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Do I have to make the check against both a mount and its rider?
* If no, do I make the check against the mount, the rider, or the higher CMD?
* If yes, do I make one attack and apply the results to both, or one attack each?
If a check has to be made against the mount, can a rider with Mounted combat then make a Ride check to negate it? This seems quite powerful if a creature already has to beat two CMDs.
If a mounted charger with Greater Overrun and a lance causes its target to become prone from the overrun, will it deal double damage from the lance on the attack of opportunity?
Do I have to make the check against both a mount and its rider?
* If no, do I make the check against the mount, the rider, or the higher CMD?
* If yes, do I make one attack and apply the results to both, or one attack each?If a check has to be made against the mount, can a rider with Mounted combat then make a Ride check to negate it? This seems quite powerful if a creature already has to beat two CMDs.
If a mounted charger with Greater Overrun and a lance causes its target to become prone from the overrun, will it deal double damage from the lance on the attack of opportunity?
1) I'm pretty sure you have to overrun both, since you are moving through their spaces.
2) I'm pretty sure you have to overrun each separately.
3) I'm pretty sure Mounted Combat can be used to negate it.
But then again, when was the last time you saw some dude overruning horses and their riders? I mean, really. :P
As to the mounted charger and the attack of opportunity, AFAIK you only get the enhanced damage on attacks that were made as part of a charge; which means the initial attack and possibly iterative attacks (if you have Pounce) but not attacks of opportunity.
However, this is going purely from memory and/or guessing; as I'm kinda sleepy and haven't bothered to research further. Maybe someone else will know for certain.
There might be some obscure rule somewhere that says only T-Rexes can overrun both a mount and their rider.
Are you a T-Rex?
I want the Overrun, actually. This creature has an ability that keys off of performing an Overrun -- it isn't really about wanting to get past creatures.
It looks pretty grim trying to accomplish this, though. So far I'm seeing that it has to make a check against the rider, a check against the mount, and then the rider can make a Ride check to negate the attack, else Overrun fails against everybody (after all, I can't justify trampling creatures when I'm forced to stop before I enter their square).
Technically you can only overrun a single target per overrun attempt. So you could not overrun a mounted combatant.
As a GM I'd probably let you overrun them both. And as its not an attack roll mounted combat would be irrelevant.
If you get an AoO while your mount is charging then yeah I'd give you the double damage. Remember the only way to use overrun on a charge is with the charge through feat though.
Now my quandary is realizing that this character can't technically benefit from the lance, because as a Centaur, it's not a 'mounted character'. I hate, hate, hate handwaving rules like this but I'm thinking of making an exception because I can't see a centaur with a lance being less effective than a mounted combatant. I'm not giving it any more of the ridiculous damage feats anyway.
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** spoiler omitted **Technically you can only overrun a single target per overrun attempt. So you could not overrun a mounted combatant.
As a GM I'd probably let you overrun them both. And as its not an attack roll mounted combat would be irrelevant.
If you get an AoO while your mount is charging then yeah I'd give you the double damage. Remember the only way to use overrun on a charge is with the charge through feat though.
Proficiency is not a problem (class levels): It's that one deals double damage with a lance when one is on a mount and charging. The designed creature is not mounted when it charges, it merely has a similar dynamic.
Separately, methinks.
How often do you see a horse and rider tackled, grappled, overran, or otherwise CMB-ed? Compare to, how often do you see a rider tackled, grappled, overran, or otherwise CMB-ed off his horse while the horse keeps going, his give-a-damn CMB-ed off of him with the rider?
Sure a roc can swoop down and pick up mount and rider. But a big dog can tackle the rider off of his mount while the mount runs off unaffected.
I'd rule you can overrun mount and rider if you overrun the mount. But you have to beat their CMD then deal with the rider's feats. IF all the rolls go your way you can overrun the mount. Turns out rider is on the back of the mount. I'd let rider make a ride and/or acrobatics check dependent on the overrunner's CMD to jump off his mount. Otherwise you have a rider thrown from his mount or pinned under his mount or something else equally bad.
Of course you can always just overrun the rider. Then he's thrown off of his mount then ha-ha.
I'd definitely allow Centaurs to do double damage on a charge with a lance.
Agreed. It's the speed of the charge, really.