Entering a high-magic 10th level campaign as a Kobold alchemist. I tried rolling him up as a single level 10 alchemist with the mummification discovery, but he seemed kind of weak. Bombs, zombies and poisoned daggers. Re-rolled as a Rogue 2/Alchemist 8. Still got the bombs and zombies, but now with a shortbow.
Looks like this:
Alchemist 8/Rogue 2, Kobold, NE
42 HP
STR 7 (11-Kobold)
DEX 19 (17+Kobold)
CON 9 (11-Kobold)
INT 20 (18+levels)
WIS 14
CHA 11
Feats
Improved Initiative
Point Blank Shot
Rapid Shot
Dodge
stuck between Far Shot and Mobility
Rogue Talent: Snapshot (+20 to Initiative in Surprise Round)
Discoveries
Mutagen, Preserve Organs, Poison Conversion, Lingering Spirit, Alchemical Zombie
Basically a critter whose village was wiped out, and he was "taken in" (enslaved) by an alchemist who used him as an assistant for a time, but was going to use him in an experiment, at which point our sneaky Kobold revolted, killed his master, and stole his equipment. Then used his what he had learned through observation to manufacture his own black market potions, poisons, and narcotics.
Am I trying to stretch this guy in too many directions?
The feats, rogue talent, mutagen (dex boosting), and Poison Conversion are there to keep him out of melee and buff him as a sniper who can stick multiple poisoned arrows (with High DC's) in things susceptible to poison and bombs onto things that aren't. Preserve Organs, Lingering Spirit, and Evasion are there to keep him alive (and someday, hopefully mummify him). The Alchemical Zombie is there because I think it's cool and can't bring myself to lose it.
I am halfway tempted to drop the rogue levels and maybe sink a feat into the longbow, and get either mummification or fast bombs (or both, if I drop the zombies, or switch to a reanimator). But that loses evasion, snapshot (which I think is pretty dang cool for an alchemist), and 8 Skill points, not to mention a bunch of trained skills. (but not Stealth, which he gets as a kobold)
Any advice would be appreciated.
You're going to want precise shot to avoid the -4 for throwing/shooting over your allies heads.
What are you trying to get out of your rogue levels? Alchemists already have most of the good rogue skills.
Does your DM use traits?
I would avoid poison use based features. The poison doesn't work on things you can afford to use them on.
Fast bombs is AMAZING. It sends your damage through the roof, especially with rapid shot. You'll probably want precise bombs, especially if the rest of the party is evil too.
You're going to want precise shot to avoid the -4 for throwing/shooting over your allies heads.
What are you trying to get out of your rogue levels? Alchemists already have most of the good rogue skills.
Does your DM use traits?
I would avoid poison use based features. The poison doesn't work on things you can afford to use them on.
Fast bombs is AMAZING. It sends your damage through the roof, especially with rapid shot. You'll probably want precise bombs, especially if the rest of the party is evil too.
Thanks for the advice. Since I posted I thought it over and decided to go full alchemist, so now the discoveries are Preserve Organs, Fast Bombs, Poison Conversion, Alchemical Zombie (can't seem to let that one go), and Mummification. Lingering spirit doesn't seem worth it when a false life potion will get the job done better.
Feats are Point Blank, Rapid, Improved Init, Dodge, and Mobility.Still hanging on to the poisoned archery flavor, though. DM does allow traits, and I picked Fast Talker and Heirloom Weapon - Kobold Longbow. Also sunk a couple of ranks into Craft: Bows in case Pappa's non-masterwork longbow should break. Sticking with the poison; three shots per round of arrows with something like Tears of Death should bring down almost anything that bleeds, and I have a pretty good chance of hitting with a +15/+10/+15. Hmm, maybe I should go bracers of archery.
Bought him a headband of vast intelligence belt of dexterity, both +4. So now the best armor I can put on him is padded, or else he can't utilize his fully mutagened Dex bonus (which will be +8), but I'm hoping the Dodge and Dex AC boosts will keep him alive.
Most of the Party is not evil; in fact, there's a Paladin, a Cleric, and a CN Summoner among the party. Pretty much every morning will start by drinking an Undetectable Alignment Potion.
