Welcome to the Curse of the Crimson Throne OOC and Discussion thread!
To recap, this CotCT adventure path will follow the adventures of:
Chavakala, Human Oracle;
Yenrry Clockweaver, Halfling Bard;
Sister Milena Tag, Human Monk;
Gethric Orted, Halfling Rogue;
Vesera Arkona, Half-Elf Witch?;
Vyshiel Invisus, Half-Elf Wizard.
I have a couple of PbP-habits that you should be aware of. Feel free to contest them or ask questions if necessary:
First of all, in regards of skill checks, if you wish to use a skill, declare that you are using it, and do the necessary roll. As an example, if you decide to go carefully through the jungle, simply roll the perception check, instead of asking if you need to roll one. I will roll secret checks when necessary, and ask you if you have to do a roll, but help me save time by declaring and rolling as necessary.
Secondly, I ask that you follow this thread as much as the other one. This thread is named the OOC thread for a reason - please refrain from OOC-only posts in the IC thread.
Thirdly, whenever combat occurs, I will roll your initiatives, calculate the average of your values, and compare it to the enemies' initiative. Because PbP combat easily gets confusing, there won't be individual turns. Instead, you act on a group initiative, and when you post, you act (with "I wait for X to do his/her move before I do Y" if necessary for your actions to make sense). When all five of you have done your actions, the enemy acts as a group, round over, new round. Does this make sense?
In regards of skill checks and take 10s: the rules specify that the only skill you cannot Take 10 with is Use Magic Device. I, however, feel that this can break immersion in regards of Knowledge skills (since the DC is 10 for a large quantity of information - such as being able to identify every stone, mineral or metal; or identify every single dangerous construction; or identify somebody's ethnicity or accent; or know historically significant events...which means everybody with a 10 in int knows all of that...) and as such, you also cannot take 10 on Knowledge skills unless you have a rank in the knowledge skill.
Take 20 rules apply as usual.
Lastly, I may add other rules for how I wish you do certain things in regards of skill checks and the like. This will not be sprung on you without warning, however. Your opinions do matter to me, and I am here to make this an enjoyable experience.
Now, please keep in mind that this week might be busy for some of you; if any of you are attending Gen Con, I ask that you inform us posthaste.
Let us get to discuss the path in front of us!
Thanks for selecting me -- looking forward to it. Was a little worried that the similar backstories for Vesera and I would preclude us both being accepted - glad it didn't.
Also, I thought that was the case (the inability of taking 10 for knowledge skills), since bards get that ability as a class feature?
Anyhow, as I said, looking forward to it. :)
Hi and thanks for choosing me!
I will finish my char sheet up asap then.
And yes, it's Half-elf witch (because you made a ? behind it)
However there's a question to Chavakala, since she's the oracle, and therefore a divine caster.
How far will you specialise into the healing role? Would you clasify yourself as primary or secondary healer, or probably just "emergency heals only"?
I'm asking because it sort of depends how I finish up my witch. The concept I had in mind is a healer, with the healing patron, so I'm totally able to take on the primary healer/buffer role, but it would obviously make no sense to build two characters that focus on this.
Also, I thought that was the case (the inability of taking 10 for knowledge skills), since bards get that ability as a class feature?
I would agree with that.
The wording of the Bard "Lore Master" ability does not indicate they mean "in battle" or "always" like it's usually done, but simply that they can in the first place. That would indicate usually you can't take 10 on knowledge checks.However since DC 10 knowledge sort of is the "common knowledge" stuff, I'd say "Take 10 on DC 10 stuff is ok, as long as you have a rank in it, but for higher DC you have to roll" ... up to the GM of course.
Hello, and welcome!
With six of you, I will be ramping up the difficulty, so even if Chavakala decides to focus on healing, I would recommend you do so too to ... increase your chances of survival.
About Take 10s - the RAW doesn't say that you can't take 10 on Knowledge skills. I agree that the Lore Master class ability suggests this. But I have looked over the skills extensively, and have found no statement saying "You may not Take 10 with Knowledge skills." The only skill with such a clause is Use Magic Device.
So essentially, it is a kind of house rule, but one that makes sense. In my opinion, at least.
With six of you, I will be ramping up the difficulty, so even if Chavakala decides to focus on healing, I would recommend you do so too to ... increase your chances of survival.
True, but if for example Chavakala says she'll take the Restoration spells too, it might make sense to take a different patron.
With six of you, I will be ramping up the difficulty, so even if Chavakala decides to focus on healing, I would recommend you do so too to ... increase your chances of survival.
