Advice on Cohorts


Advice


Hello boards, one of my players have decided to pick the leadership feat in our Kingmaker campaign, which is very suitable since he's also the king. And it's good being king, right?

We haven't yet decided what the cohort is supposed to be, some form of divine caster, oracle or cleric most likely. I am mostly concerned with the feat partly out of balance issues, so I have a few questions:

Since your cohorts are loyal to you and doesn't ask for much, you can pull them with you on all your adventures. Does fights have to be balanced for an additional party member, and does the cohort require part of the loot to remain loyal?

Are stats rolled, or used standard/heroic NPC rolls? Or is that entirely up to me as the DM?

I'm mostly concerned introducing an NPC healbot to the group would skew up the balance of fights mostly.


how it should be:
fights are balanced for leadership, as it's a feat
the cohort requires loot (I guess) but only a little, as his level is lower, he might remain loyal for some time without reward as he gains exp.
Stats are rolled or standard NPC, but you can dismiss them and ask for another one, so pretty much a free pick. So all in all up to the DM, but you should work with him, right?

how it is:
leadership isn't 100% balanced for fights.
if you can choose, or recruit followers that even have 1 level in witch, the feat is incredibly broken (human: scar hex and fortune or heal)
not to speak of a witch coven

all of this is my opinion and not set in stone, if in doubt ask your GM, leadership is very "open-to-interpretation" feat.
a healbot seems simple and might not be broken, I would allow it, but monsters might attack him and if he dies, I wouldn't immediatly replace him.


Want my suggestion? Don't allow leadership as a feat. If you believe a character, be they 1st level or 20th level, has cultivated a minion sufficiently that this minion should be considered a henchman in the old school, then let that player control said henchman. If they've achieved enough renown that they attract followers, let them attract followers. Keep the feats and such metagame resources out of it. Most of the other GMs I know use either my approach or just ban such things entirely. I don't know any of them that will just let an arbitrary character take the leadership feat, with the exception of a couple who will let you take it if and only if they perceive your class and build as underpowered.


Well we opted for a life oracle in the end, it's fluffy and fits as well. I chose to essentially give it heroic NPC stats and equipment, as well as avereged its HP. This makes it a lot weaker than the PCs, and squishier, but will still accompany them through their adventures.

Silver Crusade

Depends on the campaign. I run Kingmaker and 3 of my 4 players have cohorts. However I created the cohorts after a brief discussion with the players involved. As far as I am concerned they are NPC's who are loyal to the player and my players get to control them in combat. They are my NPC's to play however, with their own motivations and views.

In Serpent's Skull I have banned Leadership because it doesn't fit as well. The same can be said of Carrion Crown. Skull and Shackles may see the return of cohorts however.

They are not that unbalancing. Having your own pet NPC sounds great until you realise that you have to outfit them with gear and equipment.


Gentleman wrote:

Hello boards, one of my players have decided to pick the leadership feat in our Kingmaker campaign, which is very suitable since he's also the king. And it's good being king, right?

Well leadership goes from a useless feat to an overpowered feat depending on the DM treats it.

The character has spent a feat, when in all reality they could have gone and recruited an NPC, right?

So it should be better than simply an NPC.

It should not be a feat that lets the player make NPCs that he then disposes of as it suits him.

Find somewhere in the middle.

-James


Cohort should be used only as an advisor or assistant in running the realm in my opinion. Completely non combative. Its a highly overpowered feat that many players abuse.


EWHM wrote:
I don't know any of them that will just let an arbitrary character take the leadership feat, with the exception of a couple who will let you take it if and only if they perceive your class and build as underpowered.

One of the prerequisites of the Leadership feat is that you have to be at least 7th level. By 7th level the majority of your combats are reaching "epic" status. Your characters are powerful, and they deserve powerful feats. Leadership being one of them. In my opinion, as long as a player can fully explain the reasoning behind why their character is taking on cohorts then it should be fully allowed (as long as at least level 7 is reached). For those GMs who will not allow the feat it is simply a lack of imagination on their part. There are PLENTY of ways to push the CR of combat up without over powering the rest of the group. Start with more challenging terrains, or horde situations. But allow players in a pseudo "epic" atmosphere to experience epic combat.


Taason the Black wrote:
Cohort should be used only as an advisor or assistant in running the realm in my opinion. Completely non combative. Its a highly overpowered feat that many players abuse.

It is the DM/GMs job to ensure that a player does not abuse it. If they start to abuse a feat, then it is the GM's job to upscale an environment. If a player uses a feat, it can not be a useless one. Every feat has a benefit. Making him an advisor or assistant takes what is a good feat and makes it worthless.

Grand Lodge

Taason the Black wrote:
Cohort should be used only as an advisor or assistant in running the realm in my opinion. Completely non combative. Its a highly overpowered feat that many players abuse.

A cohort is a minimum of two levels below the player character. Unless you have a wide range of player character levels, the cohort should not have a significant impact on combat.


Leadership feat
Haven't seen it used much since DnD 3.0

Back then my GM made us use lower point buy for abilities (otherwise he would be leading his own group of heros), no prestige class (they were a bigger deal then), and gear as a fairly standard NPC (in other words, a lot less than the PC's).

The PC would then usually have to spend a fair amount of cash to bring the cohort's equipment up to the group standard, use his share of the loot to get items good for the cohort, and keep the cohort alive in the really deadly encounters.


JermoB wrote:
EWHM wrote:
I don't know any of them that will just let an arbitrary character take the leadership feat, with the exception of a couple who will let you take it if and only if they perceive your class and build as underpowered.
One of the prerequisites of the Leadership feat is that you have to be at least 7th level. By 7th level the majority of your combats are reaching "epic" status. Your characters are powerful, and they deserve powerful feats. Leadership being one of them. In my opinion, as long as a player can fully explain the reasoning behind why their character is taking on cohorts then it should be fully allowed (as long as at least level 7 is reached). For those GMs who will not allow the feat it is simply a lack of imagination on their part. There are PLENTY of ways to push the CR of combat up without over powering the rest of the group. Start with more challenging terrains, or horde situations. But allow players in a pseudo "epic" atmosphere to experience epic combat.

I don't have a problem with PC's having henchmen, frankly well before 7th level, and I don't have a particular problem with party size. Since my style is simulationist, I generally let the party pick most of its own objectives---larger parties will normally seek richer and thus usually stronger opposition. What I do have an objection to is the meta nature of the leadership feat. My position seems very common among narrativists and gamists as well, although often for slightly different reasons.

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