BTW, does Cat's Grace stack with a belt and a mutagen?
Mutagen yes belt no.
I don't see why you need/want dodge and mobility. You should be in the back, or at worst you can tumble around to avoid aoo. You can burn those on the extra discovery feat.
Mutagen yes belt no.
I don't see why you need/want dodge and mobility. You should be in the back, or at worst you can tumble around to avoid aoo. You can burn those on the extra discovery feat.
Whaaa? There's an extra discovery feat? See, that's why it's good to post these things.
Anyway, this DM will make sure that we're toe-to-toe, I'm pretty sure.
On the other hand, the Paladin (or the Eidelon) is always toe-to-toe with the big bad, so putting that feat into a precise bomb might be a good call.
Whaaa? There's an extra discovery feat? See, that's why it's good to post these things.
Extra Discovery
You have made a new alchemical discovery.
Prerequisite: Discovery class feature.
Benefit: You gain one additional discovery. You must meet all of the prerequisites for this discovery.
Special: You can gain Extra Discovery multiple times.
-There's an extra discovery feat, and you can take it multiple times. So ditch dodge I think you can get wings if you're worried about winding up in melee, Force bomb would be good to 1) damage fireproof/resistant foes and knock them over on their keisters.
And a kobold with big giant bat wings is freaking cool.
Anyway, this DM will make sure that we're toe-to-toe, I'm pretty sure.
On the other hand, the Paladin (or the Eidelon) is always toe-to-toe with the big bad, so putting that feat into a precise bomb might be a good call.
If you 5 foot step behind your meatshield you should be good to throw without drawing an AoO even from things with reach . You can't take an AoO against someone with cover relative to you. (and the effective -4 for throwing through your friend shouldn't be too bad)
Also... isn't the paladin going to gave a problem being in a party with you? Are you using some sort of alignment hiding device or do you have a quick-draw lead sheet for when he casts detect evil?
And a kobold with big giant bat wings is freaking cool.
Good call. And it frees up the Fly extract/potions I was thinking about, too.
Also... isn't the paladin going to gave a problem being in a party with you? Are you using some sort of alignment hiding device or do you have a quick-draw lead sheet for when he casts detect evil?
Yup. It's called Undetectable Alignment. I prepared 5 potions of it and I plan to drink one every morning.
Thanks. You've been a big help. This is shaping up to be a pretty kickass character.
So if you sprout the wings and fly as per the spell, does that mean it's a standard to sprout them? (like casting the spell) Or like, maybe a move (since you're not casting a spell)?
Yup. It's called Undetectable Alignment. I prepared 5 potions of it and I plan to drink one every morning.
Thanks. You've been a big help. This is shaping up to be a pretty kickass character.
I love alchemists. They're very versatile, if a little complicated. One fight you're an archer, one fight you're a buffer, and one fight you leave nothing but a mushroom cloud in your wake....
Let me save you some more cash then. You only need 1 potion of it. Check out this trick, its probably the coolest thing the alchemist does.
The spell lasts 24 hours. You use alchemical allocation
Alchemical allocation
School transmutation; Level alchemist 2
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components S
EFFECT
Range personal
Targets you
Duration 1 round
DESCRIPTION
This extract causes a pale aura to emanate from your mouth.
If you consume a potion or elixir on the round following the consumption of this extract, you can spit it back into its container as a free action. You gain all the benefits of the potion or elixir, but it is not consumed. You can only gain the benefits of one potion or elixir in this way per use of this extract.
So what you do is have a bucket handy, drink the elixir of alchemical allocation, drink your potion of undetectable alignment, throw up the potion of undetectable alignment into the bucket... and you can use it again.(filtering it is probably recommended for hygienic purposes but not actually necessary)
In fact, your entire second level spell slot can be nothing but alchemical allocations. Any potions you brew effective become things you can spontaneously cast with a 2 round casting time.
Edit: i don't think the wings are an action to use. You just tick off the minutes.
More edit: If you ditch preserve organs, you can get infusion, and give your meatshield free potions of enlarge person or expeditious retreat.
