future APs. The Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition is a special project being done to celebrate the tenth anniversary of Paizo Publishing and the fifth anniversary of Pathfinder Adventure Path (not bad for a series where double digit volumes were once a lofty and outlandishly optimistic dream). On top of this, this project updates these adventures from a previous incarnation of the rules to a current one, along with tons of new content.
This is far, FAR more than merely taking dusty files, slapping them between two hardcovers, and hitting reprint.
To be totally up front with everyone: we rely on subscriptions to Pathfinder Adventure Path as a company (and as individuals with a desire to continue having food and shelter). Thus, for myriad reasons, we have no intention of creating compilations of past works with any regularity.
Folks should not take this as, "We will absolutely never ever, pinky swear promise do anything like this again." Who knows what we might do for our twentieth anniversary or what the next huge hit might be? We try not to limit ourselves with "never evers." But we have no intention of getting into the repackaging of past APs business - if you want an AP, I'd suggest subscribing to it and getting when its releasing so you're guaranteed a copy, not taking the risk on volumes going out of print or that maybe we'll be around to do a compilation for our 35th's anniversary.
Also, remember, we pride ourselves on not being lame. With the Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition we're giving this series quite an overhaul - with a lot of new updates, revisions, and other content (but also without a number of things folks got the first time around). Any compilation of anything we ever do will have a significant amount of new and revised content, meaning not only that it'll be a special thing, but that it adds to our beleaguered staff's sisyphean workload. Rest assured we're not looking for new ways to keep our staffers in the office on weekends - we do that enough already - so products in excess of our regular subscription lines will be few are far between.
I don't recall saying with Shackled City that we'd never compile another Adventure Path, but even if we did, I think the lay of the land has changed enough in the past half-decade that most folks will forgive us as a company that prints dozens of books a year for not strictly adhering to the plans of a magazine company whose hardcovers you could count on one hand--twice. That said, and with everything above in mind, never say never - but feel free to say almost never. We've only done this once before and that was a very different beast with very different goals. The Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition is going to be a gigantic undertaking and not one that we're ever going to take lightly and nothing we want to do with any regularity. But that's not the same as promising we'll never do a compilation product again... and we do way more than just Adventure Paths, after all.
Also, just let me drop a link to the Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition page. That's got several more details on it. For folks concerned about pricing, though, do remember that the compilation focuses on the adventures and some highly relevant supplemental material, but that a volume of Pathfinder AP includes significantly more than that. Those considering getting back volumes of Pathfinder Adventure Path will always have much more content than just an adventure to look forward to.
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I wouldn't be too surprised to see the Curse of the Crimson Throne updated for the 10 year AP anniversary or in 5 more years. I could honestly see any and all of the 3.5 AP's eventually done one day. Once they start selling out or enough years has passed.
What you won't see is them doing it often enough to give people the impression they can just not order the AP's and wait for the compilation book to come out. Of course Wesley likely knows even better than I. :) I am just speculating on a personal level.
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I'd keep an eye out for any more sales like last year's Black Friday, but really do trust that Paizo doesn't intend to do another compilation like Rise of the Runelords. RotR is an iconic venture into Golarion and Varisia that set the tone for their new world. None of the APs since then have been nearly as "back to the roots" of D&D as Runelords, nor are they as essential to the lore of Golarion.
If I had to guess, the confusion regarding Shackled City likely stems from the statement that Paizo legally cannot reprint Age of Worms or Savage Tide. Therefore they will never reprint the Dungeon adventure paths, because they can't.
But that's not the same as promising we'll never do a compilation product again... and we do way more than just Adventure Paths, after all.
You heard it here first, folks! Schneider said we'll be seeing all three Books of the Damned under one hard cover soon!
But that's not the same as promising we'll never do a compilation product again... and we do way more than just Adventure Paths, after all.You heard it here first, folks! Schneider said we'll be seeing all three Books of the Damned under one hard cover soon!
