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Human fighter, STR 18, wields a hooked lance (UC) in two hands from horseback with the Spirited Charge feat-chain. Gets a crit on a charge.
Damage: 6x(1d8+6) = ~63
At 4th, with a +1 weapon, [weapon-master] variant, Power Attack and WeapSpec, it'll be ~123. (Then he goes cavalier with Boon Companion or [beast-rider] archtype for a full-level mount at 5th.)
If, for some reason he doesn't want to just nuke his enemy from orbit with an elevation bonus, he can also trip with this 3gp d8 x4 crit martial reach-weapon.
A plain, ordinary CRB x3 crit lance costs 10gp.
Falcata, eat your heart out -- you are no longer the king of cheese.
I'm a little confused, why is it x6?
I'm a little confused, why is it x6?My mistake; a Spirited crit with a x4 weapon should be x9.
Don't think so...let me look at the feat in question,
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When stacking multipliers, you remove 1 from each additional set of multipliers, then ADD the two (or more) numbers together for the final multiplier total -- so a Spirited Charge (x3) with a hooked lance (x4) which is a crit deals out x{(3)([4-1])} = x6.
Confused? Me too; I just edited my OP for the third time (to go back to x6) and zotted a few interim responses.
BTW, this (CRB p179)...
Note: When you multiply damage more than once, each
multiplier works off the original, unmultiplied damage.
So if you are asked to double the damage twice, the end
result is three times the normal damage.
....is some of the most incomprehensible gobbledegook ever written, which is why I'm going my this here (which is also the old 3.5 errata ruling and the one used in Living Greyhawk).
But not that you'll need the 7th multiplier to blow a smoking hole right through anything smaller than the tarrasque anyway.
Also there's the Litany of Righteousness, which allows anyone with a good aura and the spell to do double damage against evil things.
So this might be better with a paladin.
When stacking multipliers, you remove 1 from each additional set of multipliers, then ADD the two (or more) numbers together for the final multiplier total -- so a Spirited Charge (x3) with a hooked lance (x4) which is a crit deals out x{(3)([4-1])} = x6.
Confused? Me too; I just edited my OP for the third time (to go back to x6) and zotted a few interim responses.
BTW, this (CRB p179)...
Note: When you multiply damage more than once, each
multiplier works off the original, unmultiplied damage.
So if you are asked to double the damage twice, the end
result is three times the normal damage.....is some of the most incomprehensible gobbledegook ever written, which is why I'm going my this here (which is also the old 3.5 errata ruling and the one used in Living Greyhawk).
But not that you'll need the 7th multiplier to blow a smoking hole right through anything smaller than the tarrasque anyway.
So if he's holding it with both hands....uh how is he holding onto his horse? Lances are a weird creature, they're listed as 2H" weapons, but you don't use them two handed unless you're off your horse. A normal lance should be martial and this new upstart should be exotic. I used goblins on wolves with ride by attack with extreme efficacy in agame I ran one...
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So if he's holding it with both hands....uh how is he holding onto his horse? Lances are a weird creature, they're listed as 2H" weapons, but you don't use them two handed unless you're off your horse. A normal lance should be martial and this new upstart should be exotic. I used goblins on wolves with ride by attack with extreme efficacy in agame I ran one...
Already been there, there are a few examples of 2 handed use from horseback.
You need a combat trained mount and enough skill to be capable of guiding it with your knees.On the other hand, a hooked lance don't get the x2 damage from horseback bonus.
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So if he's holding it with both hands....uh how is he holding onto his horse?With his legs. Baddoomp-boomp-tssh! *ahem* ....we're taking "artistic license" at low level assuming a min-max fighter can actually make a CHA-based handle animal check in the sort of H&S homegame that'd permit this kind of nonsense -- but after that it's guide-with-knees via cavalier & trained mount. Or just take cavalier at 1st.
