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If I got a composite bow, say with a +2 strength rating, can I have a player, via using a craft bow skill, modify an existing bow to a +4 rating?
I figure you'd simply just use the price difference of a +4 vs +2 bow in terms of the crafting rules.
If not why?
If so why?
By RAW, this doesn't work - composite bows are built from scratch to accommodate a user of a certain strength, and attempting to modify it afterwards would probably destroy the weapon.
However, Pathfinder Society Rules allow you to do it as you've suggested.
As for my personal opinion, I'd go with the latter - it's a game, after all, and there's no sense restricting the player from doing so, especially if they've picked up the relevant skills.
Depends on how realistic you want to get. A Composite bow is made of multiple layers of various materials to get the flexibility that grants the extra strength bonus. There was a 3.5 book I think that went into details of the various materials needed for various strength ratings (dragon sinew, trapper glue, other ultra-rare and expensive stuff to get +5). You could possibly deconstruct the bow and then recreate it, but it would be a lengthy process and expensive as heck. Then again, it's a fantasy game and it could maybe be the special trick that certain bowyers know to make money.
This question's about an hierloom trait weapon isn't it?
Why would this even matter at all if it is or isnt the question is still relevent.
a composite bow got it's name because you glue a series of layers together. hence the term "composite". in the real world, you can increase the strength of the draw by simply glueing more layers and refitting the string, the draw and the rest. but the process would be much more difficult than crafting a new bow.
By RAW, this doesn't work...
I think it would be more accurate to say that the RAW is silent on this issue.
I think it is better to say it doesn't work. You can't go back and make a weapon into a masterwork weapon. I see no way to suddenly made one weapon into a different weapon here either.
I'm in the opposite school since the rules state you can't add masterwork I would assume the lack of such a statement allows a composite to be reforged.
Since we are talking about a non magical bow the cost isn't high, so simply sell your current bow and go and buy one that's just like you want it.
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Not so much an heirloom as it is lack of time. The bow in question is a darkwood masterwork bow. The way the campaign has been going, there's been extremely limited time, so our characters haven't had much opportunity to make our own items.
Buildiing a new bow from scratch is going to take a heck of a longer time than modifying an existing bow, and I don't know how much of a challenge the DM is going to make it to find more darkwood.
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I'm no expert in bowmaking, but I figure from what I've read that I could at least recycle the darkwood given that a lot of making a composite bow is about gluing it together. I'd have no problem simply being told I got to make it from scratch and buy the stuff, but I figure the DM's going to put some added restriction that I won't even be able to get the darkwood, or have the time to build it.
Hang on - why are you worrying about availability of darkwood for a composite bow? The bowstave is only partially made of wood, so it gets no mechanical benefit for using darkwood. edit: Come to think of it, a bow is a really misleading example of a darkwood item.
Let's use this as an example:
My character in a Kingmaker campaign gets the Stag Lords composite longbow (+1/+2 Strength) only problem is my character has an 18 Strength. So I have the option of NEVER using the bow at my full strength or selling it at 50% it's price and having one made that would be at a +4 strength bonus for a net loss of 1500 gp's.
Later my character comes across a Belt of Giant Strength +4. So now I'm faced with the same options, never use the bow to my full potential or sell it again for a net loss of 1600 gp's and have another bow built for my current Strength.
So tell me again why would a Ranger ever take the Archery path again?
So tell me again why would a Ranger ever take the Archery path again?
Because it's one of the most powerful builds in the game? Or if you want an IC reason, because it's one of the most versatile and effective means of combat available?
Doesn't matter what the class is, but the Ranger get's a bonus in that he gets certain feats without meeting prereqs.
OK, that last little bit was snark, but you completely missed the point of the rest of the post. A Ranger (or any other archer build) will have to shell out thousands of gold just to keep on the top of his game if he is unable to upgrade his existing bow.
Just add pulleys.
OK, that last little bit was snark, but you completely missed the point of the rest of the post. A Ranger (or any other archer build) will have to shell out thousands of gold just to keep on the top of his game if he is unable to upgrade his existing bow.