** spoiler omitted **
Ha! There's not doubt I'd personally love to have a big ol' one-tome Book of the Damned that standardizes all three presentations and adds a ton, but only a good long time after we've milked the Book of the Damned series for all its worth - and I'm not convinced we have quite yet. So, ya never know!
Ha! There's not doubt I'd personally love to have a big ol' one-tome Book of the Damned that standardizes all three presentations and adds a ton, but only a good long time after we've milked the Book of the Damned series for all its worth - and I'm not convinced we have quite yet. So, ya never know!
You clearly need to wait until you have over 10 volumes so that it can rival the Tome of Horrors in mass.
Ha! There's not doubt I'd personally love to have a big ol' one-tome Book of the Damned that standardizes all three presentations and adds a ton, but only a good long time after we've milked the Book of the Damned series for all its worth - and I'm not convinced we have quite yet. So, ya never know!You clearly need to wait until you have over 10 volumes so that it can rival the Tome of Horrors in mass.
One vote for Book of the Damned: Rakshasa, The False Divine
They won't outright say "no" simply because if an alien invasion happens and the aliens demand that Crimson Throne gets updated and collected or they'll destroy humanity, Paizo will likely cave in.
Of course, it's far more likely that they will gather the smartest of us and force them to pair off and mate continuously.
Oh....
Our PF group has only been playing since the current AP, Jade Regent, has been released, so if we want to play Rise of the Rune Lords, Kingmaker, or any other stuff, we're SOL.
Beyond the fact that only Runelords is out of print (at least as far as I know and what previous posters stated) - and that one is being overhauled - there are always PDFs. They never go out of print.
It's not as nice as having the print version (or the print+pdf bundle), but it's better than nothing, Running solely from a PDF isn't so bad, and you could always print it out yourself to have at least some form of paper in hands (stick to black and white and it won't be that expensive).
With Rise of the Rune Lords being released as an anniversary collection in one book at roughly $60, could we potentially see other adventure paths at a discounted price for buying the entire adventure path line with all 6 books at an equivalent price? With older adventure paths having been out and me having never jumped on the bandwagon, I was hoping to see the APs at better prices.Paizo intends to never do this again.
They get it it's a "cool" idea, but there are a bunch of business reasons why it shouldn't happen.
And the bolded statement above is one of the big reasons why they won't. Naturally, you're not required to jump on the bandwagon, but they can't afford for people to get used to saying, "I'd rather not spend the money now on APs when I can just wait for the discounted all-in-one to come out later."
APs are the big money-maker for Paizo. If people took on such a mentality, it could be incredibly detrimental to the company as a whole, making the lumped APs into one volume a very bad idea in the long and short term.
The hardcover RotR is a one-time, anniversary celebration book they're releasing. I own the whole AP already and am currently running it for my players, yet I still intend on buying this product. It's a great price for what you're getting. Enjoy this one. They're truly making it worth snatching up!
EDIT: I got ninja'd sieylianna . . . that'll teach me to leave my computer momentarily!
I myself would be running RotRL now if I did know that the anniversary was coming out AND there was a set of minis for it. Instead I am running Legacy of Fire and Carrion Crown. I figure that will probably get me to June, and I can run RotRL.
I finished CotCT and finally have my own campaign established for Golarion (some of my FR history I ported over, but now I have a group of Characters that have now become heavy hitting NPC's in the world.)
Our PF group has only been playing since the current AP, Jade Regent, has been released, so if we want to play Rise of the Rune Lords, Kingmaker, or any other stuff, we're SOL.Beyond the fact that only Runelords is out of print (at least as far as I know and what previous posters stated) - and that one is being overhauled - there are always PDFs. They never go out of print.
It's not as nice as having the print version (or the print+pdf bundle), but it's better than nothing, Running solely from a PDF isn't so bad, and you could always print it out yourself to have at least some form of paper in hands (stick to black and white and it won't be that expensive).
That's true ... I am considering that.
CEO
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Last Black Friday, Paizo sold AP bundles for significant discounts. I think Second Darkness was 70% off. They may do that again this year.