Lances are a weird creature, they're listed as 2H" weapons, but you don't use them two handed unless you're off your horse.The listing in the CRB indicates that you "can" use them one-handed -- it does not say that you must. And Saint George would like to have a word with you.
A normal lance should be martial and this new upstart should be exotic.Per Glaive and Glaive-guisarme precedent, a Hooked Lance should cost 50% more than base (so 15gp) and have identical stats save for the additional Trip property. None of this lame-butt x4 nonsense for three gold-pieces (What? Is it extra pointy? Do those stupid round-eye gaijin western barbarians not know how to sharpen their weapons? Does cheap, low-carbon steel just fall out of the sky over Tian Xia?).
Don't be too sure about that (outside of a home-game, at any rate) -- the damned thing has "lance" right in its name; and there is precedent in the game for extrapolating feats to cover newly-introduced and functionally similar weapons. What you do know is that the description didn't go out of its way to deny mounted bonuses (and being on a mount is about the only reason to distinguish a stabbing reach polearm as a "lance" instead of a "longspear")."Velveeta".Hush, you. (I posted that when the "working build" below had an INT of 7; by the time I raised it, it was too late to edit the OP. :-P)
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20pt human ... STR+17, DEX:12, CON:14, INT:12, WIS:12, CHA:12
Traits: Berserker of the Society, Dangerously Curious
01 barb1 Extra Rage, Weapon Focus, [drunken brute variant]
02 cava1 [favored class][order of the cockatrice], Challenge 1/day, Teamwork Feat
03 figh1 [weapon-master variant], Mounted Combat, Ride-by-Attack
04 figh2 STR>18, Spirited Charge
05 cava2 Raging Vitality
06 cava3 Cavalier's Charge
07 cava4 Challenge 2/day, Expert Trainer, Horse Master
08 figh3 STR>19, Weapon Training +1, (buy Gloves of Dueling)
09 figh4 Power Attack, Furious Focus
10 barb2 Uncanny Dodge, Good For What Ails You
11 cava5 Banner, Weapon Specialization
12 cava6 STR>20, FEAT(c), etc....Important equipment: Gloves of Dueling (15,000), +1/Keen/Furious Hooked Lance (16303), +1/Medium Fortification Mithral Full Plate (19,500), Belt of Physical Perfection +2 (16,000), Circlet of Persuasion (4,500), Incandescent Blue Sphere Ioun Stone in Wayfinder (8,500), Pale Green Prism Ioun Stone (cracked, +1 att, 5,000). Ring of Feather Falling (two: 4,400), Figurine of Wondrous Power (Bronze Griffon, 10,000)
Raging + item "effective" stats at 12th: STR+26, DEX:14, CON:22, INT:12, WIS~18*, CHA~18* (*vs saves for will & checks for CHA)
Alignment: true neutral, so when those anti-paladins smite us with their Unholy/Chaotic weapons, we don't explode like a bomb.Charging attack bonus at 12th: 12(BAB)+8(STR)+4(enh)+4(CavC)+1(WF)+1(ioun)+3(WT) = +33
Standard lance damage vs challenged or demoralized foe: 1d8+12(STR)+12(PA)+4(enh)+3(WT)+2)WS)+6(CavL)+2(cock) = ~54.5
Spirited Charge w/Hooked Lance harshly interpreted = ~109
Spirited Charge -or- critical (w/CRB Lance) = ~163.5
Critical hit w/Hooked Lance = ~218
Spirited Crit w/CRB Lance or w/Hooked Lance harshly interpreted = ~272.5
Spirited Crit w/Hooked Lance leniently interpreted = ~327
Spirited Crit w/Hooked Lance interpreted by players who erroneously add x3 and x4 for x7: ~381.5
Spirited Crit w/Hooked Lance interpreted by players who erroneously multiply x3 and x4 for x12: ~654Build features:
* 4, 6 or 7 skills/level depending upon whether or not Favored Class bonus taken is skill points.