I love alchemists. They're very versatile, if a little complicated. One fight you're an archer, one fight you're a buffer, and one fight you leave nothing but a mushroom cloud in your wake....
I think this is why I'm attracted to the class; I love versatile characters, and this is a great way to get a lot of diversity without watering yourself down in multi-classing, like I did with a certain drow rogue/sorceress/would-be arcane trickster. A trap I almost fell into with this character.
If you ditch preserve organs, you can get infusion, and give your meatshield free potions of enlarge person or expeditious retreat.
I need Preserve Organs to go Mummy. Which is a flavor thing that attracted me to the class in the first place.
Alchemical Allocation didn't go by unnoticed. Almost seems overpowered for a 2nd level extract.
I was under the impression that Brew Potions meant that you just plain brew potions, as per the featand that anyone can use them. Infuse means you can give other people your alchemical elixir, which is less time-consuming and costly. Still never really seemed worth it to me.
This is why I prepared a bunch of Cure Serious, Remove Disease, Remove Curse. Since he's LE, I figure he's too much of a jerk to bother brewing (or even learning) Neutralize Poison once he's immune to the stuff.
Is there some fine print that says that the potions you brew only work on yourself?
Right my biggest quandary is deciding which to lose between Bottle Ooze and Alchemical Zombie - One has to go!
EDIT: It's gonna be Zombies. Bottled Ooze is way too cool.
Right my biggest quandary is deciding which to lose between Bottle Ooze and Alchemical Zombie - One has to go!
There are awesome bits to both of those discoveries, but I'd ditch alchemical zombie. It cost *four times* as much to animate something with the discovery versus using the spell. It will quickly become a money sink.
I need Preserve Organs to go Mummy. Which is a flavor thing that attracted me to the class in the first place.
Fair enough.
Alchemical Allocation didn't go by unnoticed. Almost seems overpowered for a 2nd level extract.
Its kind of their signature ability. An alchemist SHOULD be able to get more out of potions than other classes.
I was under the impression that Brew Potions meant that you just plain brew potions, as per the feat and that anyone can use them.
It does.
Infuse means you can give other people your alchemical elixir, which is less time-consuming and costly. Still never really seemed worth it to me.
For a selfish kobold it might not be. In terms of a party though, your enlarge person goes off instantly rather than taking a round, alchemical allocation lets the entire party dip into your never ending potion supply and you can even give out normally self only spells, like true strike and expeditious retreat.
One use of this that occurs to me for your kobold is if you get used to handing the party stuff and they drink it without question, if the time comes for your sudden but inevitable betrayal you can just hand an entire vial of poison to the paladin and say "here, drink this, you'll feel better"
Is there some fine print that says that the potions you brew only work on yourself?
Nope. It just gets expensive
Right my biggest quandary is deciding which to lose between Bottle Ooze and Alchemical Zombie - One has to go!
I think you might have a better chance of convincing the paladin you're not evil if you're not raising the dead in an unholy mockery of the miracle of life to serve you breakfast. Go with the ooze.
okay, so here's how it's looking:
Skirwit Drix
LE Kobold Alchemist 10
HP 42
AC 21 (23 w/Mutagen) Touch 19, FF 14
(Padded Armor, Bracers of Armor +3)
Init +10 (+12)
STR 7
DEX 23/27
CON 9
INT 24
WIS 14/12
CHA 11
Fort 6
Ref 11
Will 5 (3)
Bomb (15/day) +13/+8 or +11/+6/+11 (+15/+8 or +13/+8/+13) +1 within 30'.