True, but if for example Chavakala says she'll take the Restoration spells too, it might make sense to take a different patron.
True. Chavakala should be posting later tonight, last I heard from her.
I realise I spelt your name wrong, Vyshael. I apologise.
Also, the reason both of you were selected, Vyshael and Vesera, is partially that I may allow you to share "spellbooks." Well, Vesera has a familiar, which is what technically makes this impossible, but I don't think it silly that you could at least teach each other spells.
...I have half a mind to suggest a romance based on that. *facedesk*
Also, the reason both of you were selected, Vyshael and Vesera, is partially that I may allow you to share "spellbooks." Well, Vesera has a familiar, which is what technically makes this impossible, but I don't think it silly that you could at least teach each other spells.
Well there would be the detour over making scrolls of course, which would be totally legal, if more expensive.
Also I think according to the magic item creation rule, Vyshael could have the feat and I provide the spell component, and then he scribes it.
Another thing I've been pondering (it won't come up for a while though), is Improved Familiar and how it works for witches. Since sending my familiar away or killing it, so i can summon an improved replacement is kinda sucky, since spellbook and all that.
But then the familiar for witches is not a slave like for wizards, it's more an extension of the force that provides her with her spells and magic. So would make some sense that this mystical force eventually decides "Oh, I won't be represented by a raven anymore, but now by a Pseudodragon", and it would actually keep the spells known.
Well as I said, won't be relevant for a long time, most likely not before level 7.
...I have half a mind to suggest a romance based on that. *facedesk*
Also we could have the same elven father after all :)
Oh one other thing:
Did the things that happened in the recruitment thread, the conversations taking place there and all, actually happen in the context of the game, or was that a "seperate reality?"
The drawback with treating the recruitment thread roleplay as canon is: why wouldn't all of you travel together to bring justice to Gaedren?
On the other hand, say you were to find Gaius's body (as he...morbidly requested)... well, actually, that'd be irrelevant, you'd just find a body with loot in that case.
Hullo, everyone. Thrilled to be selected. Thanks, Patcher.
I'm fine with all your PbP rules - they make sense to me.
I'm almost done with my character, just making some tweaks here and there. I think I'll go back to Halfling Luck instead of Craven as I'll primarily be focused on ranged combat and won't get the +1 flanking benefit very often. Other than that, I think I'm pretty good to go. Please let me know if you see anything else.
Oh, and Vesera, whatever you do in this game will affect Allia in the SS game. So act wisely. :)
Also, the reason both of you were selected, Vyshael and Vesera, is partially that I may allow you to share "spellbooks." Well, Vesera has a familiar, which is what technically makes this impossible, but I don't think it silly that you could at least teach each other spells.Well there would be the detour over making scrolls of course, which would be totally legal, if more expensive.
Also I think according to the magic item creation rule, Vyshael could have the feat and I provide the spell component, and then he scribes it.
In fact, I must have the feat, being a Wizard and all. ;) I'm all good with sharing - I'm sure we can work out a way to do it in each direction - at least in terms of spells we have prepared. But we'll figure it out.
...I have half a mind to suggest a romance based on that. *facedesk*Also we could have the same elven father after all :)
*laugh* As long as we don't find out *after*
Also - are you good with material from Halflings of Golarion? I'm looking at a couple of racial traits. Namely Master of Disguise.
Also - are you good with material from Halflings of Golarion? I'm looking at a couple of racial traits. Namely Master of Disguise.
Looking through Halflings of Golarion, I can't find the Master of Disguise racial trait.
Apologies. It's actually from the Adventurer's Armory and is called Augmented Disguise.
Apologies. It's actually from the Adventurer's Armory and is called Augmented Disguise.
How delightfully silly. I don't see a problem with it.
Thanks Patcher, still playing PFS, but wanted to check in here. Chavakala will be playing more of a battlefield control role (with color spray, etc.), but ok with secondary healer for sure. And if it looks like we're having trouble in that area, can start to skew it accordingly.
Dotting up. Thanks for the acceptance and looking forward to the game.
Will polish off the profile tonight for all content except the knife master archetype. I'll only be able to update that when UC is released on the fourth.
Oh and FYI - I am at GMT +8 in Malaysia.
In fact, I must have the feat, being a Wizard and all. ;) I'm all good with sharing - I'm sure we can work out a way to do it in each direction - at least in terms of spells we have prepared. But we'll figure it out.Well there would be the detour over making scrolls of course, which would be totally legal, if more expensive.
Also I think according to the magic item creation rule, Vyshael could have the feat and I provide the spell component, and then he scribes it.