I didn't miss it, I just didn't think it really needed to be commented on, but if you insist.
It's no different from a magus who spends money on light armor at 1st to 7th level, then has to toss it and buy new armor if he wants to upgrade when he can wear heavier armor.
It's no different than any character who buys a piece of equipment at 5th level and then at 10th it's no longer needed, so he has to sell it and replace it with something else.
It's no different than a fighter who has a plate mail he's been using and upgrading for 8 levels now, and he get's a +6 dex belt. Now he can't hit his max dex with the armor, even with armor training, so he has to get rid of it and buy a more expensive set of mithral full plate to get his full dex bonus to armor.
In other words, it's no different than anyone else who has equipment that got outdated and needs to replace it.
@Vanulf Wulfson
I know what you mean, i realised it when i played a ranger (a switch hitter one) in the Kingmaker AP. It costed me a lot of money upgrading my bow but i found a way around it.
First of all this ranger was a switch hitter so archery wasn't the only thing i could do, and second i didn't upgrade my bow everytime my STR modifier increased, for example at 13th level my STR mod had increased by 1 but i didn't changed my bow because i calculated that in 3 levels (16th) my STR mod would increase by another 2 (higher STR belt, odd increase to STR and a tome +1 STR) so i chose to have a decreased damage for 3 levels in order to have the money to bring my damage to maximum at the 16th level. The thing is that because the particular AP had a bad tendancy of not giving bows with more than +3 STR (in fact iirc there were only 4 bows with any STR) i had to change my bow 3 times (actually 4 but the money of the first time were very low since it was non-magical).
Anyway the way i see it is that this is a price i had to pay in order to get the advantages of archery.
In other words, it's no different than anyone else who has equipment that got outdated and needs to replace it.
No there is a difference because if there is the allowed time you can always have your weapons and gear upgraded instead of replaced.
By upgraded i mean having them further enchanted either by a party member who has the relevant crafting feat or if there is enough time to simply go to the crafter and have him upgrade your equipment (of course this way can take a lot of time because the crafter is most probably that it won't be able to make your item in the minimum time because of previous orders/work in progress etc.)
In other words, it's no different than anyone else who has equipment that got outdated and needs to replace it.No there is a difference because if there is the allowed time you can always have your weapons and gear upgraded instead of replaced.
By upgraded i mean having them further enchanted either by a party member who has the relevant crafting feat or if there is enough time to simply go to the crafter and have him upgrade your equipment (of course this way can take a lot of time because the crafter is most probably that it won't be able to make your item in the minimum time because of previous orders/work in progress etc.)
You accused me of ignoring your post, but you appear to have ignored mine.
You cannot upgrade light armor to heavy armor.
You cannot upgrade Steel Full Plate to Mithral Full Plate.
You cannot upgrade a long sword into a falcata.
In other words, it's no different than anyone else who has equipment that got outdated and needs to replace it.No there is a difference because if there is the allowed time you can always have your weapons and gear upgraded instead of replaced.
By upgraded i mean having them further enchanted either by a party member who has the relevant crafting feat or if there is enough time to simply go to the crafter and have him upgrade your equipment (of course this way can take a lot of time because the crafter is most probably that it won't be able to make your item in the minimum time because of previous orders/work in progress etc.)You accused me of ignoring your post, but you appear to have ignored mine.
You cannot upgrade light armor to heavy armor.
You cannot upgrade Steel Full Plate to Mithral Full Plate.
You cannot upgrade a long sword into a falcata.
Ok first of all when did i accuse you of ignoring my post?
And yes you are correct on the above examples you are correct but everything else (cloak of resistance, belt of, heaadband of etc.) can be upgraded, and so can a +1 armor become a +2 armor.The upgrading a longsword into a falcata isn't a good example for the discussion at hand because you can upgrade your +1 longsword to a +2 longsword (if there is time) but you can't upgrade a composite bow with a +4 STR to a +5 STR, that means that you have to change your weapon in order to become better at what you do when at the same time the melee guy could just upgrade it.