5d6+5 (Crit 6d6+10)
Kobold Longbow, same AB as Bomb
dmg 1d6+poison (Purple Worm DC 24/ Dragon Bile DC 26)
Feats
Improved Initiative
Point Blank Shot
Rapid Shot
Extra Discovery: Precise Bomb
ED: Bottled Ooze
Traits: Fast Talker and Heirloom Weapon (Longbow, proficiency)
Discoveries:
Mutagen (+4/ Dex
Preserve Organs
Fast Bombs
Poison Conversion
Wings
Mummification
Lang: Draconic, Common, Undercommon, Dwarven, Gnome
some skill stats:
Craft: Trapmaking: 11
Diplomacy: Big Fat Zero
Disable Device: 15
Escape Artist: 10
Perception: 16
Profession: Miner: 7
Stealth: 20
Survival: 7
Swim: -2
UMD: 7
Some Gear:
Bag of Holding
Alchemist's Lab
various Alchemy junk: acid flask, antitoxin, etc
Pocketed scarf
Fuse Grenade x3 (to hand to other PC's, like the Monk)
Folding Boat
MW Thieves' Tools
Periscope
Ring of Sustenance
Belt of Dex +4
Belt of INT +4
Assorted Potions: Cure Serious, Remove Disease, Remove Curse, Water Breathing, etc
about 800 Gold, which I'm willing to muck.
Starting Daily Extracts:
4 Greater Invisibility
Gray Ooze
3 Gaseous Form
Seek Thoughts
Burrow
Gelatinous Cube
2 Alchemical Allocation (x2)
See Invisibility
False Life
Undetectable Alignment
Acute Senses
1 Ant Haul
Anticipate Peril
Bomber's Eye
Detect Secret Doors
Detect Undead
Expeditious Retreat
Reduce Person
Whew. That took a lot more work than I thought. And to think, 24 hours ago this was almost an Elf with Weapon Finesse.
Thanks, guys.
Any red flags I'm not seeing?
- Padded armor and bracers of armor don't stack. If you're worried about weight a mithril shirt will be 5 pounds, and you can have it enchanted. Remember you're proficient with light armor and there's no arcane spell failure for chugging an elixir or chucking a bomb.
-A darkwood buckler would help your ac at a cost of 1.25 pounds. You would take its Armor check penalty to all of your rolls for non proficiency. Its armor check penalty is 0. Put it away when you want to use your bow but keep it out when you're bombing.
-There's a paladin in the party. You will need bluff.
-Sell the folding boat. Buy more potions. lesser restoration, remove disease, barkskin. Alter self is hugely versatile.
- Did you remember to get the extra skill points from your headband? Headbands come pre loaded with skills at 1 skill per +2.
-Snag some scrolls of spells you'll want to add into your spellbook.. sorry, formulae book at some point. On that note you need spellcraft.
-A handy haversack is lighter than a bag of holding.
-You should probably get a cloak of resistance. Spells are more likely to kill you than HP loss.
Oops! Forgot to add 1 to all attack rolls for being small. And the +1 Natural Armor bonus. But since the armor doesn't stack, I guess AC is the same. Except that Touch AC is that same as regular. Maybe I'll just go without armor and rely on my Dex to save me.
Also darkvision 60/ Light Sensitivity. That means he'll need smoked goggles.
What concerns me more with the mithral shirt is the +6 Dex cap, making the mutagen pretty much useless. Maybe I'll ditch any armor and trust my Dex to save me. Better not get caught flat-footed. So here comes Acute Senses before heading down any dark alleys.
I actually did neglect to factor in the headband. Thanks.
Bluff is 7 (Fast Talker). I also put 4 ranks into it. But I can probably spare a few more, since I have the headband. So, poof, now it's 9. Spellcraft is 15.
I actually rolled to see what spells he would have come across in his travels. Didn't want to go overboard with metagaming. Barkskin is among the ones I came up with.
I considered the handy haversack, but I have so many items tossed in for flavor (like a folding chair, full alchemist's lab, tent, and other stuff. This guy lives out of his bag. Didn't want to overload the 80 + 40 lbs that the Haversack is capable of. But I'll check the math again. If it's not close, I'll probably go with the Haversack.
But folding boats are so cool! And this guy can't swim.
Then again, he can fly. Cloak of resistance +3, you say? And this DM is kind of a blaster. Hmm...
EDIT: Alchemist can use a buckler?
I guess AC is the same. Except that Touch AC is that same as regular. Maybe I'll just go without armor and rely on my Dex to save me.
Celestial armor has a max dex of +8 (which is i think all you need), but is very pricey. I'll check the APG for any of those funky asian silk armors that might do the same thing on discount.
Celestial Armor
Aura faint transmutation [good]; CL 5th
Slot armor; Price 22,400 gp; Weight 20 lbs.