It wasn't 70% off. Not even close. :) I think it was something like 30% off. And only on the pre-Pathfinder RPG APs. And the bundles had more than just the AP volumes. There were map folios and Player's Guides and related Campaign Setting books in the bundle as well.
-Lisa
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Chief Technical Officer
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I don't recall saying with Shackled City that we'd never compile another Adventure Path...
Quite the contrary. While we still had a license to publish Dungeon magazine, I remember telling plenty of people who asked if we were planning an Age of Worms complication that we'd most likely do one if Wizards would approve the project. Only when the license went away did we tell people that we'd probably never be able to compile those Dungeon APs.
Note that there's a pretty big business difference between compiling a Dungeon AP and compiling a Pathfinder AP. The Shackled City AP was originally released in 11 issues of Dungeon, which, as a magazine, was printed in quantities generally intended to sell out within a month; once a retailer had sold out of an issue, there was no way for him to buy more. Compiling it was really the only way to give an AP any kind of permanence at the time. Pathfinder AP books, on the other hand, are intended to have permanence from the start; any game store can order a copy of any volume of Curse of the Crimson Throne (that's PF 7–12) *today*.
Also, in Dungeon, each AP installment was merely one out of three adventures in each $6.99 issue, so when compiling it into a $59.95 volume, we were charging only a little less than the original purchasers had paid, but delivering only a third of the content those original purchasers had. Essentially, buyers paid a premium for the compilation, so that didn't have much potential for undercutting sales of new issues. That's not the case with the APs.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Last Black Friday, Paizo sold AP bundles for significant discounts. I think Second Darkness was 70% off. They may do that again this year.It wasn't 70% off. Not even close. :) I think it was something like 30% off. And only on the pre-Pathfinder RPG APs. And the bundles had more than just the AP volumes. There were map folios and Player's Guides and related Campaign Setting books in the bundle as well.
-Lisa
During that sale, the Second Darkness bundle was $84. It contained print editions of PF 13–18, plus the Player Companion; those seven books had a total retail value of $129.93, so it was about 35% off cover price.
However, note that if you had subscribed to the AP while Second Darkness was being released, you'd have paid $83.94 for those six volumes, plus (with your Pathfinder Advantage discount) another $8.49 for the Player Companion... *but* you'd have also received free PDFs of the AP volumes—another $83.94 in value—while the bundle didn't include any PDFs.
Believe me, when we run sales, we are always *very* careful to price things so that people who subscribed at the time got a better deal. We value their commit to us, so we reward it.
If there's one message you should take away from all this, it's that if you're interested in the content we're publishing, you shouldn't wait for a reprint or a sale—you should subscribe.
Hmm, now I'm wondering what my used APs would go for on eBay.
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Last Black Friday, Paizo sold AP bundles for significant discounts. I think Second Darkness was 70% off. They may do that again this year.It wasn't 70% off. Not even close. :) I think it was something like 30% off. And only on the pre-Pathfinder RPG APs. And the bundles had more than just the AP volumes. There were map folios and Player's Guides and related Campaign Setting books in the bundle as well.
-Lisa
During that sale, the Second Darkness bundle was $84. It contained print editions of PF 13–18, plus the Player Companion; those seven books had a total retail value of $129.93, so it was about 35% off cover price.
However, note that if you had subscribed to the AP while Second Darkness was being released, you'd have paid $83.94 for those six volumes, plus (with your Pathfinder Advantage discount) another $8.49 for the Player Companion... *but* you'd have also received free PDFs of the AP volumes—another $83.94 in value—while the bundle didn't include any PDFs.
Believe me, when we run sales, we are always *very* careful to price things so that people who subscribed at the time got a better deal. We value their commit to us, so we reward it.
If there's one message you should take away from all this, it's that if you're interested in the content we're publishing, you shouldn't wait for a reprint or a sale—you should subscribe.
Plus $84 in a lump sum is more of a pain than $84 over 6 months.
