It seems that if going for a TWF ninja with scout archetype, and the sap master feats too, with maybe offensive defense...taking a level of monk might be a good idea?
Bonus feat, Saves, unarmed strike, stunning fist, higher dice damage. Ability to get niceness out of monks robe later.
Anyway, I'm level 4 now, about to hit 5, feats I'm thinking of having ultimately are something like this:
Ancestral Relic - Wakazashi given by DM for backstory writeup.
1Human, weapon finesse - TWF
3Sap Adept
5Sap Master
7Leadership (Campaign flavor)
9Imp TWF
11Offensive Defense
13 -> and on, unsure from here.
Dodge/weapon focus and stuff seem like good fillers.
Anyway, this ninja, who's initial intention was to do some revenging based on the backstory, or in general just become a master assassin, is having a slight change in his view on things...1, he's traveling with a paladin who is proving to be pretty effective and insipring 2, keep having trouble apprehending anyone alive for questioning since they keep dying! (hah) I'd like to use unarmed attacks instead of saps since I like the idea better, which is why I'm trying to figure out where to get unarmed strike from. I could just get it from Ninja and then not take monk, though I'd be losing a trick (kinda).
I'm still not great at these fine details and the effect they'll have long term in the life of this character. Have to say though, I'm really liking the class!
As always, any extra advice definitely appreciated. And if you think I should take the level of monk, when? Or if just take imp unarmed, which level trick?
p.p.s.s - Anyone ever do a level of sorc with ninja? Seems to not be too bad of a dip...
(and if anyone has any good suggestions for wands and scrolls just for some itemization as I go up in levels, that'd be great too!)
Oh, and if it makes a difference, early epic levels are a possible eventuality with this character (probably in a year or so)
Monastic Legacy (Combat)
Your formal unarmed training continues to bolster your training in other areas.
Prerequisites: Still mind class feature, Improved Unarmed Strike.
Benefit: Add half the levels you have in classes other than monk to your monk level to determine your effective monk level for your base unarmed strike damage. This feat does not make levels in classes other than monk count toward any other monk class features.
Knockout Artist
You can throw devastating knockout punches.
Prerequisites: Sneak attack class feature, Improved Unarmed Strike.
Benefit: When you use your unarmed strike to deal nonlethal damage and sneak attack damage to an opponent denied his Dexterity bonus to AC, you gain a +1 bonus on the damage roll per each sneak attack damage die you roll
Both of these would help but you need three monk levels to get monastic
Monastic Legacy (Combat)
Your formal unarmed training continues to bolster your training in other areas.Prerequisites: Still mind class feature, Improved Unarmed Strike.
Benefit: Add half the levels you have in classes other than monk to your monk level to determine your effective monk level for your base unarmed strike damage. This feat does not make levels in classes other than monk count toward any other monk class features.
Knockout Artist
You can throw devastating knockout punches.Prerequisites: Sneak attack class feature, Improved Unarmed Strike.
Benefit: When you use your unarmed strike to deal nonlethal damage and sneak attack damage to an opponent denied his Dexterity bonus to AC, you gain a +1 bonus on the damage roll per each sneak attack damage die you roll
Both of these would help but you need three monk levels to get monastic
Nice thanks. 3 levels in monk probably not going to happen but knockout artist is cool.
Do you think it's worth the level in monk though? Or is unarmed from ninja sufficient?
Monastic Legacy (Combat)
Your formal unarmed training continues to bolster your training in other areas.Prerequisites: Still mind class feature, Improved Unarmed Strike.
Benefit: Add half the levels you have in classes other than monk to your monk level to determine your effective monk level for your base unarmed strike damage. This feat does not make levels in classes other than monk count toward any other monk class features.
Knockout Artist
You can throw devastating knockout punches.Prerequisites: Sneak attack class feature, Improved Unarmed Strike.
Benefit: When you use your unarmed strike to deal nonlethal damage and sneak attack damage to an opponent denied his Dexterity bonus to AC, you gain a +1 bonus on the damage roll per each sneak attack damage die you roll
Both of these would help but you need three monk levels to get monastic
Nice thanks. 3 levels in monk probably not going to happen but knockout artist is cool.
Do you think it's worth the level in monk though? Or is unarmed from ninja sufficient?
Hmm, I would say go for improved unarmed strike as opposed to taking a level of monk. You want to keep your sneak attack progression as pure as possible, and dealing 1d6 instead of 1d3 damage with your unarmed strike isn't going to matter when you've got 6d6 sneak attack damage waiting in the wings.
My suggested progression:
Feats:
Human bonus: Sap Adept
1st: Weapon finesse
3rd: Knockout Artist
5th: Sap Mastery
Tricks:
2md: Unarmed Training
4th: Vanishing Trick
6th: Combat Trick: Enforcer
By level 5 you should be pulling off the max damage with sap mastery. See if you can take the scout archetype for your ninja and you can basically do the extra damage every time you charge.
TWF can come in later.
prototype00
Hmm, I would say go for improved unarmed strike as opposed to taking a level of monk. You want to keep your sneak attack progression as pure as possible, and dealing 1d6 instead of 1d3 damage with your unarmed strike isn't going to matter when you've got 6d6 sneak attack damage waiting in the wings.
My suggested progression:
Feats:
Human bonus: Sap Adept
1st: Weapon finesse
3rd: Knockout Artist
5th: Sap MasteryTricks:
2md: Unarmed Training
4th: Vanishing Trick
6th: Combat Trick: EnforcerBy level 5 you should be pulling off the max damage with sap mastery. See if you can take the scout archetype for your ninja and you can basically do the extra damage every time you charge.