Description
This bright silver or gold +3 chainmail is so fine and light that it can be worn under normal clothing without betraying its presence. It has a maximum Dexterity bonus of +8, an armor check penalty of –2, and an arcane spell failure chance of 15%. It is considered light armor and allows the wearer to use fly on command (as the spell) once per day.
Construction
Requirements Craft Magic Arms and Armor, fly, creator must be good; Cost 11,350 gp
I actually did neglect to factor in the headband. Thanks.Bluff is 7 (Fast Talker). I also put 4 ranks into it. But I can probably spare a few more, since I have the headband. So, poof, now it's 9. Spellcraft is 15.
I love it when a plan comes together.
I actually rolled to see what spells he would have come across in his travels. Didn't want to go overboard with metagaming. Barkskin is among the ones I came up with.
You get to pick one spell to add to your book each level, so no metagaming required, you get to choose.
I considered the handy haversack, but I have so many items tossed in for flavor (like a folding chair, full alchemist's lab, tent, and other stuff. This guy lives out of his bag. Didn't want to overload the 80 + 40 lbs that the Haversack is capable of. But I'll check the math again. If it's not close, I'll probably go with the Haversack.
Remember that your carrying capacity is only 3/4 normal... but everything made for your small size only weighs half as much.
But folding boats are so cool! And this guy can't swim.Then again, he can fly. Cloak of resistance +3, you say? And this DM is kind of a blaster. Hmm..
You can use alter self to turn into something with a swim speed if you can't get out of the water for some reason.
EDIT: Alchemist can use a buckler?
No. But non proficiency only gives you penalties equal to the armor check penalty. The darkwood buckler has an armor check penalty of zero, so anyone can use it without penalty.
Hate to be the fly in your ointment, but for the longbow you take your strength penalty on attack rolls. You may want to make it a repeating crossbow or something.
Hate to be the fly in your ointment, but for the longbow you take your strength penalty on attack rolls. You may want to make it a repeating crossbow or something.
Nope. Just damage rolls. And I don't really care about that. I don't expect that the damage from a plain longbow sized for small folk is going to bring critters down at this level. It's the poison that counts. And a hit's a hit, right? Even if I roll a 1 with a -2 penalty.
Actually, isn't there a rule somewhere about a minimum of 1 damage on a hit? I could conceivably Crit and roll snake eyes for damage, which would be -2 points. But if I hit that Minotaur with two arrows of Dragon Bile, he's got to beat a DC of 28 twice a round for 6 rounds, and he can't cure. And every time he fails he takes 1d3 of Strength damage. If he beats half of them, he still loses between 6 and 18 points of strength. And that's if I don't hit him again.
And maybe when I level up I'll take the explosive missile discovery for the range.
And there's Bull's Strength, also.
Can one use both a buckler and magical bracers?
Nope. Just damage rolls.
Strength (Str)
You apply your character's Strength modifier to:Melee attack rolls.
Damage rolls when using a melee weapon or a thrown weapon, including a sling. (Exceptions: Off-hand attacks receive only half the character's Strength bonus, while two-handed attacks receive 1–1/2 times the Strength bonus. A Strength penalty, but not a bonus, applies to attacks made with a bow that is not a composite bow.)
Climb and Swim checks.
Strength checks (for breaking down doors and the like).
-Just make sure the bow is composite.
And I don't really care about that. I don't expect that the damage from a plain longbow sized for small folk is going to bring critters down at this level. It's the poison that counts. And a hit's a hit, right? Even if I roll a 1 with a -2 penalty.Actually, isn't there a rule somewhere about a minimum of 1 damage on a hit?
Yes. 1-2 is 1 point of damage. Just be ware things with damage reduction: if you don't damage them you don't poison them. You may a collection of arrows prepped in advance with weapon blanches on your arrows so you can overcome damage reduction.
But if I hit that Minotaur with two arrows of Dragon Bile, he's got to beat a DC of 28 twice a round for 6 rounds, and he can't cure.
If the minotaur makes the initial save against the poison, that's it, there's no other effect.
