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The Heighten Spell feat, the way it is worded, seems to change everything to a higher level, not just save DCs of a spell. Is that correct?
Example: The Wizard subschool of Necromancy - "Life" - allows the wizard to heal targets of his or her spells hit points equal to the level of the spell. So if, say, a haste spell is heightened to 5th level, would it heal 5 hit points of damage rather than 3?
It raises the actual spell level so haste would heal 5.
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It raises the actual spell level so haste would heal 5.
That is my thinking as well. However, I'm having a debate with someone, and they think the wording on Heighten spell is a bit unclear with this situaion. He seems to think the 'effective' level of the spell would be for considerations of DCs and other spell perameters, but wouldn't actually make the spell a higher level (say, for the purposes of the Life Subschool).
Is there any way to get feedback from an official source on this rule? I know they sometimes post here...I'm looking for something to show my friend, as support to this rule.
Heighten is weird.
He seems to think the 'effective' level of the spell would be for considerations of DCs and other spell perameters, but wouldn't actually make the spell a higher level (say, for the purposes of the Life Subschool).
Heighten Spell: "All effects dependent on spell level are calculated according to the heightened level."
Healing Grace (Su): "Whenever you cast a spell that has targets, affects creatures in an area, or requires an attack roll, you may heal creatures affected by the spell a total of 1 point of damage per level of the spell."
So, is Healing Grace dependent on spell level? Yes. The effect of Healing Grace is dependent on the level of the spell. Thus, it is calculated according to the heightened level.
Heighten spell doesn't really change a spell parameters at all, it changes how everything else interacts with the spell.
Taking that into account it would be weird to make specific exceptions, a spell heightened to level 5 would penetrate a globe of invulnerability, which is a similar niche case like the life school ability.
Also I do not really see why it wouldnt be allowed, a meta magiced spell is by default inferior to an actual spell of a similar spell slot
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...Also I do not really see why it wouldnt be allowed, a meta magiced spell is by default inferior to an actual spell of a similar spell slot
All depends on what you heighten, and why.
Such as if you heighten a cantrip to 1st level (but still a cantrip slot with the 'Magical Lineage' trait), that allows you to cast a 1st level spell at will. Now what you DO with that 1st level spell...
...Also I do not really see why it wouldnt be allowed, a meta magiced spell is by default inferior to an actual spell of a similar spell slotAll depends on what you heighten, and why.
Such as if you heighten a cantrip to 1st level (but still a cantrip slot with the 'Magical Lineage' trait), that allows you to cast a 1st level spell at will. Now what you DO with that 1st level spell...
not according to the devs, neither would I allow it even with the devs saying otherwise. A cantrip that gets metamagiced uses a higher level slot and can't be cast at will.
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...Also I do not really see why it wouldnt be allowed, a meta magiced spell is by default inferior to an actual spell of a similar spell slotAll depends on what you heighten, and why.
Such as if you heighten a cantrip to 1st level (but still a cantrip slot with the 'Magical Lineage' trait), that allows you to cast a 1st level spell at will. Now what you DO with that 1st level spell...
not according to the devs, neither would I allow it even with the devs saying otherwise. A cantrip that gets metamagiced uses a higher level slot and can't be cast at will.
There are metamagic feats that don't raise the spell's spell level slot...such as merciful spell (+0 increase). So your position is, then, that if you apply merciful spell to a cantrip, that raises the spell level? Or makes it so that you can't cast the spell at will?
What is "not according to the devs"? And where is this? I would like to read it.
No, I mean if you raise the spell level with metamagic it will burn the slot when you cast it so you can not cast it at will.
I do not know where I read it on these forums though admitedly it was probably a post by James Jacobs, he tends to say how he would rule things and not necesarily a hard rule change.
I will try find it though, my search-fu isn't strong with me though...
Found it, Jason Buhlman and James JAcobs actually said it is so, so it is a 'hard' rule afterall.
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/rules/aLittleGemAbout0LevelSpells27x7c&page=5
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No, I mean if you raise the spell level with metamagic it will burn the slot when you cast it so you can not cast it at will.
But the Magical Lineage trait from the APG allows you to prepare a metamagicked spell in a slot one level lower than you would otherwise. From the SRD:
"Benefit: Pick one spell when you choose this trait. When you apply metamagic feats to this spell, treat its actual level as 1 lower for determining the spell’s final adjusted level."
Therefore, if you chose message as your Magical Lineage spell, then use Heighten Spell for one level on it, you can prepare and cast it out of a 0-level slot even though all its effects are as from a 1st-level spell, including how much healing it provides from the Life sub-school.
Since it's prepared as a 0-level spell (aka cantrip), you can cast it at will, and heal 1 point of damage, per round, at will.
I'm not happy about it, personally, but I think it's (barely) valid under the RAW (although almost certainly not RAI).