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OK, I just want to make sure I got this correct...if the creator of a magic item doesn't meet the requirments he can still attempt to craft the item with a +5 to the DC?
For example a Wizard/Sorcerer could craft an item that had a prereq of insert spell here and Must be a 10th lvl Cleric.
So if he knew the spell no issue, but he's not a the cleric so add 5 to the DC? Does it increase at all if his lvl is less than 10?
If he doesn't meet either of those prereq all he does is add +10 to the craft DC?
Thanks in advance for the help!
If I'm not mistaken, the "Must be a Cleric of 10th level" type of requirements are, indeed, requirements, and cannot be bypassed by increasing the DC.
Based on the number of different potential interpretations to the Magic Item Creation section of the rules, the answer is indeterminate, and relies entirely on the particular interpretation that each GM decides to use.
There is at least one interpretation that says that the DC is increased for not knowing the spell, not being a cleric, and not being 10th level; there is at least one interpretation that says that the fact that the creator is not 10th level means that the item cannot be created; there is at least one interpretation that says that the creator cannot make the item on his own at all since he fails to meet the prerequisites and could make the item at a higher DC with the aid of a 10th level cleric who did know the spell; there is at least one interpretation that says that the creator would *not* need to use an increased DC for getting help from a 10th level Cleric who knows the spell. There are probably other combinations of interpretations that I haven't covered, but I think you see my point. :P
This issue has been a topic for debate since the Core Rules were in Beta, as I recall, and no explicit clarifications have ever been provided that I know of.
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So then what it sounds like is in the end its up to GM/DM interpretation?
What about if the spell in question is not even accesible for the creator of said item. For example lets say its a Oracle who is the crafter...the spell required is not and will never be on his spell list. All this does is increase the DC +5?
Personaly I would see that as a no go, however if the spell could be learned by the individual but the character in question just doesn't have it in his spell book or selected spells known then sure it's just a +5 DC, but for a spell they could never learn...well I just don't see that happening unless they have someone else there to cast the spell.
It would be great to get some creators of this fine game feed back on this one.
The caster Level listed at the top of the item description is not a requirement, it just sets the base DC to build the item (CL+5). As per Pearl of Power FAQ it is only a requirement if it is listed in the bottom section - requirements. eg for the Pearl:
"Construction Requirements: Craft Wondrous Item, creator must be able to cast spells of the spell level to be recalled; Cost 500 gp (1st), 2,000 gp (2nd)..."
But is not part of "Portable Hole (Aura strong conjuration; CL 12th) ... Construction Requirements:Craft Wondrous Item, plane shift; Cost 10,000 gp"
So the DC to build a Portable Hole is 17 or 22 if you cannot cast "Plane Shift"
Yeah, item creation isn't as unclear as Doskious claimed, and for the most part the things that are have been clarified by the developers on these forums.
In most cases an item's caster level is not a prerequisite. As has been stated, it simply sets the base DC of the skill check. David Thomassen is correct regarding the exception to this, however: if a specific caster level is listed in an items requirements section, it must be met.
Magic item crafters must have the specified item creation feat. Similarly, the caster-level limitations on magical weapons and armor cannot be bypassed.
In general, all other crafting prerequisites can be bypassed. Each requirement that is not met imposes a +5 increase to the DC of the skill check to make the item. There are exceptions to this as well, though; potions, scrolls, staves, wands, or any other spell-trigger or spell-completion magic items cannot be created without meeting their prerequisites.
Does the DC + 5 mean you no longer need the spell, or does it mean you must find a secondary entity to cast it.
You would no longer need the spell.
Yeah, item creation isn't as unclear as Doskious claimed, and for the most part the things that are have been clarified by the developers on these forums.
In most cases an item's caster level is not a prerequisite. As has been stated, it simply sets the base DC of the skill check. David Thomassen is correct regarding the exception to this, however: if a specific caster level is listed in an items requirements section, it must be met.
Magic item crafters must have the specified item creation feat. Similarly, the caster-level limitations on magical weapons and armor cannot be bypassed.
In general, all other crafting prerequisites can be bypassed. Each requirement that is not met imposes a +5 increase to the DC of the skill check to make the item. There are exceptions to this as well, though; potions, scrolls, staves, wands, or any other spell-trigger or spell-completion magic items cannot be created without meeting their prerequisites.
I happily admit to being somewhat pessimistic about the clarity of the Magic Item Creation rules. I would dearly love to be pointed to developer clarifications, or better yet, FAQ entries. I've seen far too many threads on this topic for it to be considered anything but "Frequently Asked"...
Don't get me wrong, I personally agree with the interpretation you've advanced. Nevertheless, I recognize that other discordant interpretations are just as logically valid. Therefore, while I have an opinion about the interpretation that I like to use, it's not the only one that's valid. Since the OP is not playing in one of my games, answering with information based on my interpretation seems of little use; contrariwise, as far as I'm aware, the RAW answer to the original question is indeterminate.
(Again, I would be positively thrilled to see links to developer clarifications and/or FAQ entries.)
Different items have different requirement, including some that cannot be bypassed with the +5 to DC.
For example, from the FAQ:
Update: Page 549, in the Magic Item Creation rules, in the second paragraph, change the last sentence to read as follows.
In addition, you cannot create potions, scrolls, staves, wands, or any other spell-trigger or spell-completion magic item without meeting its prerequisites.
If I'm not mistaken, the "Must be a Cleric of 10th level" type of requirements are, indeed, requirements, and cannot be bypassed by increasing the DC.
The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create spell-trigger and spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.
Those are the exceptions listed in the PRD. Oddly enough, it's exactly what the book says as well. Since, at my gaming table we don't have internet connections, if Piazo isn't going to even bother updating the PRD with their rulings and corrections, we go with published sources.
Piazo did specify that, as Enevhar Aldarion quoted, "you cannot create potions, scrolls, staves, wands, or any other spell-trigger or spell-completion magic item without meeting its prerequisites."
As it stands then, the only things you don't have to have a spell ready to cast to make are weapons, armor, rods, rings and Wonderous Items, assuming that they aren't spell-trigger or spell-completion items.
That is correct
Just to make sure this is covered, the CL in creating items stands for "caster level" and not cleric.