Poisons fall under the category of afflictions. They each have a save, a frequency, an effect, and a cure. At the most simple level, this means that when a character comes into contact with the poison, she gets a save. If the save succeeds, the poison has no effect, regardless of the cure entry. If the saving throw is failed, the character takes the effect and must continue to makes saves, dictated by the frequency, or continue to take the effect with each failed save. The only way to be free of the poison at this point is to meet the conditions of the cure entry, usually one or more successful saving throws (usually consecutively if more than one).
http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lc12
The buckler would stack with the bracers of armor. One is an armor bonus the other is a shield bonus.
You can make a daily elixir of ant haul and mostly eliminate the encumbrance question.
Nope. Just damage rolls.Poisons fall under the category of afflictions. They each have a save, a frequency, an effect, and a cure. At the most simple level, this means that when a character comes into contact with the poison, she gets a save. If the save succeeds, the poison has no effect, regardless of the cure entry. If the saving throw is failed, the character takes the effect and must continue to makes saves, dictated by the frequency, or continue to take the effect with each failed save. The only way to be free of the poison at this point is to meet the conditions of the cure entry, usually one or more...
My understanding is that the rules are somewhat vague on poisons, and that this is kind of up to house rules.
If I fed you arsenic and you resisted its initial effects, it really doesn't make sense that you would then be immune to arsenic for the next five minutes, even if I made you take a bath in the stuff.
The d20pfsrd tries to clear it up by saying:
"If you are exposed to more of the same poison at any point while you are poisoned, you need to make a new initial save at +2 DC.
Success You resist the new dose and carry on as if it never happened (this success does not count toward the requisite "consecutive saves" for curing any poison that is already in your system)" I don't think saving once should cancel out the +2 DC per dose. More poison means deadlier poison, yeah?
Seems to me that "while you are poisoned" should really read "while the poison is in your system". It doesn't make sense that I can put 20 doses of poison into a commoner and he suffers no ill effect because he succeeded on his first save.
I'm going to have a talk with the DM about his rules for poison. Because if it's really "one save frees the target from poison for the entire encounter", then PF shouldn't really have poison, and poison shouldn't keep showing up as an element in Alchemist class features and discoveries.
My understanding is that the rules are somewhat vague on poisons, and that this is kind of up to house rules.
Thats why they did the blog i linked to.
If I fed you arsenic and you resisted its initial effects, it really doesn't make sense that you would then be immune to arsenic for the next five minutes, even if I made you take a bath in the stuff.
The person isn't, but if they make the dc 13 poison save against drink 1,2,3,4,5, and you feed them drink 6 they're STILL looking at a dc 13 fort save. (so rasputin was playing pathfinder)
2. The saving throw DC is increased by +2 for every active dose currently affecting the character. Poisons that were cured, have run through their entire frequency, or were negated with a successful initial saving throw do not increase the DC.
Seems to me that "while you are poisoned" should really read "while the poison is in your system". It doesn't make sense that I can put 20 doses of poison into a commoner and he suffers no ill effect because he succeeded on his first save.
It only gets harder when they miss their initial save.
I'm going to have a talk with the DM about his rules for poison. Because if it's really "one save frees the target from poison for the entire encounter", then PF shouldn't really have poison, and poison shouldn't keep showing up as an element in Alchemist class features and discoveries.
Its not QUITE that bad, but if it doesn't work the first time its probably not going to work the second time.
You need to remember when you use your mutagen that you get a +2 NA modifier to AC.
fast bombs and precise bombs are a waste unless you going to at least take 1 additional damage type.
might I recommend force bombs as a staple, run into somthing you can't beat its AC. force bombs will get the job done
run into fire resists, again force bombs ftw
plus knocking stuff prone without needing to make a CM check is really nice esp big critters.
if not force then something you need more than fire bombs otherwise your wasting your time spending 2 discoveries on bombs you'd be better off dumping bombs all together taking the vivisectionist archtype getting 5d6 sneak attack damage on this character and having 2 extra discoveries/feats to spend on something else
by the way sneak attacking for an alchemist is really really easy you get greater invisibility at your level , nuff said
fast bombs and precise bombs are a waste unless you going to at least take 1 additional damage type.