TWF can come in later.
prototype00
Thanks prototype. Always so helpful. What do you think of forgotten trick?
Thanks prototype. Always so helpful. What do you think of forgotten trick?
Hmm, I would say go for improved unarmed strike as opposed to taking a level of monk. You want to keep your sneak attack progression as pure as possible, and dealing 1d6 instead of 1d3 damage with your unarmed strike isn't going to matter when you've got 6d6 sneak attack damage waiting in the wings.
My suggested progression:
Feats:
Human bonus: Sap Adept
1st: Weapon finesse
3rd: Knockout Artist
5th: Sap MasteryTricks:
2md: Unarmed Training
4th: Vanishing Trick
6th: Combat Trick: EnforcerBy level 5 you should be pulling off the max damage with sap mastery. See if you can take the scout archetype for your ninja and you can basically do the extra damage every time you charge.
TWF can come in later.
prototype00
Well, shucks. I like to think I'm helpful some of the time at least, so thanks.
Forgotten trick is good. Take it at 8th level, and all ninja tricks suddenly become available.
Actually it's slightly better than that, because you didn't take the rogue talent ninja trick, all rogue talents become available to you as well. Granted, you have to spend an exorbitant amount of ki points on them, but it's versatility which is never bad.
If you want to deal decent unarmed damage, you can take unarmed mastery as an advanced talent at 12th or 14th level (because invisible blade is definitely going to be your 10th level pick). Monk level -4 unarmed damage is good for another 2d6 damage to tack onto your SA.
prototype00
Might want to make sure your GM will let you take rogue archetypes.
It's a little wishywashy if alternate classes can take archetypes.
Might want to make sure your GM will let you take rogue archetypes.
It's a little wishywashy if alternate classes can take archetypes.
Yeah, I'll be able to take Scout.
Well, shucks. I like to think I'm helpful some of the time at least, so thanks.
Forgotten trick is good. Take it at 8th level, and all ninja tricks suddenly become available.
Actually it's slightly better than that, because you didn't take the rogue talent ninja trick, all rogue talents become available to you as well. Granted, you have to spend an exorbitant amount of ki points on them, but it's versatility which is never bad.
If you want to deal decent unarmed damage, you can take unarmed mastery as an advanced talent at 12th or 14th level (because invisible blade is definitely going to be your 10th level pick). Monk level -4 unarmed damage is good for another 2d6 damage to tack onto your SA.
prototype00
This is still makes having any kind of magic attacks kind of problematic. Amulet of mighty fists super epxensive. What about some enchanted brass knuckles? Maybe with merciful?
This is still makes having any kind of magic attacks kind of problematic. Amulet of mighty fists super epxensive. What about some enchanted brass knuckles? Maybe with merciful?
Well, shucks. I like to think I'm helpful some of the time at least, so thanks.
Forgotten trick is good. Take it at 8th level, and all ninja tricks suddenly become available.
Actually it's slightly better than that, because you didn't take the rogue talent ninja trick, all rogue talents become available to you as well. Granted, you have to spend an exorbitant amount of ki points on them, but it's versatility which is never bad.
If you want to deal decent unarmed damage, you can take unarmed mastery as an advanced talent at 12th or 14th level (because invisible blade is definitely going to be your 10th level pick). Monk level -4 unarmed damage is good for another 2d6 damage to tack onto your SA.
prototype00
I'd go with the brass knuckles, and possibly get agile before getting merciful (+4 from dex is better than 1d6 from merciful).
prototype00
I'd go with the brass knuckles, and possibly get agile before getting merciful (+4 from dex is better than 1d6 from merciful).
prototype00
Where is agile from? Maybe my search-fu on srd is weak. Don't they have to be merciful for me to get the Sap feat bonuses?
Where is agile from? Maybe my search-fu on srd is weak. Don't they have to be merciful for me to get the Sap feat bonuses?
I'd go with the brass knuckles, and possibly get agile before getting merciful (+4 from dex is better than 1d6 from merciful).
prototype00
Agile allows you to add your dex bonus instead of strength to damage dealth with finessable weapons. Its a +1 enhancment bonus from the pathfinder society field guide if I recall correctly.
Yeah, you're probably going to need merciful if you want to use brass knuckles.
Though you could get an agile amulet of mighty fists (no enhancement bonus) for cheaper than it would cost you to get a +1 merciful brass knuckle.
prototype00
Yeah, you're probably going to need merciful if you want to use brass knuckles.
Though you could get an agile amulet of mighty fists (no enhancement bonus) for cheaper than it would cost you to get a +1 merciful brass knuckle.
prototype00
Ok, so we're something like (since I can't go back and change feats...)
Scout (probably re-skin it as something else) Ninja Human
Fighting with adamantine knuckles on both hands, merciful, agile, subtlety, and MAGE BANE(hah, right...)
1 TWF, Finesse
2 trick:Vanish
3 Sap Adept
4 trick:Unarmed Combat Training
5 Sap Master
6 trick:Bleeding Strike
7 Leadership
8 trick:Forgotten Trick
9 Knockout Artist
10 trick:Invisible Blade
11 Imp. TWF
12 trick:dunno
13 dunno
....etc
I like extra Ki as filler though.
Whaddya think? Ideas for 11+?
Hm, probably offensive defense at 13...
Actually, do I need to take Improved Unarmed Strike in order to use brass knuckles?
edit: nevermind, think I figured out that you do....at least to avoid aoo, etc.