What happens when the target of a 'Levitate' wakes up and is no longer willing?


Rules Questions


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Levitate:
Levitate

School transmutation; Level alchemist 2, magus 2, sorcerer/wizard 2, summoner 2, witch 2

CASTING

Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, F (a leather loop or golden wire bent into a cup shape)

EFFECT

Range personal or close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target you or one willing creature or one object (total weight up to 100 lbs./level)
Duration 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no

[This content was created for the Pathfinder rules by Paizo Publishing LLC and is part of the Pathfinder RPG product line.]

DESCRIPTION

Levitate allows you to move yourself, another creature, or an object up and down as you wish. A creature must be willing to be levitated, and an object must be unattended or possessed by a willing creature. You can mentally direct the recipient to move up or down as much as 20 feet each round; doing so is a move action. You cannot move the recipient horizontally, but the recipient could clamber along the face of a cliff, for example, or push against a ceiling to move laterally (generally at half its base land speed).

A levitating creature that attacks with a melee or ranged weapon finds itself increasingly unstable; the first attack has a -1 penalty on attack rolls, the second -2, and so on, to a maximum penalty of -5. A full round spent stabilizing allows the creature to begin again at -1.

Target is the under the effects of a magical Sleep. Then Levitate was cast on them and they moved up at 20-feet per round until they woke up.

Do they fall immediately because they are no longer a willing target of the spell?

The Exchange

harmor wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

Target is the under the effects of a magical Sleep. Then Levitate was cast on them and they moved up at 20-feet per round until they woke up.

Do they fall immediately because they are no longer a willing target of the spell?

Being asleep does not make you willing.


cp wrote:
harmor wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

Target is the under the effects of a magical Sleep. Then Levitate was cast on them and they moved up at 20-feet per round until they woke up.

Do they fall immediately because they are no longer a willing target of the spell?

Being asleep does not make you willing.

Yeah, it does. See that {willing} tag on saves, those are ignored if asleep.

Here is the rules:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic#TOC-Saving-Throw
Aiming a Spell

You must make choices about whom a spell is to affect or where an effect is to originate, depending on a spell's type. The next entry in a spell description defines the spell's target (or targets), its effect, or its area, as appropriate.

Target or Targets

Some spells restrict you to willing targets only. Declaring yourself as a willing target is something that can be done at any time (even if you're flat-footed or it isn't your turn). Unconscious creatures are automatically considered willing, but a character who is conscious but immobile or helpless (such as one who is bound, cowering, grappling, paralyzed, pinned, or stunned) is not automatically willing.

Notice this line: Unconscious creatures are automatically considered willing.
So be careful when you fall asleep, anything someone does with you is considered with your consent in Pathfinder.


"The unconscious are always willing."
-orcish proverb

This does not count as "Voluntarily Giving up a Saving Throw". Mostly it is so one does not automatically have to roll will saves when unconscious and affected by an allies' beneficial spells. But it also allows a KO'd character to be Teleported. Since the character has NO input when unconscious, both ally and enemy can port away with the character.

This rule and the Harmless class of will save are kinda related.

(harmless)
The spell is usually beneficial, not harmful, but a targeted creature can attempt a saving throw if it desires.

Grand Lodge

harmor wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

Target is the under the effects of a magical Sleep. Then Levitate was cast on them and they moved up at 20-feet per round until they woke up.

Do they fall immediately because they are no longer a willing target of the spell?

If they don't want to levitate, they are no longer a willing target. Just because they are the caster's enemy doesn't automatically make them unwilling.

Liberty's Edge

harmor wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

Target is the under the effects of a magical Sleep. Then Levitate was cast on them and they moved up at 20-feet per round until they woke up.

Do they fall immediately because they are no longer a willing target of the spell?

I would say NO. You can't no longer move them up or down using the spell if they aren't willing to be moved, but that don't dispel the spell, simply block your ability to move them.


I'd say you must be willing the moment the spells hits you, afterwards it doesn't matter any more.

So waking up changes nothing.


The spell only affects willing creatures. Once the creature wakes up it's up to it to decide if it remains willing or not. If not, then it's no longer a viable target for the spell and he'll begin falling. Seeing the alternative, I'd assume most creatures would remain willing for as long as they're in danger of failing.

Frankthedm wrote:
This does not count as "Voluntarily Giving up a Saving Throw". Mostly it is so one does not automatically have to roll will saves when unconscious and affected by an allies' beneficial spells. But it also allows a KO'd character to be Teleported. Since the character has NO input when unconscious, both ally and enemy can port away with the character.

I think I understand and yet, if a sleeping/unconscious creature is always allowed a saving throw, why wouldn't they automatically try and resist even beneficial spells cast by allies such as cure spells that, although harmless, still allow saving throws?

It also does seem counterintuitive that a sleeping creature, although considered "willing" wouldn't also "voluntarilly" give up its saving throw.


Sleeping creatures are not unconscious, so they are not automatically considered willing. Unconscious is a specific condition.

Quote:
Unconscious: Unconscious creatures are knocked out and helpless. Unconsciousness can result from having negative hit points (but not more than the creature's Constitution score), or from nonlethal damage in excess of current hit points.

Sleeping, as a condition, is not defined. Sleeping creatures are still conscious, since they are able to make perception checks (at -10). Unconscious creatures cannot.


Ah. So it's being kicked into unconsciousness which flips a creature's "unwilling" switch off. Interesting distinction.

This sounds like a strange metaphor of sorts. Dictatorships remain viable as long as they continue to pummel they're citizens until they're no longer unwilling.


MicMan wrote:

I'd say you must be willing the moment the spells hits you, afterwards it doesn't matter any more.

So waking up changes nothing.

I would do this.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
MicMan wrote:

I'd say you must be willing the moment the spells hits you, afterwards it doesn't matter any more.

So waking up changes nothing.

Bing bing bing! We have a winner.

The qualification is regarding if someone is a valid target for the spell or not. At the time the spell is cast, the target must be willing. Once the spell is in place, it lasts for its duration regardless of if the target ceases qualifying.

Example:

invisibility
Target you or a creature or object weighing no more than 100 lbs./level

What happens when someone invisible dies? First, they cease being a creature and instead become an object. Second, they remain invisible because the spell duration hasn't run out.

Same thing applies to fly, for instance.


Silver Eye wrote:
MicMan wrote:

I'd say you must be willing the moment the spells hits you, afterwards it doesn't matter any more.

So waking up changes nothing.

I would do this.

Likewise.

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