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The Core book indicates that you could, theoretically at least, intentionally make a cursed item. What is the cost of doing so? Do you use the cost of one of the standard items to determine this? Is there an alternative cost?
Core wasn't particularly clear on that aspect. I kind of want to make a Scarab of Death for use with Beguiling Gift.
I also was trying to figure out exactly how this works, as I want to make a Witch focused on the Beguiling Gift spell, with those, Apple of Eternal Sleep, Philter of Love, etc...
clarification would be awesome.
Presumably, if the object is cursed intentionally the cost would be the same as making an uncursed version of it.
problem is a cursed item can appear to be as any number of highly expensive and not so expensive things. Ring of sustenance (cursed) and ring of three wishes (cursed) could actually have the same curse.
Presumably, if the object is cursed intentionally the cost would be the same as making an uncursed version of it.problem is a cursed item can appear to be as any number of highly expensive and not so expensive things. Ring of sustenance (cursed) and ring of three wishes (cursed) could actually have the same curse.
Exactly my problem. Really, though, is it just assumed that if you're going to intentionally mess something up to make a cursed item, you just need to buy materials for the cheapest of the items to mess up? I have my doubts.
Scarab of Death, for example, is worth FAR more in the hands of an intelligent player (or devious NPC) than most of the possible items that could source it. Honestly, a Reflex DC 25 save or die is pretty sweet, especially when you hand it to people in a small wooden box with Beguiling Gift (or a Bluff check).
I've wanted a necklace of strangulation forever. It's an assassins best friend.
I've wanted a necklace of strangulation forever. It's an assassins best friend.
It's only good if you have someone else around to cast Decompose Corpse, though...or if you build a pyre. It won't release until the remains are skeletonized.
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I don't believe you can intentionally create a cursed item. Otherwise there would be a great black market trade in Dust of Sneezing and Choking, which is pretty much an auto kill on most groups.
I don't believe you can intentionally create a cursed item. Otherwise there would be a great black market trade in Dust of Sneezing and Choking, which is pretty much an auto kill on most groups.
I would agree with you if not for two factors:
1. The APG has a paragraph indicating that you can intentionally create them (it's roughly the 1st or 2nd sentence in the Cursed Item section).
2. The CIs have CLs, meaning they have a Craft DC (5+CL). The CLs do not match up universally with any given normal item from which they may be created.
On a totally unrelated note, if you repeatedly obtained and wielded items with the size change minor curse and increased your size by, say, your base height, does that mean you increase a size category in the process?
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The Core book indicates that you could, theoretically at least, intentionally make a cursed item. What is the cost of doing so? Do you use the cost of one of the standard items to determine this? Is there an alternative cost?
Events that "almost never" happen (core rulebook, p. 536) don't necessarily follow the standard rules available to players. Cursed items have no listed costs or construction specs. At minimum, I believe the designer would have to set the costs and requirements from scratch as a new magic item.
Well this is no official rule of course, but depending on the item you want to make, I'd say find an item with a similar effect, or a spell with a similar effect and then use that as a base for pricing.
So for the Scarab of Death for example, use a safe or die spell and use the normal wonderous item craft prices for it.
Instead of the normal effect for the spell, you get the cursed item, if you want.
But that's all up to the DM if he allows it for you.
Easy. Intentionally pick an item with a DC too high to reach with your skill mods +10 and then take 10. Do your math right and you are guaranteed to fail by 5 or more, creating a cursed item. Use identify to find out what monster you've created and repeat until you have an effect you like (or dislike, as the case may be).
BTW, my favorite will always be the Girdle of Opposite Gender. Played alongside a Bard once who would put enemies to sleep then genderswap them.
Easy. Intentionally pick an item with a DC too high to reach with your skill mods +10 and then take 10. Do your math right and you are guaranteed to fail by 5 or more, creating a cursed item. Use identify to find out what monster you've created and repeat until you have an effect you like (or dislike, as the case may be).
BTW, my favorite will always be the Girdle of Opposite Gender. Played alongside a Bard once who would put enemies to sleep then genderswap them.
If this method of crafting is the intended one, why do the cursed items have listed CLs? This means they have intended craft DCs.
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If this method of crafting is the intended one, why do the cursed items have listed CLs? This means they have intended craft DCs.Easy. Intentionally pick an item with a DC too high to reach with your skill mods +10 and then take 10. Do your math right and you are guaranteed to fail by 5 or more, creating a cursed item. Use identify to find out what monster you've created and repeat until you have an effect you like (or dislike, as the case may be).
BTW, my favorite will always be the Girdle of Opposite Gender. Played alongside a Bard once who would put enemies to sleep then genderswap them.
Not necessarily. They also need CLs to define, among other things, the aura they present to detect magic.
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There is no reason you could not create an item that mimics the effects of a cursed item, BUT the cost could get pretty expensive depending on the effects.
Note that this would not be the same as making an attempt to create an item and failing to the point of accidentally creating a cursed item. for an accidental creation, the costs would be those of the intended item.
