RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
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Would someone please talk me through the following situation and explain the rules and options?
What happened at the end of our last game is now causing unrest. We played a little too far and ended up leaving it at a point that we would have been better dealing with there and then. The (13th level) party removed the caked in blood on an alter, revealing a symbol of death. The symbol activated and killed the (greater invisible, flying) spellthief above it.
Cue calls of "What a cliffhanger!" and "Got to go, the wife will kill me!"
So now the players have 2 weeks to think of loopholes to change the outcome, and that's rather tricky. Five guys + the internet is not the same as 5 guys imagination in the heat of the moment.
The trickiest suggestion is that of the wizard, who suggests that as a Diviner with the Forewarned ability, he could act in the surprise round. He has an arcane version of the status spell and knows the instant the spellthief dies. This "acting in the surprise round" could either be before the trap - whereby he could do all sorts of stuff or straight after - whereby he would try tricky stuff via Limited Wish.
I'm fine with him acting immediately after the trap and helping out - I'm a little unsure of the order of actions if the trap becomes a thing acting in a surprise round and needs an initiative count.
So, if someone could talk me through traps, surprise, initiative and Forewarned - I'd be very grateful.
Traps don't have a surprise round or act in initiative order, IIRC.
I believe it to be an IF>THEN statement, that acts independently of things like initiative. The only time I think initiative counts at all on a trap is if you need to track when it resets (Like, resets in 10 rounds in a big combat). In that case, it'd technically reset on the initiative count it was originally activated 10 rounds later.
These is no surprise round against a trap. It goes of, thief is dead.
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Did the thief remove the blood while the rest of the party was safe elsewhere? Assuming he had trapfinding, it's dc 33 perception to spot. If he wasn't actively searching for traps, he could have had a reduced chance to spot it as the caked in blood was removed. Of course, you would have rolled that secretly for him.
I agree that the trap is outside of surprise or initiative, once activated, it's resolved.
If he does not have the ability to get a free spot check against traps and /or call for a perception check then he is toast. Time to roll a new character or get a rez.
Trap spotter is a very useful rogue talent. I would take it next time.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
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Thief was hovering in scout-mode while the fighter cleaned the alterstone with a decanter of endless water.
The trap having no initiative is the subject of a heated fluff/crunch debate now - we've mostly described the diviner's ability as a sort of "spidersense" and this is a tricky one since I am loath to retcon it.
Let them fix it - no problem. Change history -hmmmmm....
So - if you use Limited Wish to emulate an immediate action spell (to give a second save) is that also an immediate action?
He gets a bonuswhen init is rolled. Not any other time that would be like him saying he gets to act right before the king drinks poisoned wine.
Situation
Here is my question -- what exactly was the rogue of the party doing at the time?
The trap having no initiative is the subject of a heated fluff/crunch debate now - we've mostly described the diviner's ability as a sort of "spidersense" and this is a tricky one since I am loath to retcon it.
Well, fluffwise , it doesn't activate for the diviner because the diviner isn't in danger.
The rogue was doing nothing. Hanging out in case something shiny was revealed, or a lock or something. Chilling til the thing was clean so she could look for loot.
Did you give the people that were actively looking and moving the blood a perception check to notice the trap?
Anyone can find traps now all trap sense does is allow someone to bypass a magical trap with the disable device skill (and give them a bonus to spot it).
*This is assuming you are looking for a way to give the players a break. If not then they got exactly what doing what they did gives you.
The rogue was doing nothing. Hanging out in case something shiny was revealed, or a lock or something. Chilling til the thing was clean so she could look for loot.Did you give the people that were actively looking and moving the blood a perception check to notice the trap?
Anyone can find traps now all trap sense does is allow someone to bypass a magical trap with the disable device skill (and give them a bonus to spot it).
*This is assuming you are looking for a way to give the players a break. If not then they got exactly what doing what they did gives you.
Actually some of the doozy traps, you have to have trap sense to find them. More things just have trap sense now than the rogue...
Pretty sure with a dc 33 that this is one of those traps.
Actually some of the doozy traps, you have to have trap sense to find them. More things just have trap sense now than the rogue...
Pretty sure with a dc 33 that this is one of those traps.
Level 13 means 13 ranks +2 from wisdom +3 class skill +5 from a magic item means you have a +23 without trying. This is before we add in something like alertness or skill focus(perception) for a +4 or +6 -- together that would be a +33... you couldn't fail on spotting it at that point.
At level 13 I put this one on player error. That DC isn't anything for the level (at least for a skill check).
Limited Wish "• Duplicate any non-sorcerer/wizard spell of 5th level or lower, provided the spell does not belong to one of your opposition schools"
5th level Spell Breath of Life "School conjuration (healing); This spell cures 5d8 points of damage + 1 point per caster level (maximum +25). "
Scrub that - Symbol of Death is a Death effect that "affects the closest creatures first, skipping creatures with too many hit points to affect" So the fighter had more than 150 Hp?
I agree with the other posters that the Symbol is the trigger and thus would always go first (If there was a creature relying on the Symbol to start combat then there would be a surprise round for the Wizard to act in)
Well, fluffwise , it doesn't activate for the diviner because the diviner isn't in danger.
That's how I would rule it too. There have been a couple situations where fights (for whatever reason) simply DON'T have a suprise round. This sounds like one of those... and the diviner should have access to the information that pertains to HIM... Not everyone in the party. If there was a combat down the hall with a rogue and skeleton... the Mage wouldn't get to act in a surprise round... he's not PART of that combat.
same with someone else triggering a trap.