However, note that if you had subscribed to the AP while Second Darkness was being released, you'd have paid $83.94 for those six volumes, plus (with your Pathfinder Advantage discount) another $8.49 for the Player Companion... *but* you'd have also received free PDFs of the AP volumes—another $83.94 in value—while the bundle didn't include any PDFs.
Wasn't the Pathfinder Companion (not yet a Player Companion) for Second Darkness a freebie for AP subscribers at the time?
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Chief Technical Officer
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Wasn't the Pathfinder Companion (not yet a Player Companion) for Second Darkness a freebie for AP subscribers at the time?
However, note that if you had subscribed to the AP while Second Darkness was being released, you'd have paid $83.94 for those six volumes, plus (with your Pathfinder Advantage discount) another $8.49 for the Player Companion... *but* you'd have also received free PDFs of the AP volumes—another $83.94 in value—while the bundle didn't include any PDFs.
You know, you're right, it was! So subscribers got *everything* in the bundle for $.06 less than people who bought it in the sale, plus they got the PDFs for free.
During that sale, the Second Darkness bundle was $84. It contained print editions of PF 13–18, plus the Player Companion; those seven books had a total retail value of $129.93, so it was about 35% off cover price.
However, note that if you had subscribed to the AP while Second Darkness was being released, you'd have paid $83.94 for those six volumes, plus (with your Pathfinder Advantage discount) another $8.49 for the Player Companion... *but* you'd have also received free PDFs of the AP volumes—another $83.94 in value—while the bundle didn't include any PDFs.
Believe me, when we run sales, we are always *very* careful to price things so that people who subscribed at the time got a better deal. We value their commit to us, so we reward it.
If there's one message you should take away from all this, it's that if you're interested in the content we're publishing, you shouldn't wait for a reprint or a sale—you should subscribe.
As Lisa said, you also received the Map Folio for Second Darkness and "Into the Darklands" Campaign Setting book as well. I know this because I bought that particular bundle. =)
You know, you're right, it was! So subscribers got *everything* in the bundle for $.06 less than people who bought it in the sale, plus they got the PDFs for free.Wasn't the Pathfinder Companion (not yet a Player Companion) for Second Darkness a freebie for AP subscribers at the time?
However, note that if you had subscribed to the AP while Second Darkness was being released, you'd have paid $83.94 for those six volumes, plus (with your Pathfinder Advantage discount) another $8.49 for the Player Companion... *but* you'd have also received free PDFs of the AP volumes—another $83.94 in value—while the bundle didn't include any PDFs.
The world is a mollusc of our choice!
Plus, we got it considerably sooner than those bulky guys.
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Quite the contrary. While we still had a license to publish Dungeon magazine, I remember telling plenty of people who asked if we were planning an Age of Worms complication that we'd most likely do one if Wizards would approve the project. Only when the license went away did we tell people that we'd probably never be able to compile those Dungeon APs.
A Freudian slip, there, Vic?
I would have been all over an AOW hardcover, though the lack of one did force me to be pro-active, and fill up the gaps with my own material, which (if I may blow my own trumpet) caused me to grow as a GM.
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Chief Technical Officer
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As Lisa said, you also received the Map Folio for Second Darkness and "Into the Darklands" Campaign Setting book as well. I know this because I bought that particular bundle. =)
Ah... looks like the bundle I was talking about was for our 2009 Black Friday sale; the one you're talking about was for 2010 (and also included the Item Card set and Flip-Mat: Darklands). That one was $185.89 worth of stuff for $84.99, so about 55% off. Still, given the value of the PDFs, subscribers at the time got a better deal.
Will there be AP bundles this year, too?
I'm thinkg about buying the whole Curse of the Crimson Throne.
Will there be AP bundles this year, too?
I'm thinkg about buying the whole Curse of the Crimson Throne.
They generally don't announce sales ahead of time, as it discourages purchases in the meantime, but I would bet against there being a print bundle at least, since two of the volumes are in the "get it before it's gone" blog: fewer than 500 of AP #9 and fewer than 250 of #8.