* Use Magic Device + Circlet of Persuasion + Crayola box full of cheap wands = awesome.
* Drink potions as move action; extend rage by consuming alcohol (Drunken Brute).
* We take figh3/4 earlier if we want on-foot damage earlier than mounted damage, Barb2 earlier if we fail lots of saves.
* We will own Belt of Physical Might +2 (STR/CON) before leveling at 5th for Raging Vitality; this is more important than weapon or armor upgrades as otherwise Raging Vitality will be dangerously delayed until 7th, or we will have to bump CON instead of STR at 4th.
* Weapon Training +1 at figh3 (Weapon Master) is amplified by Gloves of Dueling.
* Mount is based on character level (Horse Master); we expect to be riding a griffon or even nicer flying mount by 10th (this is why we buy two Rings of Feather Falling).
* We do not take the Mounted Fury barbarian archtype because it forfeits Uncanny Dodge -- because we like to kill things in the surprise round before our charge lanes are all messed up (and because we like drinking potions fast via Drunken Brute, which doesn't stack with Mounted Fury).
* We do not take the Beast Rider cavalier archtype because it forfeits Expert Trainer -- which is a requirement for Horse Master, which is better than Boon Companion.
* Things that are lame: Cavalier's Tactician (granting Teamwork feats) sucks until 9th level (until then we need a standard action to deploy to allies); waiting endlessly for a flying mount and then keeping it alive; stupid dungeon crawl and city adventures which we hate. "Fine; I'll just wait outside and sharpen my griffon's claws."
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Don't be too sure about that (outside of a home-game, at any rate) -- the damned thing has "lance" right in its name; and there is precedent in the game for extrapolating feats to cover newly-introduced and functionally similar weapons. What you do know is that the description didn't go out of its way to deny mounted bonuses (and being on a mount is about the only reason to distinguish a stabbing reach polearm as a "lance" instead of a "longspear").The rules have gone out of their way to say that it is a polearm and not a spear like a lance:
Polearms: bardiche*, bec de corbin*, bill*, glaive, glaive-guisarme*, guisarme, halberd, hooked lance**, lucerne hammer*, mancatcher*, monk’s spade**, naginata**, nodachi**, ranseur, rohomphaia**, tepoztopili**, and tiger fork**Spears: amentum**, boar spear*, javelin, harpoon**, lance, longspear, pilum*, shortspear, sibat**, spear, tiger fork**, and trident
Take note of under what weapon group is the lance and under what weapon group is the hooked lance.
Several of the weapons in that group can't even be used when riding.Again, description of the item:
Hooked Lance: This slender, 10-foot-long polearm has an added hook protruding from the head that is used to snag the clothing and armor of opponents.Again: polearm.
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So.... what we have then is yet another weapon which is made ridiculously (if haphazardly) lethal (x4 crit), but which is then "fixed" on-the-fly by the designers via a nerfage mechanic of placing it within a weapons category at variance from the more ubiquitous weapon sharing the same name...but the name and the description are maintained to trap the unwary gamer. Not that having a different weapon category really means a thing other than to foster endless debates until some kind soul wanders along to dispense an official errata.
Ugh.
A martial x4 crit reach trip weapon? What were they thinking?
The damn thing would be a bargain at 300gp let alone 3gp.
So.... what we have then is yet another weapon which is made ridiculously (if haphazardly) lethal (x4 crit), but which is then "fixed" on-the-fly by the designers via a nerfage mechanic of placing it within a weapons category at variance from the more ubiquitous weapon sharing the same name...but the name and the description are maintained to trap the unwary gamer. Not that having a different weapon category really means a thing other than to foster endless debates until some kind soul wanders along to dispense an official errata.
Ugh.
A martial x4 crit reach trip weapon? What were they thinking?
The damn thing would be a bargain at 300gp let alone 3gp.
I'm guessing it's supposed to be 30gp. A 0 got missed.