Additionally, I have never understood why the CL for an accidentally cursed item would be different from that of the intended item. Remember, the CL is also a requirement for creator's caster level, as the creator's caster level for all items except wands, scrolls and potions, must be at least equal to the item's CL.
That said, apparently a ring of clumsiness (based off a ring of feather fall which has a CL of 1) can only be created when a 15th level or higher caster fails at creating a ring of feather fall.
It would make more sense that a cursed item would have the same aura and CL of the intended item. If you are attempting to make a very minor item with a faint aura and when you finish it it has a strong aura, you pretty well know the item is cursed without having to identify it. Additionally, if you find an item and the aura it gives off is strong, but then you identify it as a lower power item (that should have a faint aura), again you know that it's most likely cursed even with a failed identification check. Makes no sense.
I guess the only way I could see to handle it would be to make them as a standard magic item using the closest appropriate spell.
For instance, maybe disintegrate or finger of death for the scarab of death.
Use activated, wonderous item, etc.
Many cursed items have prices and spell prereqs in the 3.5 SRD.
The scarab of death has a market price of 80,000 gp and requires Craft Wondrous Item and slay living.
There is no reason you could not create an item that mimics the effects of a cursed item, BUT the cost could get pretty expensive depending on the effects.
Note that this would not be the same as making an attempt to create an item and failing to the point of accidentally creating a cursed item. for an accidental creation, the costs would be those of the intended item.
Additionally, I have never understood why the CL for an accidentally cursed item would be different from that of the intended item. Remember, the CL is also a requirement for creator's caster level, as the creator's caster level for all items except wands, scrolls and potions, must be at least equal to the item's CL.
That said, apparently a ring of clumsiness (based off a ring of feather fall which has a CL of 1) can only be created when a 15th level or higher caster fails at creating a ring of feather fall.
It would make more sense that a cursed item would have the same aura and CL of the intended item. If you are attempting to make a very minor item with a faint aura and when you finish it it has a strong aura, you pretty well know the item is cursed without having to identify it. Additionally, if you find an item and the aura it gives off is strong, but then you identify it as a lower power item (that should have a faint aura), again you know that it's most likely cursed even with a failed identification check. Makes no sense.
Of course, an unscrupulous wizard could earn quite a bit more from selling a ring with a CL of 15 than a CL of 1.
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Of course, an unscrupulous wizard could earn quite a bit more from selling a ring with a CL of 15 than a CL of 1.
Sure, but that doesn not address the initial question. Why would a cursed item that was accidentally created have a CL higher than (or lower than) the CL of the intended item, especially since the cursed item ends up showing as the intended item on a successful Spellcraft check that does not succeed by 10 or more.
Additionally, what happens when a lower level caster fails at making a ring of feather fall? Since they would not have the required CL for the end result to be a ring of clumsiness, would the result just be a random result of cursed properties form the charts? Or is the CL of a cursed item not tied into the creator's caster level as a requirement of creation (which seems kinda bogus)?
Additionally, I have never understood why the CL for an accidentally cursed item would be different from that of the intended item. Remember, the CL is also a requirement for creator's caster level, as the creator's caster level for all items except wands, scrolls and potions, must be at least equal to the item's CL.
That's not correct, unless the CL is specifically mentioned in the requirements.
CL of an item influences the strength of the magical aura, I guess that's why most items have one, even if its not a requirement to make it.
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Additionally, I have never understood why the CL for an accidentally cursed item would be different from that of the intended item. Remember, the CL is also a requirement for creator's caster level, as the creator's caster level for all items except wands, scrolls and potions, must be at least equal to the item's CL.That's not correct, unless the CL is specifically mentioned in the requirements.
CL of an item influences the strength of the magical aura, I guess that's why most items have one, even if its not a requirement to make it.
d'oh! Forgot the errata for the 1st printing Core lists the same thing.
Still the point of varied CL from the intended item holds as it becomes increasingly easy to spot a cursed item without actually having to successfully identify the item (as a cursed item that is) due to change in Aura strength from increased or decreased CL. If you cast detect magic, see a strong aura and identify the item as a weaker item, then you defeat the needed identify check window simply by identifying it as what it was supposed to be.
Basically it creates a loophole to the problem of correctly identifying a cursed item.
If the CL of the cursed item is identical to the intended item, however, the mechanic to make it more difficult to identify cursed items correctly remains intact.
True, it allows you to spot cursed items a bit easier, but first you would need to know what it was supposed to be in the first place, right?
Sure if you're the crafter you'd want to know if it was a success or not (but honestly most crafters can't even fail that check by 5 or more unless they do it deliberately).
Not all cursed items have different CL, so if the aura matches... did you suceed or is it a cursed item with same CL? So you have to identify it anyway.
And for loot... If you pick up a belt, do you know if its a belt of giant's strength (CL 8) or a belt of physical perfection (Cl 16) without identify int he first place?