Yes, I know you have it.
I was refering to this part:
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by 5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create potions, scrolls, staves, wands, or any other spell-trigger or spell-completion magic item without meeting its prerequisites.
You have the Scribe Scroll feat, and want to scribe the arcane version of Cure Light Wounds, and get access to it through me. You still couldn't cast it, or get it into your spellbook, because its not on your list, but I'd have it in scroll form then.
Pick a spell that I know and thats on your list, and afterwards you could transfer it into your book.Just saying thats the detour that will get expensive later on I guess. If the DM allows us to swap spells easier than that, maybe using the "copy spellbooks" rules or so, that wouldn't be necessary.
*laugh* As long as we don't find out *after*...I have half a mind to suggest a romance based on that. *facedesk*Also we could have the same elven father after all :)
Hihi, now that would be awkward :)
@Chavakala: Alright. I'm pretty sure I can handle it I think.
I am wondering however if I should pick up Potion Brewing. It's been nerfed recently and is limited to spells that I know and prepared, I can't just up the DC by +5 and make a potion of anything anymore.
I think I'll skip it for now and pick up Healing and Fortune for now, Cackle at next level.
I quite enjoy the Knife Master archetype personally - makes small rogues in particular shine.
Thanks Patcher! I'm thrilled to start.
I'll remove my application from the Jade Regent.
I have internet after all, but it will be a very busy week. I'll be around at the very least.
I'll make sure Milena is ready.
I agree with your rules!
EDIT: I checked and I built her with average gold instead of max. I'll get her more equipment when I get a chance. Ready to start though!
Also, looks like I'll be the one in front! Suggestions for survivability?
Also, looks like I'll be the one in front! Suggestions for survivability?
Hit the bad guys hard :)
Oh, and you and I already chatted about it, but I will be at Gen Con. Will still be trying to post, but might be a little tight, esp. Fri/Sat. Busy days.
Have started to update Gethric's profile with stats. Hope to have gear and appearance updated into there later tonight. Have to buy lots and lots of small bladed implements...
I can confirm also that I've reviewed the DM Patcher rules and have zero issues with them.
The party's makeup is quite intriguing. It will provide for very different dynamics! (I mean it in a positive way.)
I'm assuming this is primarily an Urban adventure, correct? Will we be doing anything with cost of living, jobs and such? And will we have a "base of operations" where I could keep things? Namely an 8-pound disguise kit that is putting me just over the "light" weight limit.
This is primarily an urban adventure, yes. Many parts of the adventure happen in rapid succession - but when you do catch a break, I would say the break is between a week and a month (if not more) - so you will have opportunities to craft, or make a living, or tend to families (if you have any alive...), generally, time to socialise and interact without death looming over your shoulder. If you wish to find some form of headquarters, whether it is you buy a house together or snatch an abandoned warehouse, I will of course accomodate this. In fact, I encourage this.
That's a good question actually.
Well my character has a urban background, so I selected urban skills mostly, that make sense for her. Knowledge (nature) or survival are just not part of that background. (Even though I could justify the knowledge with her work as herbalist) - typical even when I have 18 int, i still don't have enough skillpoints :)
In a similar line, will there be decent downtime at some points along the way, so there's actually time to craft things?
edit: hehe, ninja's by Patcher :)
I might not be able to take Cauldron Hex (and with it Brew Potion) till 3rd or possibly even 5th level though, so will be a while yet.
Would the Two World Magic trait be ok to use?
The fluff text indicates that it might be meant for people of the Mwangi Expanse. In my case I thought it might mean instead that during her time at the Academae she trained with Cantrips at first (which makes sense), and had learned one that's not on the witch's list before she got framed and kicked out.
The cantrip in question would be Prestidigitation
I don't see the harm in it. It's not like cantrips are gamebreaking either way.
You have the Scribe Scroll feat, and want to scribe the arcane version of Cure Light Wounds, and get access to it through me. You still couldn't cast it, or get it into your spellbook, because its not on your list, but I'd have it in scroll form then.
Pick a spell that I know and thats on your list, and afterwards you could transfer it into your book.
Oh, that. No, I was rather certain I was facing the limitations of my own spell list -- since I'm supposed to have the spell prepared in order to scribe it.
Just saying thats the detour that will get expensive later on I guess. If the DM allows us to swap spells easier than that, maybe using the "copy spellbooks" rules or so, that wouldn't be necessary.
Quite true - I imagine there's some similarity to the spell formulae, since you can learn from a scroll. If Patcher's willing to houserule something there, then that's great.
