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I wanted to see what everyone thought about this.
I have a player in my group with a Fighter that rarely if ever does any damage but he is often the most helpful member and frequently earns the unofficial MVP award from me.
Here's the deal.
He is a Dexterity focused, human fighter that uses whips in each hand (he takes all the penalties). He has feats like weapon finesse, Improved trip, improved disarm as well as two weapon fighting and improved two-weapon fighting once he got to 6th level.
The average combat encounter goes something like this.
1. Monster approaches
2. Whip fighter moves to just within range of his whips and will either trip, disarm or blind the monster using the dirty trick maneuver from APG. If he only had to make a five foot step then he will do several of the above. He may even disarm the monster and then use steal (also from the APG book).
3. The rogue or barbarian hold their action to right after the whip fighter has gone, move in and annihilate the poor beast. They also hover around and wait for it to try and stand up or grab their weapon off the floor.
4. Rinse and repeat for subsequent rounds.
Now, some monsters have it harder or easier than others. Armed humanoids of medium size have it the worst as they are subject to everything he can dish out. Unarmed monster of large size or with a lot of legs are resistant or immune to his stuff and some beasts are his nightmare such as anything bigger than large or an ooze though admittedly and ooze messes up any fighter and should be left to arcane casters.
Am I complaining? No. He works with the group and makes their job easier so he contributes without outshining anyone and is a big team player. He has to be as he rarely inflicts any damage. He has a pair of sickles for backup but I've rarely seen him use them.
I'm just wondering if anyone else has ever seen a martial controller that does no damage work or anything close to that and if you have any comments on his choice of character design.
No I have never seen it, but I would have to see this through many levels, and see how the game is ran before I became a fan of it also.
If you have a large enough party that will allow for one person to do nothing but control and the player is having fun then there is no problem.
If the game progresses to higher levels, Melee controlling tends to work less and less well. I would worry that the player would start to feel like he isn't contributing.
No I have never seen it, but I would have to see this through many levels, and see how the game is ran before I became a fan of it also.
He started out with weapon finesse, TWF and exotic weapon proficiency: whip and did very well. We just reached 6th level and he is still doing quite well. Even against beasts that cannot be tripped, he still uses Dirty Trick from APG to blind them for a round. I do worry about later levels for him.
If you have a large enough party that will allow for one person to do nothing but control and the player is having fun then there is no problem.
If the game progresses to higher levels, Melee controlling tends to work less and less well. I would worry that the player would start to feel like he isn't contributing.
I've worried about that too. There are lots of situations where his tactics simply can't work.
1. Monster can't be tripped
2. Monster is too large to be tripped
3. Monster has no weapons and cannot be disarmed
4. Monster has no eyes or something like tremorsense so it cannot be blinded.
5. Monster such as oozes are immune to everything he can dish out.
Still, when any one of these options present themselves he is incredibly useful to the party. His role is completely that of support. He is looking at feats like greater trip and improved dirty trick for later levels and I have advised him that some monsters will be less than ideal opponents for him but that is the same for any martial character.
Investing in scorpion whips will let him damage without switching weapons.
The options from Dirty Trick should let him have an effect even against things that are immune to trip or disarm. I would easily allow a whip wielder to do any of the other options listed under dirty trick. The problem is more likely to come from the escalating CMD's of higher level monsters making it more difficult to pull off some of these manuevers.
I think its a fun interesting concept, similar to treantmonks controller bard option...
Investing in scorpion whips will let him damage without switching weapons.
What on Earth are scorpion whips? Can you cite me where they are located?
I remember whip daggers from an old 3rd edition D&D book. That was pretty cool.
We've talked about him doing damage but usually it has a much lesser contribution to the party's success that what he usually does.
Scorpion whips are whips with small blades woven into the tip. They deal lethal damage and appear in the Adventurers Armory and apparently the Legacy of Fire Player's Guide.
SRD Page
I tend to play character that act as controllers. Especially as NPC's. I play with a lot of newbies and people who could care less about rules and so they build a character on what looks cool. This is fine for the first few levels, but after that I have to nerf monsters or they die. So I have a habit of creating awesome NPC's. Never casters though. I don't like to outshine, but my optimized NPC usually keeps them alive without ever inflicting damage.
I would check out Tetori archetype (Ultimate Combat) or maneuver monk. If you don't like the spiritual "MONK" check out the martial artist. They are easily controllers without dishing out damage unless they desire (OR NEED) to. Tetori is great cause it can grapple against Freedom of Movement and even incorporal. Granted that's at extremely high levels, but its still there.
As a Player, I tend to optimize my and work with teams. Trip something let barbarian mess it up. I used to sunder alot, but they party got upset when I sundered a +5 Vorpal Longsword. I told them that's why wizards learn Make Whole and Mending...
I'm just wondering if anyone else has ever seen a martial controller that does no damage work or anything close to that and if you have any comments on his choice of character design.
I play a wizard like this, no damage but lots of control, especially with the Illusionist's Blinding Ray and spells like Grease (character is 3rd level).
I suggest as the monsters become more resilient to his special attacks that he carries some Tanglefoot Bags, Alchemists Fire, Flasks of Acid, Bag of Tricks etc.
I like this idea so much I am go to create this as an NPC to use against my players, who are all halflings btw. Mwhahahaahhaaaa.