So, if you detect magic on it, it won't really help you. You could say "Ok it can't be a physical perfection belt" but that doesn't necessarily mean "It's a belt of gender changing".
If this method of crafting is the intended one, why do the cursed items have listed CLs? This means they have intended craft DCs.
Oh, it's not the intended way at all. The rule is intended to be a risk at item creation to penalize overeager crafters. I was just pointing out that you can engineer that penalty if your specific goal is a cursed item and not have to go through the hassle of pricing the currently un-priced cursed items. Or, as Thelemic_Noun said, just use the 3.5 rules.
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True, it allows you to spot cursed items a bit easier, but first you would need to know what it was supposed to be in the first place, right?
Sure if you're the crafter you'd want to know if it was a success or not (but honestly most crafters can't even fail that check by 5 or more unless they do it deliberately).
Not all cursed items have different CL, so if the aura matches... did you suceed or is it a cursed item with same CL? So you have to identify it anyway.And for loot... If you pick up a belt, do you know if its a belt of giant's strength (CL 8) or a belt of physical perfection (Cl 16) without identify int he first place?
So, if you detect magic on it, it won't really help you. You could say "Ok it can't be a physical perfection belt" but that doesn't necessarily mean "It's a belt of gender changing".
Right, but if you succeed on your identify (but do not exceed the check by 10 or more) on a found amulet and determine it is say an amulet of natural armor (which would radiate a faint transmutation aura) but it had a strong aura of transmutation, you know you have a cursed item on your hands.
I'm just saying in many, if not most cases, of encountering a cursed item, it nerfs the mechanic of making a cursed item more difficult to spot.
EDIT: Also, if you do have a success in the 0-9 point window before determining it is cursed, then you do know what it was supposed to be. An ioun stone which has a faint aura is nothing but trouble. ;)
Right, but if you succeed on your identify (but do not exceed the check by 10 or more) on a found amulet and determine it is say an amulet of natural armor (which would radiate a faint transmutation aura) but it had a strong aura of transmutation, you know you have a cursed item on your hands.I'm just saying in many, if not most cases, of encountering a cursed item, it nerfs the mechanic of making a cursed item more difficult to spot.
EDIT: Also, if you do have a success in the 0-9 point window before determining it is cursed, then you do know what it was supposed to be. An ioun stone which has a faint aura is nothing but trouble. ;)
But that's not necessarily true. Unless the player has all of the items memorized, he or she wouldn't know unless the GM said the aura was unusually powerful. And even if so, the amulet could have been made at a higher than normal caster level, or have more than one power in it that the PC didn't catch at first.
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But that's not necessarily true. Unless the player has all of the items memorized, he or she wouldn't know unless the GM said the aura was unusually powerful. And even if so, the amulet could have been made at a higher than normal caster level, or have more than one power in it that the PC didn't catch at first.
Right, but if you succeed on your identify (but do not exceed the check by 10 or more) on a found amulet and determine it is say an amulet of natural armor (which would radiate a faint transmutation aura) but it had a strong aura of transmutation, you know you have a cursed item on your hands.I'm just saying in many, if not most cases, of encountering a cursed item, it nerfs the mechanic of making a cursed item more difficult to spot.
EDIT: Also, if you do have a success in the 0-9 point window before determining it is cursed, then you do know what it was supposed to be. An ioun stone which has a faint aura is nothing but trouble. ;)
The only items that can be made at a higher caster level are potions, scrolls and wands. All other items have a set CL.
When you cast detect magic you get the level and type of aura and as it takes three rounds to identify an item using the spell, you would know the strength and (if you make a successful Knowledge(Arcana) check) the school as well.
Now, granted you must make the Knowledge check, but a 1st level Wizard with 1 rank in the skill and even a +2 INT modifier has a base +6 to the check. With the check being 15+1/2 CL, You're still looking at about a 50/50 shot for most items you'd find at first level. If the PC is an elf, it becomes a +8. If you have skill focus for that skill, you're looking at a +11 modifier with a 14/15 INT at 1st level.
Use identify instead and you are at a +21 modifier at 1st level, meaning a 1st level wizard could feasibly pick out the auras of a CL 14 item on a roll of a 1. This may not be good enough to actually identify the item, but you would certainly know the strength and type of aura.
As to having more than one power that you don't pick up on, that's not the way identification works. If you make your needed roll, you identify the item's properties, not most of or some of the properties. Cursed items are the exception, giving the possibility for a false positive.
Ancient thread but very topical for me...nothing like checking the archive, but it looks like this went nowhere. I've come across this with the Ring of Lifebleed which is even more obvious as you would identify it as necro school using arcana, ask your cleric friend if that is what regeneration spells are, then getting a surprised look you would know something is up-and of course you might also assume that wizard apprentice 101 is knowing that all healing spells were from the conjuration school, but....the whole level and such determination is a give away as well more to an expert (read:buyer paying their resident wizard/bard/witch to do some identifications) than perhaps to the run of the mill lower level caster but would still stop things in their tracks-and possibly require buying an analyze dweomer before a sale.