You have the Scribe Scroll feat, and want to scribe the arcane version of Cure Light Wounds, and get access to it through me. You still couldn't cast it, or get it into your spellbook, because its not on your list, but I'd have it in scroll form then.
Pick a spell that I know and thats on your list, and afterwards you could transfer it into your book.Oh, that. No, I was rather certain I was facing the limitations of my own spell list -- since I'm supposed to have the spell prepared in order to scribe it.
Usually that's the case.
But it does specifically state that you can have access to the spell through another spellcaster or even a magic item (wand or so). That part wouldn't make sense if you would still need to know the spell.Of course in this case, I would have to have the spell prepared and expend the spellslot when the scroll is scribed.
Well, I did suggest it, and I did mention I picked you both because of the potential synergy. I think we can simplify that process - so long as you roleplay the spell sharing.
That... sounds like a horrible euphemism.
As long as you, y'know, discuss it properly in character and spend the necessary time to "learn" each other's arcane language.
Or something.
For those that have early access to UC, does the Knife Master archetype grant access to any further weapon proficiencies? - or is it standard Rogue?
Re: Party Makeup - it is indeed a curious blend that we have, no out and out fighters among us... Should be fun :)
I could tear out the page of Vyshael's spellbook and burn it in the usual "learn from a scroll" ritual... even though I'm not sure that actually counts as "sharing" hehehe :)
But seriously now, I guess the familiar studying the spellbook for a while would make sense. The ritual to learn from a scroll or another familiar takes 1 hour per spell level, so I guess thats a good guideline there. Then the familiar knows the spell, and I can prepare it.
And the other way around, the familiar might whisper into Vyshael's ear the entire time while he scribbles down stuff, and in the end it's the spell. Probably might even work if the familiar can't actually talk, the arcane language is a funny thing.
That's just two examples I came up with on the spot, I'm sure when the time is right we'll figure something out.
Edit: Party makeup. Yes, it's unusual, with a monk and a rogue being the frontliners. I don't complain though, I think a monk is a quite capable fighter replacement.
For those that have early access to UC, does the Knife Master archetype grant access to any further weapon proficiencies? - or is it standard Rogue?
Re: Party Makeup - it is indeed a curious blend that we have, no out and out fighters among us... Should be fun :)
I see no mention of proficiencies in the Knife Master archetype, so normal Rogue proficiencies apply.
Re: Party Makeup - it was a small concern I had initially when selecting characters, but with Milena going monk/inquisitor (unless she decides to change her mind, which she is allowed to) she'll dish out the hurt, and the knife master archetype dishes out a lot of damage if given a flanking partner (so I hope you all co-operate in combat). Yenrry will give great buffs, and the three casters are all great support, so while we don't have a full BAB class, I don't think it'll pose a major problem.
There are always ways to buff your attack rolls.
Speaking of which, Natural 1 and Natural 20; I don't run fumble rules. Natural 1s are automatic misses, no more. Natural 1s on skills are not automatic failures (but with some checks, failing by 5 or more have consequences). I am considering some house rules for Natural 20s - tell me what you think of the following suggestions:
1: Natural 20 (only) is an automatic crit, with no need to roll confirmation rolls. Other threat ranges require one.
The reason for this suggestion is that Natural 20s usually give that fuzzy feeling and excitement of a crit - and it always sucks to have it snatched away because the dice bot (or dice god) decided to psych you.
2: Natural 20 is a critical threat; regardless of whether or not you confirm the crit, you always deal maximum damage on one dice.
I saw this suggestion in a thread here on the Paizo forums; it gives a clear advantage of rolling a natural 20, by guaranteeing that you deal a considerable amount of damage.
2: Natural 20 is a critical threat; regardless of whether or not you confirm the crit, you always deal maximum damage on one dice.
I saw this suggestion in a thread here on the Paizo forums; it gives a clear advantage of rolling a natural 20, by guaranteeing that you deal a considerable amount of damage.
What does "on one dice" mean?
You roll a nat 20 with a greataxe, so the 1d12 damage is automatically 12, so far that seems clear.
What if you'd use a greatsword with 2d6 damage? Both are 6s or just 1 and the other gets rolled?
2: Natural 20 is a critical threat; regardless of whether or not you confirm the crit, you always deal maximum damage on one dice.
I saw this suggestion in a thread here on the Paizo forums; it gives a clear advantage of rolling a natural 20, by guaranteeing that you deal a considerable amount of damage.
What does "on one dice" mean?
You roll a nat 20 with a greataxe, so the 1d12 damage is automatically 12, so far that seems clear.