might I recommend force bombs as a staple, run into somthing you can't beat its AC. force bombs will get the job done
run into fire resists, again force bombs ftw
plus knocking stuff prone without needing to make a CM check is really nice esp big critters.
if not force then something you need more than fire bombs otherwise your wasting your time spending 2 discoveries on bombs you'd be better off dumping bombs all together taking the vivisectionist archtype getting 5d6 sneak attack damage on this character and having 2 extra discoveries/feats to spend on something else
by the way sneak attacking for an alchemist is really really easy you get greater invisibility at your level , nuff said
I actually am somewhat interested in going this route. But then I would feel obligated to take Weapon Finesse, and to take dodge and mobility. Except Weapon Finesse seems wasted on an alchemist. Also, I have about zero interest in making anthropomorphic animals.
I guess if I went that route this guy might look more like this:
Kobold Vivisectionist 10
Feats:
Improved Initiative
Point Blank Shot
Rapid Shot
Dodge
ED: Bottled Ooze?
Discoveries:
Mutagen
Preserve Organs
Spontaneous Healing
Poison Conversion
Mummification
I should mention that this is a campaign with a lot of invisibility and a lot of npc's and baddies that can see through it, so being invisible isn't as great as it's cracked up to be.
On the other hand, my baseline stealth is +20...
Q: If you dump the bomb feature, do you still get Throw Anything?
Q: If you dump the bomb feature, do you still get Throw Anything?
Yes, the only thing a vivisectionist loses are the bombs (and extra bombs in PFS).
Sneak attack through stealth is a trap. Its very slow to use in combat, stealth is currently unreliable and depends entirely on the DM, and you'll have to flank to get more than one attack. Its far, far FAR easier to get one feat/discovery on force bombs to be able to do force damage. If you're fighting the dragon thats immune to force damage, fall to your knees and bow to him, and use your bluff skill and draconic language to say the following
"Hello great one, behold these h'orderves i have brought for your pleasure"
I dunno why you're attracted to the mummification. The stats on that are bleh.
Sneak attack through stealth is a trap. Its very slow to use in combat, stealth is currently unreliable and depends entirely on the DM, and you'll have to flank to get more than one attack. Its far, far FAR easier to get one feat/discovery on force bombs to be able to do force damage. If you're fighting the dragon thats immune to force damage, fall to your knees and bow to him, and use your bluff skill and draconic language to say the following
"Hello great one, behold these h'orderves i have brought for your pleasure"
I dunno why you're attracted to the mummification. The stats on that are bleh.
I don't think I'm going to go vivisectionist. As much as I love sneak attack damage, I don't like anything else about the archetype (anthro animals? Meh. Have to sink a feat
Into the rogue feats? Belch.). Seems like it's more for multiclass rogues or evil NPCs.I will admit that I'm a bit disappointed in mummy. Resisting sleep and cold are cool, but I'm thinking about getting Preserve Organs twice, actually. I'll get bit with crits and sneaks a lot more often.
My stealth is still 20, which will grow to +60/40 while invisible. So I should maybe call this the Stealth Bomber build.
I don't think I'm going to go vivisectionist. As much as I love sneak attack damage, I don't like anything else about the archetype (anthro animals? Meh. Have to sink a feat Into the rogue feats? Belch.).
What rogue feat is required? That archetype doesn't require you to take any rogue feats, it just gives you the option of taking them if you want to.
You seem to have two meat shields, the eidelon and the paladin, why are you so worried about defense? They can't hurt you if they're dead!
You seem to have two meat shields, the eidelon and the paladin, why are you so worried about defense? They can't hurt you if they're dead!
Paranoia?
For one thing, this character is supposed have gotten to 10th level as a loner, and with 49 HP (I decided to re-roll), he didn't get there by not being cautious and able to defend himself. And while the Paladin is stalwart and brave, the Summoner got kind of cowardly after a hellhound destroyed him and nearly did a TPK a few months ago. (and it took us two weeks to get him resurrected) And that was before my Evoker went down for good. Also, the cleric has folding plate and ALWAYS hangs in the back, holding his action, very stingy with healing.