What if you'd use a greatsword with 2d6 damage? Both are 6s or just 1 and the other gets rolled?
I'm not certain. As I said, I saw this rule here on the forums.
I am considering some house rules for Natural 20s - tell me what you think of the following suggestions:
1: Natural 20 (only) is an automatic crit, with no need to roll confirmation rolls. Other threat ranges require one.
The reason for this suggestion is that Natural 20s usually give that fuzzy feeling and excitement of a crit - and it always sucks to have it snatched away because the dice bot (or dice god) decided to psych you.
2: Natural 20 is a critical threat; regardless of whether or not you confirm the crit, you always deal maximum damage on one dice.
The first one seems very powerful and would certainly have a lot more people using Scythes, Picks and the like. The second one is good, but might still be pretty tough -- a watered down (but still good) way to handle it might be roll damage twice and take the best one?
Hmm, I was going to say both sound good to me, but Vyshael makes 2 good points.
The auto confirm combined with a x4 weapon might be devestating - even though who of us can even use those weapons? Monk is restricted to monk weapons if they want to flurry, rogue and bard gets only a limited selection of martial weapons, and the rest of us are more caster than melee.
Also I guess the same rules apply to enemies against us, so keep that in mind.
Hmm, I was going to say both sound good to me, but Vyshael makes 2 good points.
The auto confirm combined with a x4 weapon might be devestating - even though who of us can even use those weapons? Monk is restricted to monk weapons if they want to flurry, rogue and bard gets only a limited selection of martial weapons, and the rest of us are more caster than melee.
Also I guess the same rules apply to enemies against us, so keep that in mind.
Well, purely mechanically, both of the party's half-elves could by using the Ancestral Arms racial trait -- so, for example, I could be proficient in a x4 weapon instead of my mother's sword. (However, that would mess up the whole story of me...and be rather powerful cheesy) I'm more worried about suffering a x4 (or even auto x3) with my wee little wizard hit die.
Well, they're only suggestions that reward 20s while speeding up play ever so slightly. If I wanted to enforce them I would. But you are my players, and if you prefer to play with 20s as they currently are, that's fine with me.
Thanks for the clarification on Knife Master profs - looks like I'm stocking up on vanilla flavoured daggers :)
Re: Crit rules - I'm not too fussed either way, so will cede to the majority.
Well, purely mechanically, both of the party's half-elves could by using the Ancestral Arms racial trait -- so, for example, I could be proficient in a x4 weapon instead of my mother's sword. (However, that would mess up the whole story of me...and be rather powerful cheesy) I'm more worried about suffering a x4 (or even auto x3) with my wee little wizard hit die.
True, but aside from our pityful d6 hitdice and our non existent armor we also have 1/2 BAB progression. So going into melee would be pretty much suicidal.
Not to mention that it would completely clash with my background.So yes, technically we could wield it. Technically the rogue or bard could spend their 1st level feat on it too. Or heck, you could wield it without proficiency and accept the -4 penalty, if you speculate on nat 20s :)
I won't say I like it or not, as it really doesn't affect me a whole lot. So I'll leave the decission to those that use weapons.
I'm good trying the auto confirm on a 20, but the max damage on a die (or two) seems like a lot. So, my vote goes for just the auto confirm or traditional rules.
Apologies for my general inactivity today - hasn't been a good day for me, the summer heat decided to come crashing and heat in general incapacitates me. You'd think living in the Arctic circle would consist of perpetual winter...
So what does summer heat even mean int arctic circle? A balmy 72 degrees?
Ah no problem, I'm sort of used to the fact that PbP games slow down on weekends.
I'm not done with my sheet yet anyway, a preliminary one is in my profile, but still working on it. Most stuff is done though, so if you're just waiting for me to start, I guess thats possible.
So what does summer heat even mean int arctic circle? A balmy 72 degrees?
80 degrees fahrenheit, give or take. Which probably is nothing for many of you, but I'm used to 60 and less.
I was just reading through this thread: What house rules do Paizo game designers play with? and Sean K Reynolds posted an interesting houserule he uses.
steps-based level advancement system
Just thought I mention it here, since I thought it's actually a pretty cool idea.
Yeah, I've seen it before, and I also think it's a good idea. Especially for PbPs where things may go rather slowly, and that level always seems to far away (my impression).
Truth be told, if you all want me to run with that system I'd be happy to do so.
I'm certainly open to trying it. I think I read about a similar idea once in Kobold Quarterly. It would be really interesting in PFS where the XP system would map quite well to it.
Toasty in Chicago today, but nothing compared to Nashville where we're moving from.