I don't think I'm going to go vivisectionist. As much as I love sneak attack damage, I don't like anything else about the archetype (anthro animals? Meh. Have to sink a feat Into the rogue feats? Belch.).What rogue feat is required? That archetype doesn't require you to take any rogue feats, it just gives you the option of taking them if you want to.
You're right, it actually requires that it forces you to cough up discoveries for the rogue talents, not feats. Double blech. Not saying it makes you do anything, I just think it's a bad feature. I just think it's kind of a crappy archetype, unless you're into anthropomorphic animals (and who isn't, nowadays?). And while sneak attack and anthro together sort of makes sense because of the study of anatomy, I don't think it blends too well as a build.
Paranoia?
For one thing, this character is supposed have gotten to 10th level as a loner, and with 49 HP (I decided to re-roll), he didn't get there by not being cautious and able to defend himself. And while the Paladin is stalwart and brave, the Summoner got kind of cowardly after a hellhound destroyed him and nearly did a TPK a few months ago. (and it took us two weeks to get him resurrected) And that was before my Evoker went down for good. Also, the cleric has folding plate and ALWAYS hangs in the back, holding his action, very stingy with healing.
There's ways to survive in the world with far fewer than 49 hps. For example "don't hurt me i'm just a lowly kobold what could i possibly do....*unleashes wave of wonton destruction*
In between the pally and the cleric you should be ok. With the force bombs, as long as you're more than 5 feet away from someone they can't hurt you when you unload on them: they'll need to stand up (a move action) and walk towards you. (another move action)
Norse - as I read the strength penalty/ longbow entries, it seems to me that a negative strength score gets you a damage penalty for longbows, but not for composite longbows, whereas you get an attack penalty for composite longbows (the default of which starts at zero) of -2, but no damage penalty (because the hard part was hitting with it).
So with my -2 penalty, if I tried to use a +5 composite longbow, I'd suffer a -2 (the default, not based on my score) penalty to hit, but no damage penalty if I do hit- but I wouldn't get the extra 5 damage. I guess this is because it's so dang hard to pull the taut bow back, but if I do it and manage to hit something, it hit almost as hard as if a strong person did it.
If I tried to hit with a regular longbow (sized for me, of course), I can use it without worrying about hitting, but because I can only pull it back so far, the arrow won't cause as much damage when it does.
That's how I read it, anyway. Make sense?
All comments were valuable and most have influenced the character. Thanks again.
Longbow, Composite
Description: You need at least two hands to use a bow, regardless of its size. You can use a composite longbow while mounted. All composite bows are made with a particular strength rating (that is, each requires a minimum Strength modifier to use with proficiency). If your Strength bonus is less than the strength rating of the composite bow, you can't effectively use it, so you take a –2 penalty on attacks with it. The default composite longbow requires a Strength modifier of +0 or higher to use with proficiency. A composite longbow can be made with a high strength rating to take advantage of an above-average Strength score; this feature allows you to add your Strength bonus to damage, up to the maximum bonus indicated for the bow. Each point of Strength bonus granted by the bow adds 100 gp to its cost. If you have a penalty for low Strength, apply it to damage rolls when you use a composite longbow.
For purposes of Weapon Proficiency and similar feats, a composite longbow is treated as if it were a longbow.
From the Strength description
Damage rolls when using a melee weapon or a thrown weapon, including a sling. (Exceptions: Off-hand attacks receive only half the character's Strength bonus, while two-handed attacks receive 1–1/2 times the Strength bonus. A Strength penalty, but not a bonus, applies to attacks made with a bow that is not a composite bow.)
Huh. I'd always read the last part as a strength penalty applying to the attack ROLL but now i'm not so sure.
But unless the DM says your heirloom longbow is Keyed to a -2 ability score you're going to take a -2 penalty to shoot with it. I think you're looking at either -2 to hit or -2 to damage if not both.
mummification gets interesting when you combine it with a cold detonate
which caps out at 10d8 ...but if you pickcu combined extract when you get level 6 extracts you can double detonate for 20d8 cold in a 30ft radius and take no damage since your immune to cold.
If anybody's interested, I started a new thread for the revised version here - http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/advice/stealthBomberBuild